Development of junior batsmen

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Law himself played in a golden era of Australian cricket, in which the pressure for places was so intense that he managed to feature in just a solitary Test, as an injury replacement for Steve Waugh against Sri Lanka in 1995-96, and 54 ODIs.

And part of the reason for that surfeit of international-quality players, Law believes, is the education that his generation was given during their early days in grade cricket, when they would be rubbing shoulders with Test stars on a weekly basis.

"Australia have got the talent, they've just lost track of what's important," he said. "That was always the case when I started playing grade cricket in Brisbane. I was a 15-year old sharing the dressing room with Allan Border, Greg Ritchie, Kepler Wessels. That doesn't happen much anymore.

"The Test players don't play club cricket much once they are away from Test duties. They are wrapped up in cotton wool and put away, whereas kids coming through learn from guys who've done it before."
http://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_...s-lessons-boost-australian-cricket-stuart-law
 

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western royboy

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Patterson not identified as ‘Talent’ according to Greg Chappell?

Our selectors are like the reverse of moneyball, pick guys based on supposed hunches about technique/being a good bloke/having a hot girlfriend etc
Greg Chappell is 100% cooked and I say that as a devotee of his for a long time - he’s thrown away everything he believed in for a pay cheque to the detriment of the game and his status in it - he and Hohns need to be retired
 
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What is the purpose of selecting the test squad so early?

Only creates possibility of egg on face.

Are there ICC rules that govern when squads must be announced?
 

Blue1980

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Greg Chappell is 100% cooked and I say that as a devotee of his for a long time - he’s thrown away everything he believed in for a pay cheque to the detriment of the game and his status in it - he and Hohns need to be retired
100% agree, many people simply pass their use by date in certain roles.

Hohns constantly contradicting himself seems to me like he simply doesn’t care anymore.
 

Howard Littlejohn

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What is the purpose of selecting the test squad so early?

Only creates possibility of egg on face.

Are there ICC rules that govern when squads must be announced?
I actually didn't mind the timing. It took some uncertainty away from some players, and one non-competition three day game changes little. Practically everything to be known was known, bar injury.
 

The Passenger

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Patterson not identified as ‘Talent’ according to Greg Chappell?

Our selectors are like the reverse of moneyball, pick guys based on supposed hunches about technique/being a good bloke/having a hot girlfriend etc
Greg Chappell often says things like "promoting a player is more than just runs and wickets at the level below".... To an extent I agree. There are loads of examples of lesser performed players scoring more runs or taking more wickets then better performed players at the lower levels. It's not an exact science.

But I've always felt his modus operandi for these statements is nothing more than trying to protect his position within Australian cricket. I.e. "Anyone can read CricInfo StatsGuru but only someone like me can truly understand what is happening out in the middle."

When cricketers - and indeed all professional sportsmen - are in a funk they say something like "just gotta go back to the basics".... Maybe it's time our selectors did the same. Go back to the basics. Just pick the guys scoring the most runs and taking the most wickets. Because the hunches they are going with? Well they are not working at all.
 

1990crow

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Who are the best young bats in the country?
What classes as young? 26 and younger?

Patterson (FC ave 41)
Head (FC ave 36, test ave 32)
Sangha (FC ave 31)
Bryant (yet to debut)
Pucovski (FC ave 49)
Harris (FC ave 35, test ave 36)
Labuschange (FC ave 33, test ave 23)
Renshaw (FC ave 37, test ave 33)
Lehmann (FC ave 39)
Edwards (FC ave 26)
Phillipe (FC ave 23)
Doran (FC ave 28)
 

Blue1980

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Greg Chappell often says things like "promoting a player is more than just runs and wickets at the level below".... To an extent I agree. There are loads of examples of lesser performed players scoring more runs or taking more wickets then better performed players at the lower levels. It's not an exact science.

But I've always felt his modus operandi for these statements is nothing more than trying to protect his position within Australian cricket. I.e. "Anyone can read CricInfo StatsGuru but only someone like me can truly understand what is happening out in the middle."

