Development or Winning

[Rayzorwire]

Considering we only have six players over 25, it's not physically possible for us to play a side which seriously tilts the balance towards short term wins over development, we just don't have the players to do that even if we wanted to.

We only played three blokes over 25 last week and some still argued that because we are 'developing' players, there was no room for just one more bloke over 25 in Tuck to help provide support and the run necessary to play the game right out at both ends. Of the blokes over 25 who played, only Newman has over 100 games (the benchmark where you pass from your apprenticeship to a fully fledged, experienced AFL footballer) to his name, so you could very well argue that even they are still 'developing' players, as are Reiwoldt, Deledio and Jackson from the under-25's brigade.

So as far as I'm concerned, last week we played a side with 21 'developing' players and can easily afford to prune that number by a couple to include players like Tuck without getting concerned in the slightest about our overall development being compromised - we're still playing 19-20 'developing' players, which I'd point out, is several more than even Gold Coast ever will.

 

[NQTIGER]

You can't develop a winning culture unless the players are developed correctly.

By development do you mean keep them on or list for 5-6 years then decide they were duds in the first place and start again?

We now have got rid of the 2004 duds, and are working on the 2005, and 2006, at this RATE of DEVELOPMENT we wont be there till 2098.

The players we have can play, they have shown that time and time again, but when it comes to a big game , they sleep for two auarters.

It has nothing to do with development and all to do with heart and Passion, they have the skills, otherwise, the so called duds wouldnt blossom after they leave punt road.

The Attitude is "oh well we got spanked again" "theres always next week, next year"

Im sick of the excuses when we had an experienced side the excuses were we are too old our guns are past there prime, now we are too young the players arnt ready, they are just kids, shit other clubs kids blossom in their second years, ours get the second year blues.

Face it we were crap on thursday night, apart from 30 minutes, there were no structures , game plan or anything, If anyone saw any improvement from last year they are kidding them selves.

The cheats missed some easy goals and we kicked everything, that doesnt happen very often and we were lucky not to be on the end of another pantsing.

with 9 minutes to go we were two goals up, we lost by nearly 4 thats a 5 goal turn around in 9 minutes.

And then some people say we improved, what a load of Manure

 

[tigerdan]

I think too many people assume that those who select 'winning' are advocating 'cutting corners' or 'topping up' to get ahead of ourselves. I disagree. Winning for me is simply winning games, not topping up our list. We play and watch footy to win, not jerk off about how we have the youngest list in the AFL.

I'd also argue that unless we start improving on the win/loss ratio we will find it harder to keep guys like Deledio (say) who have spent all of their careers in a shitty side. While they may love playing footy with the current playing group, at the end of the day they will be susceptible to poaching.

To me, this endless 'development' mania is just juvenile doublespeak that many have been sucked into in the era of the draft to justify why we are shit.

 

[NQTIGER]

I think too many people assume that those who select 'winning' are advocating 'cutting corners' or 'topping up' to get ahead of ourselves. I disagree. Winning for me is simply winning games, not topping up our list. We play and watch footy to win, not jerk off about how we have the youngest list in the AFL.

I'd also argue that unless we start improving on the win/loss ratio we will find it harder to keep guys like Deledio (say) who have spent all of their careers in a shitty side. While they may love playing footy with the current playing group, at the end of the day they will be susceptible to poaching.

To me, this endless 'development' mania is just juvenile doublespeak that many have been sucked into in the era of the draft to justify why we are shit.

That is so true, players play to win things and I dont mean spoons or club B and Fs, sure they talk about loyalty but at the end of the day they want to play in succesfull sides.

We are still a long way from that, some on here talk about paoching some guns when free agency comes along, WHY would anyone want to leave a club that is on the verge of succes to come to a club that doesnt turn up when the big games are on?


As for the new center well the photos show what is warong at the club, Photos of the new center?

All i saw was photos of Jack and Newman....... apart from sum weights, wow that was an improvement all i saw was Jack and Newman hamming it up.

