Rumour Dew gone

[Sweet Jesus]

very different approach to list management in a first few years.GWS brought in a lot of old guys who were cooked on the field but could at least help set a high standard off the field. GC didn’t do this and you’re seeing the result of it now. GWS built their list in a far superior way, comparatively, in my opinion.

I'm not convinced at all that this contributes to success 5-10 years later.

 

[reg_lower91]

I'm not convinced at all that this contributes to success 5-10 years later.

100% it does. How could it not be relevant? It’s the same players who were once young and are now senior on their list. If all they’ve ever been held accountable to is a lower standard of training/ professionalism, then that’s all they’ll teach and expect from the next wave of recruits. It becomes hereditary.

 

[Sweet Jesus]

100% it does.

Really? Recruiting Dean Brogan 100 per cent contributes to making a GF 10 years later?

I don't think so.

 

[GC2015]

It would be fascinating to know how the Giants succeeded where the Suns failed.

How long do you have?

• The inaugural coach - untried Guy McKenna vs highly experienced Kevin Sheedy.
• Initial list built - Suns acquired players in their prime who would keep younger guys out of the team for many years vs GWS signing older/more experienced players that would naturally be overtaken by the young guys in the first two/three years.
• The Suns had to wait eight years to move out of the tin shed training facilities vs Giants had first class training facilities built within two years of entering the AFL.
• Natural drafting advantage that came with going second. One crack at it for the Suns in the 2010 draft vs the Giants who could stockpile multiple picks over several years as they built their list e.g. three number 1 draft picks in a row.
• Stronger academy zone in southern NSW. The Riverina/Albury (potentially Broken Hill as well) region has a much higher standard of local footy when compared to any part of Queensland. As the Giants climbed the ladder, this academy access allow them automatically secure first round picks like Jacob Hopper, Matt Kennedy, Harrison Himmelberg, Will Setterfield, Harry Perryman and Isaac Cumming before the AFL stepped in and removed the unfair advantage.
• More draft picks/trade capital for the Giants (remember the mini draft?) and more cap space for more years.

I could keep going but you get the point.

 

[Kwality]

Remove the entire board. No matter who is coach same sh*t year after year

As a reluctant admirer of Tony Cochrane from his Supercars days, he is not running the show, Mark Evans is the footy manager & an AFL appointee. From Gils remarks I'd say Cochrane is agitating for change unsuccessfully.

I dont believe the board have any say over the on field.

 

[Kwality]

You reckon that would make a difference?

Money alone NO.

 

[Kwality]

How long do you have?

• The inaugural coach - untried Guy McKenna vs highly experienced Kevin Sheedy.
• Initial list built - Suns acquired players in their prime who would keep younger guys out of the team for many years vs GWS signing older/more experienced players that would naturally be overtaken by the young guys in the first two/three years.
• The Suns had to wait eight years to move out of the tin shed training facilities vs Giants had first class training facilities built within two years of entering the AFL.
• Natural drafting advantage that came with going second. One crack at it for the Suns in the 2010 draft vs the Giants who could stockpile multiple picks over several years as they built their list e.g. three number 1 draft picks in a row.
• Stronger academy zone in southern NSW. The Riverina/Albury (potentially Broken Hill as well) region has a much higher standard of local footy when compared to any part of Queensland. As the Giants climbed the ladder, this academy access allow them automatically secure first round picks like Jacob Hopper, Matt Kennedy, Harrison Himmelberg, Will Setterfield, Harry Perryman and Isaac Cumming before the AFL stepped in and removed the unfair advantage.
• More draft picks/trade capital for the Giants (remember the mini draft?) and more cap space for more years.

I could keep going but you get the point.

Remembering the AFL wanted to relocate a club, not start it from scratch. The Brisbane Bears were not successful.

 

[Sweet Jesus]

The inaugural coach - untried Guy McKenna vs highly experienced Kevin Sheedy.

I addressed this one earlier. McKenna was harshly treated and you could argue the decision to sack him was actually the mistake.

Natural drafting advantage that came with going second. One crack at it for the Suns in the 2010 draft vs the Giants who could stockpile multiple picks over several years as they built their list e.g. three number 1 draft picks in a row.

More draft picks/trade capital for the Giants (remember the mini draft?) and more cap space for more years.

