Did GCS stuff up by losing Jack Martin for nothing?

Catters 070911

Club Legend
Oct 13, 2017
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I still don't understand why GCS would let Jack Martin go to the PSD.

They might have not got what they wanted, but it is better getting even a fifth round pick then nothing at all.

The Suns say that they were making a stance, but what did it prove, when Martin got to the club he wanted regardless?

Where was this thread to re-draft him, and make him an example?

Also, it shows the lack of consistency of their whole draft policy. Last season, GCS traded Steven May out, even though he never said that he was leaving. He just didn't sign a new contract, even though he still had a year of his contract remaining.

Stewart Dew said that he took this stance because he only wanted to coach players who wanted to be there, but Jack Martin wanted to leave, and didn't want to be there, and yet they played games with him.

So they traded out a contracted player in May a year early to get something for him, even though he never expressed any wish to leave, yet let go of an uncontracted player, who did want to leave, and didn't even try to get something for him. Either the club massively overrates Martin, to not accept whatever deal Carlton made to them, or they continue to be a shambles, who can't stick to a consistent policy when it comes to players leaving.
 

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10571z

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 23, 2006
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I still don't understand why GCS would let Jack Martin go to the PSD.

They might have not got what they wanted, but it is better getting even a fifth round pick then nothing at all.

The Suns say that they were making a stance, but what did it prove, when Martin got to the club he wanted regardless?

Where was this thread to re-draft him, and make him an example?

Also, it shows the lack of consistency of their whole draft policy. Last season, GCS traded Steven May out, even though he never said that he was leaving. He just didn't sign a new contract, even though he still had a year of his contract remaining.

Stewart Dew said that he took this stance because he only wanted to coach players who wanted to be there, but Jack Martin wanted to leave, and didn't want to be there, and yet they played games with him.

So they traded out a contracted player in May a year early to get something for him, even though he never expressed any wish to leave, yet let go of an uncontracted player, who did want to leave, and didn't even try to get something for him. Either the club massively overrates Martin, to not accept whatever deal Carlton made to them, or they continue to be a shambles, who can't stick to a consistent policy when it comes to players leaving.
Who knows if Carlton even offered anything.

Maybe it still demonstrates to the players they won’t be traded for peanuts and they’ll need to take their chances in the pre season draft realistically only leaving them to go to a bottom club anyways
 

Catters 070911

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Who knows if Carlton even offered anything.

Maybe it still demonstrates to the players they won’t be traded for peanuts and they’ll need to take their chances in the pre season draft realistically only leaving them to go to a bottom club anyways

Well GCS players would be used to being at a bottom club.

Peanuts is better than nothing.
 

Kreuuuzeurns

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Sep 25, 2013
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The only way the “stand” made any sense was if they redrafted him. Which they clearly never would’ve for a number of reasons.

Ah Chee would’ve been a much better option. Only 4 years of service, hadn’t requested a trade two years in a row, arguably more valuable and would never have lasted 13 picks in the PSD. Not to mention he wanted a club that had actually ripped of GC in the past.

Alternatively, you can focus on breeding a culture that makes players want to stay, which is what most professional sporting clubs do.
 

master bate

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Aug 13, 2006
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If Carlton were only offering future 2nd and 3rd round picks then who cares? Take them, bank them, trade them back every year until eventually you can use them to upgrade a pick to get a player you want.

The footy community hasn't worked out just how out of control the Suns concessions have been.

Pick 2, pick 11 (traded for pick 27 to Geelong), a couple of extra 2nd rounders, then the academy players for free. Which has already yielded a couple of 3rd rounders and next year likely adds another first round pick for nothing.

Instead of the steady rebuilds with experienced players that saw Melbourne and Brisbane get themselves out of big holes the AFL has made sure the Suns either become a super team or screw with a whole bunch of young talent again. It's so backwards.

They've already cost themselves some decent value for Martin and cost themselves value with the Geelong trade. They became so asset rich overnight it's like lottery winners flashing cash.
 

PP34

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Oct 8, 2009
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For any other club it would be a terrible error of judgement.

For a club that has just been gifted a ridiculous amount of concessions it probably won’t mean much in the grand scheme of things. Well the missed pick at least.

But I think it could possibly set a precedent where clubs low ball the Suns in the hope they refuse to trade and lose more players for nothing.
 

radiojake

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Obviously it was over 15 years ago now, so it might not have any real effect anymore - But how do we think Port Adelaide went with getting value in their trades after they sent Nick Stevens to the draft all those years ago?

That was probably the last high profile pre-season draft case that wasn't the Tippett fiasco
 

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Topkent

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GC got unlucky that Carlton finished 3rd last. If they finished 9th then Martin would have gone somewhere else.

GC did the right thing.

I still don't understand why GCS would let Jack Martin go to the PSD.

They might have not got what they wanted, but it is better getting even a fifth round pick then nothing at all.

The Suns say that they were making a stance, but what did it prove, when Martin got to the club he wanted regardless?

Where was this thread to re-draft him, and make him an example?

