Development Regression

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SellarStardom

Club Legend
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Jul 2, 2008
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Perth
AFL Club
Adelaide
Simply, what the hell is happening at the club.

We have a few injuries at the moment and the pressure on the players is almost non-existent due to the lack of development across the depth and younger players in the squad.

So removing last years draftees, looking at the players isn't a good outlook. There has been some positive developments with O'Brien continuing to dominate but not get a look in at AFL level, Kelly has come on and Doedee has been injured.

Dean Gore - highly rated junior who was amassing at least 20 disposals a game in the VFL in 2015 and pushing for selection. This was not hyperbole for the Danger trade, the rated him enough to give him a early extension. Current trend - regressed badly, now averaging about 12 possessions a game and a shadow of his former SANFL capabilities before being drafted

Harry Dear - was looking great last year and into the Preseason, to the extent many were calling for Jera to be dropped last year and replaced by Dear. Current trend - regressed badly, now hardly seeing the ball, very few marks and goals per game

Jono Beech - Star player for Wests for the last few years. Current trend - regressed slightly from the player he was at Wests, now solid without the dominance he had

Harry Wigg - Highly rated junior half back with a laser left leg according to most. Current trend - regressed badly with the club seemingly taking his kicking ability away from him in trying to turn him into a inside midfielder.

Paul Hunter- Only a rookie and has not progressed much from the player we brought in. Current trend - unlikely to be re-rookied, speculative

It begs the question, have we got the right system in place>??
 
Dont confuse smart drafting with player development.

So Beech has improved in your mind, please highlight where since he is now in a full time environment

Dear hasnt progressed because we play a terrible structure. Sorry our SANFL team is there to develop players so bad team structure equals bad player development/environment.

Gore and Wigg as discussed.

Some players wont make it I agree, but my concern is that the bottom quarter of the squad hasnt improved in a couple of seasons now.
 
Counter point:
Gore has definitely regressed. But he was never as highly rated as they made him out to be. With Wigg, Beech and Thompson as the main inside midfielders, he hasn't earnt the midfield time. He was sold as this big white hope, to soften the blow, and was given the midfield time to try prove it, but he just wasn't up to it.
Dear has regressed. Had that one week where he had 10 scoring shots, but otherwise has been very underwhelming.
Beech has been elevated and has been pushing for a debut for most of the season. He's comfortably better now than he was when he joined the club. Maybe doesn't get 30 touches, but usually gets 20+ and a goal or 2. Probably the best player at SANFL level, other than...
Wigg is the best player in the SANFL team. Had 38 touches last weekend (38!!!). Really should have debuted by now. I can think of another highly rated junior half back who was turned into an inside midfielder. He turned out alright (hint, he doesn't play for us anymore and just took home Charlie). He's come an awful long way in the last year and I can't see how anyone can say he's regressed, just because he doesn't play the same role he did when he was drafted.
I've never rated Hunter. He did well to get a second year, but was always going to be an outside chance at best to last past his first contract. Same with Dear, our forward line just isn't any good in the SANFL this year. Not sure if that's a delivery issue or what the story is there.

Doedee has come in in the last few weeks and played very good footy. Is a decent chance at a debut by the end of the year at his current progression.
Gallucci has already debuted.
Greenwood has gone from basketballer with a lot of work to do, to kicking 3 goals on debut last week. Was one of our best consistently until he debuted.
Menzel gets a lot more of the ball at SANFL level now than he did to start with.
O'Brien has progressed nicely. Beats his opponent most weeks and is ready to go if anything ever happens to Jacobs.
 

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SellarStardom said:
Simply, what the hell is happening at the club.

We have a few injuries at the moment and the pressure on the players is almost non-existent due to the lack of development across the depth and younger players in the squad.

So removing last years draftees, looking at the players isn't a good outlook. There has been some positive developments with O'Brien continuing to dominate but not get a look in at AFL level, Kelly has come on and Doedee has been injured.

Dean Gore - highly rated junior who was amassing at least 20 disposals a game in the VFL in 2015 and pushing for selection. This was not hyperbole for the Danger trade, the rated him enough to give him a early extension. Current trend - regressed badly, now averaging about 12 possessions a game and a shadow of his former SANFL capabilities before being drafted

Harry Dear - was looking great last year and into the Preseason, to the extent many were calling for Jera to be dropped last year and replaced by Dear. Current trend - regressed badly, now hardly seeing the ball, very few marks and goals per game

Jono Beech - Star player for Wests for the last few years. Current trend - regressed slightly from the player he was at Wests, now solid without the dominance he had

Harry Wigg - Highly rated junior half back with a laser left leg according to most. Current trend - regressed badly with the club seemingly taking his kicking ability away from him in trying to turn him into a inside midfielder.