When cricketers - and indeed all professional sportsmen - are in a funk they say something like "just gotta go back to the basics".... Maybe it's time our selectors did the same. Go back to the basics. Just pick the guys scoring the most runs and taking the most wickets. Because the hunches they are going with? Well they are not working at all.
Yes and basically Chappell will give more chances for one of his pathways prodigies than someone else because he will want to be vindicated.

I agree it’s not purely about runs/wickets but it isn’t just some random crapshoot based off hunches either.

I understand if the performances of players aren’t substantially different but when they are (ignoring guys averaging 20-30 runs more over the past 12-18 months based off some made up metric), it’s just totally stupid.
 

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Greg Chappell often says things like "promoting a player is more than just runs and wickets at the level below".... To an extent I agree. There are loads of examples of lesser performed players scoring more runs or taking more wickets then better performed players at the lower levels. It's not an exact science.

But I've always felt his modus operandi for these statements is nothing more than trying to protect his position within Australian cricket. I.e. "Anyone can read CricInfo StatsGuru but only someone like me can truly understand what is happening out in the middle."

When cricketers - and indeed all professional sportsmen - are in a funk they say something like "just gotta go back to the basics".... Maybe it's time our selectors did the same. Go back to the basics. Just pick the guys scoring the most runs and taking the most wickets. Because the hunches they are going with? Well they are not working at all.
Your second paragraph describes basically every second thread on this board.
 
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Hunches are fine IMO. That's why selectors are in those positions.

However those hunches have to be proven to be right more often than not. Otherwise you need to be fired because you clearly don't know what you are doing.
 

The Passenger

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Patterson not identified as ‘Talent’ according to Greg Chappell?
Late addition to the test squad.

Right call IMO.

Generally these sort of calls means the guy is going to play, but regardless it's least acknowledgement that he is right in the frame - as he should be.
 

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Greg Chappell is 100% cooked and I say that as a devotee of his for a long time - he’s thrown away everything he believed in for a pay cheque to the detriment of the game and his status in it - he and Hohns need to be retired
Out of curiousity, what is he doing in his current position that doesn't match his formerly held beliefs?
 
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Is anyone tied up with grade cricket in their state?

We've had a worrying trend here over the last few seasons where some of our best young talents get picked in various State squads and Cricket Australia pathway programs.

They get a taste of preparing like a professional cricketer as a 16-18 year old. Longer preseason, early morning weights sessions, extra games, camps at the COE, overseas tours, expert tuition, change their diet, fitness testing etc.

However... within a year or two they drop out of cricket completely. Sometimes this decision is accompanied by poor form but not as a rule. Even good performers are dropping out. But what always comes back is that they don't want to be there, aren't enjoying the game, not fun anymore.

There's obviously a bit going on in their lives at that age but I'm just interested if this is common in other states.
 

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What is the purpose of selecting the test squad so early?

Only creates possibility of egg on face.

Are there ICC rules that govern when squads must be announced?
Perhaps to not give the impression that they're selecting based on Big Bash form, and also give guys like Pucovski and Patterson (who aren't featuring in the BBL) time to practice/prepare.
 

Damon_3388

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Is anyone tied up with grade cricket in their state?

We've had a worrying trend here over the last few seasons where some of our best young talents get picked in various State squads and Cricket Australia pathway programs.

They get a taste of preparing like a professional cricketer as a 16-18 year old. Longer preseason, early morning weights sessions, extra games, camps at the COE, overseas tours, expert tuition, change their diet, fitness testing etc.

However... within a year or two they drop out of cricket completely. Sometimes this decision is accompanied by poor form but not as a rule. Even good performers are dropping out. But what always comes back is that they don't want to be there, aren't enjoying the game, not fun anymore.

There's obviously a bit going on in their lives at that age but I'm just interested if this is common in other states.
Is this a problem unique to cricket? Some kids just aren't cut out for the more "professional" side of sport - training, preparation, recovery, etc.