Cut the feelgood crap and start performing where it counts....On THE FOOOTY FIELD.

 

[Rayzorwire]

Good posts fellas.

 

[jihg]

By development do you mean keep them on or list for 5-6 years then decide they were duds in the first place and start again?

We now have got rid of the 2004 duds, and are working on the 2005, and 2006, at this RATE of DEVELOPMENT we wont be there till 2098.

The players we have can play, they have shown that time and time again, but when it comes to a big game , they sleep for two auarters.

It has nothing to do with development and all to do with heart and Passion, they have the skills, otherwise, the so called duds wouldnt blossom after they leave punt road.

The Attitude is "oh well we got spanked again" "theres always next week, next year"

Im sick of the excuses when we had an experienced side the excuses were we are too old our guns are past there prime, now we are too young the players arnt ready, they are just kids, shit other clubs kids blossom in their second years, ours get the second year blues.

Face it we were crap on thursday night, apart from 30 minutes, there were no structures , game plan or anything, If anyone saw any improvement from last year they are kidding them selves.

The cheats missed some easy goals and we kicked everything, that doesnt happen very often and we were lucky not to be on the end of another pantsing.

with 9 minutes to go we were two goals up, we lost by nearly 4 thats a 5 goal turn around in 9 minutes.

And then some people say we improved, what a load of Manure

I agree if they have not set the world on fire by the end of their first year we should delist them.

As for Thursday night not sure how my post has anything to do with that or how you got the idea I thought it was all ok. If you put a bunch of raw kids out on the field they will lose all the time if you do nothing for them they will continue to lose them.

So what do you do you teach them structures you get them into the gym and you work on their awareness and decision making and lastly game time experience to me that would be development but hey if you want to turn over the list every year until we happen to get a bunch that win then go ahead.

 

[santa claws]

With the exception of West Coast every other side you have said we were worse than on the weekend were actually better than us last year.

The simple fact of the matter is we played shit footy for 3 quarters against a side that is pushing for the finals again and despite this lost by 20 points. So when you look at the overall picture and compare it to how our recent performances are against the same opposition have turned out I'm not sure how you can say that it wasn't an improvement. 7 months ago against the same opposition they kicked 3.7 in the first quarter, had 41 scoring shots for the match and went on to win by 89 points as we simply rolled over and spread our cheeks. This time around they kicked 2.8, ended up having 34 shots and only won by 20. Surely an 11 goal turn around is considered an improved performance, especially from a side that was probably just as young as the one that got thumped last year.

two things.
1 who says they (carlton are even going to make finals) i think they are borderline and am happy to say so. shows just how far we have to go eh.
they went in without a decent structure. and still did enough to win by 60 plus but didnt. this to me is the reality not that they took the foot off the pedal for a little while. why is this always just over looked. i told you last week with the way they were if we could not beat them we never would.
2 if you look at the original post i implied and said all off season most of the ferals on here had underachievers from last yr below us. those underachievers win or lose performed better than us. some will argue this im just being honest.

 

[NQTIGER]

I agree if they have not set the world on fire by the end of their first year we should delist them.

As for Thursday night not sure how my post has anything to do with that or how you got the idea I thought it was all ok. If you put a bunch of raw kids out on the field they will lose all the time if you do nothing for them they will continue to lose them.

So what do you do you teach them structures you get them into the gym and you work on their awareness and decision making and lastly game time experience to me that would be development but hey if you want to turn over the list every year until we happen to get a bunch that win then go ahead.

Who said delist thm after 1 year? by year three we should know if they are going to be footballers, or at least have some heart, even, our players dont have heart, did anyone watch the cats?


A side "on the slide" " bomber gone" Chapman out" "Ablett gone" "too old" etc etc, their old blokes were jumping around like 18 year olds after beating the saints, that is heart, passion and PRIDE.

Would our guys have done the same thing?

When we need to have the crowd roaring to get them fired up it tells me there is no PRIDE in the jumper,

You might bot be elite but at least show some pride in your perfotmance.