Surely the Suns can't complain about not having enough picks. FMD.

I could keep going but you get the point.

I think the most decisive difference has actually been drafting/recruiting and then subsequent development/retention.

Go through the list of players who've played 80+ games or 100+ games for the Suns and the Giants. That's what defines the two clubs. It's night and day. You can see the number of top-liners who joined GWS and formed the core of the club. The Giants have had maybe a dozen guys who have been elite or close to it? The Suns, on the other hand, have not even half that and Touk Miller is the only one still there.

 

[Kwality]

I addressed this one earlier. McKenna was harshly treated and you could argue the decision to sack him was actually the mistake.

Surely the Suns can't complain about not having enough picks. FMD.

I think the most decisive difference has actually been drafting/recruiting and then subsequent development/retention.

Go through the list of players who've played 80+ games or 100+ games for the Suns and the Giants. That's what defines the two clubs. It's night and day. You can see the number of top-liners who joined GWS and formed the core of the club. The Giants have had maybe a dozen guys who have been elite or close to it? The Suns, on the other hand, have not even half that and Touk Miller is the only one still there.

They fired Bluey, but the AFL promoted CEO Travis Auld:

Travis Auld Appointed To AFL Executive

AFL Chief Executive Officer Gillon McLachlan today announced the appointment of Gold Coast Suns Chief Executive Travis Auld to a new position on the AFL Senior Management Team as AFL General Manager, Clubs and AFL Operations.

www.afl.com.au

We all know simply being given the picks does not mean success, see Melbourne. Then there is the 'go home' factor that favours heartland States over the developing States, aided by player managers eager to help home grown boys back to Mum.

As for the players who have stayed the course, I'd suggest David Swallow must be recognised & under valued.

Is Luke Hodge still with the club?

 

[Billy ray]

I just spoke to Cochrane at dinner. Dewy has until bye next year to be at least 8-4 and 110%

 

[Stottzy]

How long do you have?

• The inaugural coach - untried Guy McKenna vs highly experienced Kevin Sheedy.
• Initial list built - Suns acquired players in their prime who would keep younger guys out of the team for many years vs GWS signing older/more experienced players that would naturally be overtaken by the young guys in the first two/three years.
• The Suns had to wait eight years to move out of the tin shed training facilities vs Giants had first class training facilities built within two years of entering the AFL.
• Natural drafting advantage that came with going second. One crack at it for the Suns in the 2010 draft vs the Giants who could stockpile multiple picks over several years as they built their list e.g. three number 1 draft picks in a row.
• Stronger academy zone in southern NSW. The Riverina/Albury (potentially Broken Hill as well) region has a much higher standard of local footy when compared to any part of Queensland. As the Giants climbed the ladder, this academy access allow them automatically secure first round picks like Jacob Hopper, Matt Kennedy, Harrison Himmelberg, Will Setterfield, Harry Perryman and Isaac Cumming before the AFL stepped in and removed the unfair advantage.
• More draft picks/trade capital for the Giants (remember the mini draft?) and more cap space for more years.

I could keep going but you get the point.

Even before that. I remember when Gold Coast had their official launch night, the nickname, song and jumper were supposed to be announced. Instead they didn't come up with anything and used the "We'll let the supporters drive this one" excuse and their jumper was just plain red with the GC Logo. Then they pick a soft nickname, basically keep the same jumper with a splash of yellow and put together a lacklustre team song. It might sound small, but it spoke volumes to me. If they couldn't get these basics right, what hope were they gonna have when it comes to running a club.

 

[Sweet Jesus]

We all know simply being given the picks does not mean success, see Melbourne.

Sure, but I don't think there's a credible argument that GWS have done better because they had more opportunity at the draft. The Suns have had ample opportunity in terms of early picks.

Then there is the 'go home' factor that favours heartland States over the developing States, aided by player managers eager to help home grown boys back to Mum.

Again, that affects GWS as well. Look at the players they've retained.

As for the players who have stayed the course, I'd suggest David Swallow must be recognised & under valued.

He's not a top-liner.

 

[RowellAnderson12]

I just spoke to Cochrane at dinner. Dewy has until bye next year to be at least 8-4 and 110%

Unrealistic

 

[Kwality]

I just spoke to Cochrane at dinner. Dewy has until bye next year to be at least 8-4 and 110%

Digressing did he have anything to say about the Supercars sale or the Tatts numbers.