This could just be an age thing, as it's hard to focus and commit to anything seriously at 16-18. They may be more ready and willing to adhere to and cope with these demands by the time they reach their early 20s, but sometimes by that stage, they've missed the boat and it's too late.

I guess the question is, is having these "professional" demands on kids at a young age damaging to their development and future, or is it necessary, perhaps even as a filter for those that can't cope?
 

Adelaide Hawk

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Is anyone tied up with grade cricket in their state?

We've had a worrying trend here over the last few seasons where some of our best young talents get picked in various State squads and Cricket Australia pathway programs.

They get a taste of preparing like a professional cricketer as a 16-18 year old. Longer preseason, early morning weights sessions, extra games, camps at the COE, overseas tours, expert tuition, change their diet, fitness testing etc.

However... within a year or two they drop out of cricket completely. Sometimes this decision is accompanied by poor form but not as a rule. Even good performers are dropping out. But what always comes back is that they don't want to be there, aren't enjoying the game, not fun anymore.

There's obviously a bit going on in their lives at that age but I'm just interested if this is common in other states.
I used to be involved in grade cricket at top level, but these days involve myself at local level. I've often thought 16 years of age is way too early to be subjecting cricket talent to this kind of thing. Unless the lad shows extraordinary potential as a 16 year old, like a Ponting, then they are better off just playing at their local clubs and enjoying themselves with their mates. I would think 18-20 would be a better age, but I guess they target 16 year olds to prevent AFL from getting their hooks into them.

That was always our biggest problem. You'd bring a kid along nicely, see them in the state Under 19s, and then the Australian U19 teams, and just when they were beginning to bud as a cricketer, they'd get drafted by the AFL. A classic example, Simon Goodwin. Australian cricket really missed out on one hell of a left arm swing bowler.

The other day I think I heard Brett Lee talking about his son playing Under 12s for NSW. State cricket for under 12 year olds ... ridiculous.
 

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By chance revisited this article which was written early last year and presciently covers Burns, Pucovski & Patterson (& G. Chappell). Not sureit relates to the urrent discussion but found it very interesting. I recall reading a book (might've been Ed Smith or Matthew Syed?) that discussed why it seemed that great table tennis players had superior reaction skills to normal people. Tests showed they didn't, but what they did have was an unconcious bank of every match they've played in their lives and picked up their anticipatory cues in their opponents body shape .

http://www.thecricketmonthly.com/story/1136242/what-does-a-batsman-see
 
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By chance revisited this article which was written early last year and presciently covers Burns, Pucovski & Patterson (& G. Chappell). Not sureit relates to the urrent discussion but found it very interesting. I recall reading a book (might've been Ed Smith or Matthew Syed?) that discussed why it seemed that great table tennis players had superior reaction skills to normal people. Tests showed they didn't, but what they did have was an unconcious bank of every match they've played in their lives and picked up their anticipatory cues in their opponents body shape .

http://www.thecricketmonthly.com/story/1136242/what-does-a-batsman-see
Bradman presumably saw a golf ball coming at him off of a water tank.
 

The Passenger

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I would think 18-20 would be a better age, but I guess they target 16 year olds to prevent AFL from getting their hooks into them.
I think this plays a huge part in it, but as you say it's not necessarily a modern thing. It's been happening for a while, but perhaps increased in the last 15 years or so.

Your future is a lot more bankable in sports like Australian Rules and Rugby League where there are significantly more professional spots and there isn't a huge drop off in contract value as there is in cricket - I.e. the difference between having a CA contract and a state only cricket is huge, although T20 tournaments around the world are levelling this out a bit.
 

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Good to see Matt Gilkes go well last night (keeping aside, lmao). Consistent runs in grade and second xi cricket this year, deserved the call up.
 
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I wonder if that's the same for other sports?

Probably not golf or lawn bowls but would be interesting to compare to footy, rugby, soccer, basketball, tennis
Thumbnails below for a bunch of others. These come from the Ausplay survey results - just google it and you'll find it.
afl.jpg basketball.JPG netball.JPG dancing.JPG golf.JPG soccer.JPG tennis.JPG afl.jpg
 
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