Paul Hunter- Only a rookie and has not progressed much from the player we brought in. Current trend - unlikely to be re-rookied, speculative

It begs the question, have we got the right system in place>??
Click to expand...
Ok, so I'm pretty sure this is a troll post but I'll play anyway.

Wigg had 38 touches last week. Beech, who had an injury interrupted start to the year, had 23, 12 marks and 3 goals. The best 2 players on the ground. Hunter's a rookie, they're not all going to come off, Dear's been inconsistent since the beginning, which is normal for young big guys, which leaves Gore. One guy out of the whole list. And you're ignoring all the players who have developed extremely well and our now playing AFL. Heard of a bloke called Greenwood?

So yeah, try again mate. Poor effort.
 
SellarStardom said:
Simply, what the hell is happening at the club.

We have a few injuries at the moment and the pressure on the players is almost non-existent due to the lack of development across the depth and younger players in the squad.

So removing last years draftees, looking at the players isn't a good outlook. There has been some positive developments with O'Brien continuing to dominate but not get a look in at AFL level, Kelly has come on and Doedee has been injured.

Dean Gore - highly rated junior who was amassing at least 20 disposals a game in the VFL in 2015 and pushing for selection. This was not hyperbole for the Danger trade, the rated him enough to give him a early extension. Current trend - regressed badly, now averaging about 12 possessions a game and a shadow of his former SANFL capabilities before being drafted

Harry Dear - was looking great last year and into the Preseason, to the extent many were calling for Jera to be dropped last year and replaced by Dear. Current trend - regressed badly, now hardly seeing the ball, very few marks and goals per game

Jono Beech - Star player for Wests for the last few years. Current trend - regressed slightly from the player he was at Wests, now solid without the dominance he had

Harry Wigg - Highly rated junior half back with a laser left leg according to most. Current trend - regressed badly with the club seemingly taking his kicking ability away from him in trying to turn him into a inside midfielder.

Paul Hunter- Only a rookie and has not progressed much from the player we brought in. Current trend - unlikely to be re-rookied, speculative

It begs the question, have we got the right system in place>??
Click to expand...



Are we going backwards?????????

Are we a premiership threat???????

Where are we ATM specifically on the ladder????

The club would laugh if they read BF, there are small things that every supporter will whinge about but overall they seem to have their s**t together

Every club cuts 5 or 6 players every year will we cut those you have mentioned?


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Dear has regressed statistically largely as a result of playing in a far poorer SANFL side.

Looked good as a FF last year in a dominant side where he had plenty of opportunities, largely as the main target.

This year he's been playing in a losing side, and as a split target with Himmelberg.

The situation is far more nuanced than raw statistics.
 
marty36 said:
Are we going backwards?????????

Are we a premiership threat???????

Where are we ATM specifically on the ladder????

The club would laugh if they read BF, there are small things that every supporter will whinge about but overall they seem to have their s**t together

Every club cuts 5 or 6 players every year will we cut those you have mentioned?


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app
Click to expand...

Probably not all of them seeing CEY and Thommo are also very likely to get cut.
 
Golumless said:
Probably not all of them seeing CEY and Thommo are also very likely to get cut.
Click to expand...


Thommo no doubt he can stay on the list until retirement age, CEY Im not so sure on it would be rather heartless and he did show he was on the right path

But would be interesting to see who will get cut, but every club has 5 0r 6 if not more not living up to their development potential and I mean every club, so to try and say we are any different is ridiculous some clubs are known to cut 8 or 9 which really shows lack of development
 
Gore, Dear and Hunter just aren't that good. All were speculative late picks.

Beech is a WYSIWYG player. He was never going to develop significantly at the Crows. And he's been decent anyway.

Wigg wasn't a super highly rated player and player disposal typically suffers moving to the inside anyway. His laser kick was mostly on the back of cheap uncontested ball at half back
 
Wigg's been developed in the wrong way, IMO. Needed to become a Laird-type player, one who could break open games with his boot. Still think that's his role at AFL level, with the added bonus of his developed contested ball winning and tackling.

Dear I've never thought would make it. He's athletic as all hell, but just doesn't show the footballing nous for mine. Hunter just isn't good enough, simple as that.