 

[SnusCG]

11 years without playing a single final after getting major draft concessions.

It's a disaster.

St Kilda has won 1 flag in 124 years. If we were to repeat the last 11 years of our existence, with the exact same finishing positions, for 148 years, we would have 1 less wooden spoon and only 1 less flag than St Kilda.

Hawthorn took 32 years to make a finals series after they entered the league.

We've won as many finals games as Essendon has since 2004.

Fremantle has been in the league 27 years for no premierships

Sydney had a 73 year premiership drought between 1933 - 2005.

Melbourne had an 11 year finals drought between 2006 - 2017 that included winning 2 wooden spoons (and were Gold Coast and GWS not introduced during that period would have won another 2), 2 priority picks and were given an experienced coach (roos) to caretake the club.

Carlton are currently in just as bad, if not a worse situation than we are.



people act as though though the Gold Coast is some big unprecedented issue within the AFL but a lot of teams go through rough stretches for an extended period of time. We were the youngest team in the AFL this year and had some exceptional games, coupled with some really really average games.

Dew needs to go, definitely. But lets not throw the baby out with the bathwater.

A midfield that includes Touk, Rowell, Anderson, Greenwood, Swallow, Witts

A forward line the includes King, Rankine, Sexton, Ainsworth

and A defensive line that features Sam Collins, Ballard, Powell, Lukosius and Bowes

There's a lot to work with. A coach like Clarkson, Roos or Lyons would take these guys with an extra year of development to the finals.

 

[WillHayward]

St Kilda has won 1 flag in 124 years. If we were to repeat the last 11 years of our existence, with the exact same finishing positions, for 148 years, we would have 1 less wooden spoon and only 1 less flag than St Kilda.

Hawthorn took 32 years to make a finals series after they entered the league.

We've won as many finals games as Essendon has since 2004.

Fremantle has been in the league 27 years for no premierships

Sydney had a 73 year premiership drought between 1933 - 2005.

Melbourne had an 11 year finals drought between 2006 - 2017 that included winning 2 wooden spoons (and were Gold Coast and GWS not introduced during that period would have won another 2), 2 priority picks and were given an experienced coach (roos) to caretake the club.

Carlton are currently in just as bad, if not a worse situation than we are.



people act as though though the Gold Coast is some big unprecedented issue within the AFL but a lot of teams go through rough stretches for an extended period of time. We were the youngest team in the AFL this year and had some exceptional games, coupled with some really really average games.

Dew needs to go, definitely. But lets not throw the baby out with the bathwater.

A midfield that includes Touk, Rowell, Anderson, Greenwood, Swallow, Witts

A forward line the includes King, Rankine, Sexton, Ainsworth

and A defensive line that features Sam Collins, Ballard, Powell, Lukosius and Bowes

There's a lot to work with. A coach like Clarkson, Roos or Lyons would take these guys with an extra year of development to the finals.

All irrelevant.
Different comp since salary cap and draft.

Which clubs have gone 11 years without a finals appearance in the days of salary cap/draft?????

If Luko or King leave its disastrous.

 

[Sweet Jesus]

All irrelevant.
Different comp since salary cap and draft.

Which clubs have gone 11 years without a finals appearance in the days of salary cap/draft?????

If Luko or King leave its disastrous.

The other massive difference is the retention of their best players. GWS have also lost plenty but I reckon they've done a pretty good job of keeping the guys they really wanted to keep. Jeremy Cameron is probably the big exception but they got good service from him and good value in terms of compensation when he left. I guess Jack Steele wasn't great either. You can't say the same about the players GC have lost.

I think you're right about King. If he goes, that would be a disaster for them.

 

[SSwans2011]

All irrelevant.
Different comp since salary cap and draft.

Which clubs have gone 11 years without a finals appearance in the days of salary cap/draft?????

If Luko or King leave its disastrous.

Melbourne were 10 years into a finals drought less than 5 years ago and just won the Minor Premiership.

 

[WillHayward]

Melbourne were 10 years into a finals drought less than 5 years ago and just won the Minor Premiership.

Dees went 2007 to 2018?
12 years?
Im honestly trying to remember...

 

[SnusCG]

All irrelevant.
Different comp since salary cap and draft.

Which clubs have gone 11 years without a finals appearance in the days of salary cap/draft?????

If Luko or King leave its disastrous.

I'm actually not sure 'finals appearance' is a defining factor in club success during a period of time though. You can have finals appearances (ie. Essendon) and not be anywhere near winning one of those finals or a premiership. Carlton has played finals and not looked anywhere near it for almost 20 years. Same goes with Melbourne until this year.

St Kilda still hasn't won anything since the salary cap (1987) and draft era and has won considerably more wooden spoons
Carlton's only premierships during that time were due to salary cap cheating and has also won the same amount of wooden spoons in the last 11 years.
Essendon hasn't won a final in the last 17 years of salary cap and draft either.

King or Lukosius leaving would be a disaster. But it's not happening this season with both being contracted til 2022.

Like I said, move on Dew, but to act like this is some unseen before disaster is overlooking so much AFL history it makes my mind spin. You clearly weren't a Sydney fan back when they were relocated from South Melbourne or you'd remember them being as bad if not worse than the Suns are right now.

 

[WillHayward]

I'm actually not sure 'finals appearance' is a defining factor in club success during a period of time though. You can have finals appearances (ie. Essendon) and not be anywhere near winning one of those finals or a premiership. Carlton has played finals and not looked anywhere near it for almost 20 years. Same goes with Melbourne until this year.

St Kilda still hasn't won anything since the salary cap (1987) and draft era and has won considerably more wooden spoons
Carlton's only premierships during that time were due to salary cap cheating and has also won the same amount of wooden spoons in the last 11 years.
Essendon hasn't won a final in the last 17 years of salary cap and draft either.

King or Lukosius leaving would be a disaster. But it's not happening this season with both being contracted til 2022.

Like I said, move on Dew, but to act like this is some unseen before disaster is overlooking so much AFL history it makes my mind spin. You clearly weren't a Sydney fan back when they were relocated from South Melbourne or you'd remember them being as bad if not worse than the Suns are right now.

Just saying action needs to happen now because Luko and King will start looking at offers over the next 6 months.

Also St Kilda and Carlton are shit. Only 'tradition' keeps them going.

 

[SSwans2011]

Dees went 2007 to 2018?
12 years?
Im honestly trying to remember...

Yep. Brisbane's finals appearance in 2019 was 9 years in the making. Now look at them. Packed out GABBA every week pre-COVID, very marketable team, more AFL than NRL memberships sold in QLD. There's arguably no bigger market available to capture ATM than QLD. Suns are going nowhere, the upside in QLD is too high.

 

[SnusCG]

Just saying action needs to happen now because Luko and King will start looking at offers over the next 6 months.

Also St Kilda and Carlton are sh*t. Only 'tradition' keeps them going.

Oh absolutely, all points here I can agree on, but it just gets tiring to hear people act like Gold Coast is the only team to be average before. It's pretty common in almost all sports.

Just have to look at the Last Dance and the Chicago Bulls prior to Michael Jordan. All you need is one successful era to turn a rabble into one of the premier teams in a competition.

 

[SSwans2011]

Oh absolutely, all points here I can agree on, but it just gets tiring to hear people act like Gold Coast is the only team to be average before. It's pretty common in almost all sports.

Just have to look at the Last Dance and the Chicago Bulls prior to Michael Jordan. All you need is one successful era to turn a rabble into one of the premier teams in a competition.

Plus, people keep pointing out the failure of the Titans like it's a bad thing. If anything, that works in the Suns favour. A successful Suns team has a completely undersaturated market to capture.

 

[SnusCG]

Plus, people keep pointing out the failure of the Titans like it's a bad thing. If anything, that works in the Suns favour. A successful Suns team has a completely undersaturated market to capture.

I've posted this elsewhere before:

AFL participation in Queensland has increased from roughly 25'000 in 2007 to 252,000 in 2018.
AFL participation is rising more than double the national average on the Gold Coast since the club has come into existance
AFL participation rates in Queensland in 2018 overtook South Australia and NSW, and are already a long way in front of Tasmania, ACT and Northern Territory.
There are 710'000 people who have a permanent residence on the Gold Coast. Many who haven't followed AFL and actually have potential to grow the game. (this was always going to be a generational project)

The actual AFL plan on the Gold Coast is working, people just need to continue to be patient.