Gore's certainly regressed since his first year at Geelong.

Beech is the perfect depth player in reality - not someone who you always want in your 22, but someone who makes a big impact at SANFL level and plays his role in the AFL side when needed.

Wouldn't say our development has been crap. Doedee, ROB, Gallucci, Milera, Greenwood, Lever, McGovern just some of the names who we've developed or seem to be successfully developing from the past few years. Hopefully some of those guys can become out and out stars in the future.
 

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This was not a troll

I will concede that my view isnt shared. I have felt for a while that outside the core ( those playing in the AFL most weeks and the "in and outs") the club isnt where top clubs have been in overall player development.

I will concede that my expectations are not aligned to others and put an end to this.
 
SellarStardom said:
This was not a troll

I will concede that my view isnt shared. I have felt for a while that outside the core ( those playing in the AFL most weeks and the "in and outs") the club isnt where top clubs have been in overall player development.

I will concede that my expectations are not aligned to others and put an end to this.
Click to expand...


How many under developers do the top clubs cut every year????
 
Scorpus said:
Gore, Dear and Hunter just aren't that good. All were speculative late picks.

Beech is a WYSIWYG player. He was never going to develop significantly at the Crows. And he's been decent anyway.

Wigg wasn't a super highly rated player and player disposal typically suffers moving to the inside anyway. His laser kick was mostly on the back of cheap uncontested ball at half back
Click to expand...


Is beech not developing he was a rookie

He won the teams B and F last year and has been promted to the senior list this year, if that isnt developing Im not sure what else the lad could have done
 
SellarStardom said:
This was not a troll

I will concede that my view isnt shared. I have felt for a while that outside the core ( those playing in the AFL most weeks and the "in and outs") the club isnt where top clubs have been in overall player development.

I will concede that my expectations are not aligned to others and put an end to this.
Click to expand...

Would completely disagree. If there's one thing the club excels at it's developing what initially appears to be mid-tier talent into exceptional footballers.

Hell, Greenwood was a professional basketballer 18 months ago. Now he's playing in the team that's on top of the ladder. This is exceptionally rare.

Some players simply don't make it. That happens at all Clubs.
 
marty36 said:
Is beech not developing he was a rookie

He won the teams B and F last year and has been promted to the senior list this year, if that isnt developing Im not sure what else the lad could have done
Click to expand...

There is a difference between developing and playing to previously-demonstrated ability
 
Considering

Our position on the ladder
Our lack of top 10 picks
The age profile of our list

Our development has been fantastic

Laird, Hartigan, Cameron, Greenwood, Rat all rookie or late picks

JJ, Lynch and Betts are all better players at their 2nd club and jury still out on Hampton, Seedman and Menzel

Even Sloane pick 43 is a great story

There will always be players that drop away and Hunter and Dear might be two examples of this however this happens at all clubs, it's the AFL system
 
Add to the 100% success business, it's literally impossible.

40 Players on the list, 22 players per match. It's never going to come to be that every player drafted goes on to have a successful playing career for the Club. If they were the average career could only last 50 games due to the natural replacement rate.
 
jo172 said:
Add to the 100% success business, it's literally impossible.

40 Players on the list, 22 players per match. It's never going to come to be that every player drafted goes on to have a successful playing career for the Club. If they were the average career could only last 50 games due to the natural replacement rate.
Click to expand...


I think the success rate of over 100 games in the AFL of all draftees is 35%, look at how many players actually play 200 games we have bugger all in our entire history considering how many we have drafted, Melbourne has only ever had 1 player play 300 games in its entire history. The OP is not realising the difficulty in players succeeding
 
Well, we have developed a whole bunch of guys really, really well over the last 2 years.

I would have thought that we were not going to be much show in '16 and '17 but we've had Lever, Kelly, Gov, Atkins, Cameron, Mrouch, Knight all step up. Huge help.
Greenwood looks the goods too, after 1 game. :)

Reality is, 40 odd players won't fit into the 22. Some guys just aren't going to make it... but we're running at a bloody good hit rate. Our problem over the last 5 years hasn't been our top-end talent, cos those guys are there, and are guns. It's the bottom 5-10 players in the 22. Our ascending the ladder coincides with the guys in that tier stepping up.
 
Even though they were whipping boys on here you can arguably view discards like Wright and Kerridge as development successes. Undoubtedly got the most out of their ability and have proved capable AFL footballers.
 
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