Also, it shows the lack of consistency of their whole draft policy. Last season, GCS traded Steven May out, even though he never said that he was leaving. He just didn't sign a new contract, even though he still had a year of his contract remaining.

Stewart Dew said that he took this stance because he only wanted to coach players who wanted to be there, but Jack Martin wanted to leave, and didn't want to be there, and yet they played games with him.

So they traded out a contracted player in May a year early to get something for him, even though he never expressed any wish to leave, yet let go of an uncontracted player, who did want to leave, and didn't even try to get something for him. Either the club massively overrates Martin, to not accept whatever deal Carlton made to them, or they continue to be a shambles, who can't stick to a consistent policy when it comes to players leaving.
We offered more than fair value for May. Shit comparison.
 

unplugged

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GC got unlucky that Carlton finished 3rd last. If they finished 9th then Martin would have gone somewhere else.

GC did the right thing.



We offered more than fair value for May. Shit comparison.
Pretty much this. Not very often a player of (some) value is desperate to go to the third worst side of the year.
 

La Dispute

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It was a good strong stance right up until the second they traded pick 11 for pick 27. That’s when everyone realised, they don’t have a single clue what they’re doing.

Someone needs to take their crayons off them before they hurt themselves.
Bingo.

Their argument was ‘we don’t need another second round pick, we have enough 18 year olds on our list.’

So what do they do? Trade out a first round pick for a second round selection that lands them... an 18 year old.

The mind boggles.
 

Final Siren

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Aug 18, 2009
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Honestly, Gold Coast make me angry. The club is being run by clowns and has been from the beginning.

Every year they piss away draft picks and there's always a terrible excuse about why they think it's smart. They've said they don't value high draft picks because they already have plenty, they overpay on trades because they grossly overvalue a player's stated willingness to stay with a losing club, their fixture requests show they don't care about trying to get the team on an even playing field, and they alternate between playing tough at the trade table and folding.

They need assistance, but anything they're given is snatched away in trades and drafts by smarter clubs.

After watching my own club stumble around with morons at the helm for a couple of decades, I know what administrative bullshit smells like, and Gold Coast are knee-deep in it. I feel genuinely sorry for their fans.
 

Jeremias

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Of course they did. It's not even a discussion IMO.

It will not hurt them long-term (largely due to AFL backing) but losing good players for nothing isn't good for any club no matter which way they may choose to spin it.

They chose to 'take a stand' and make a statement, as is their right, but the whole idea behind that is laughable. Everyone can see through it - fans, players, managers, other clubs. Everyone.

Every player negotiation is different, every year is different. This won't make even the slightest difference when clubs negotiate with the Suns down the track. And you are kidding yourself if you think the Suns will happily continue to lose quality players for free, just to be seen to be taking a stand.

If they were to really 'take a stand' they would have redrafted Martin, which was never ever going to happen. Cochrane said it was a consideration but anyone with half a brain could see it wasn't. He is just full of hot air.

So yes, they clearly did stuff up. Everyone knows they did, it is obvious. But it doesn't matter to them and won't hurt them one iota.
 

Yojimbo

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The fabled "Mini Draft Crew" Jesse Hogan, Jack Martin, Jaeger O'Meara and Brad Crouch, only one remains at
the club that secured him Brad Crouch and even he did the "Show Me The Money" routine this year. A sad
statement of loyalty from a created and sanctioned bunch of mercenaries. You are the system that you create.
Yes Carlton should have paid a price to Gold Coast, but they were too busy digging the "Pit Of Obligation"
AKA the P.O.O what happens when you're neck deep in the P.O.O ?
 

Eagleboy2011

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I still don't understand why GCS would let Jack Martin go to the PSD.

They might have not got what they wanted, but it is better getting even a fifth round pick then nothing at all.

The Suns say that they were making a stance, but what did it prove, when Martin got to the club he wanted regardless?

Where was this thread to re-draft him, and make him an example?

Also, it shows the lack of consistency of their whole draft policy. Last season, GCS traded Steven May out, even though he never said that he was leaving. He just didn't sign a new contract, even though he still had a year of his contract remaining.

Stewart Dew said that he took this stance because he only wanted to coach players who wanted to be there, but Jack Martin wanted to leave, and didn't want to be there, and yet they played games with him.

So they traded out a contracted player in May a year early to get something for him, even though he never expressed any wish to leave, yet let go of an uncontracted player, who did want to leave, and didn't even try to get something for him. Either the club massively overrates Martin, to not accept whatever deal Carlton made to them, or they continue to be a shambles, who can't stick to a consistent policy when it comes to players leaving.
I hope the AFL watch Carltons salary cap closely. The offer was substantial for a player that was barely best 22 at GCS.
 

Final Siren

Mr Squiggle
Aug 18, 2009
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GC didn't stuff up by forcing him into the PSD - they stuffed up when they didn't pick him up in the PSD
They had to do one or the other.

Really, they should have taken a practical approach, like most clubs would have, and done a deal.

If they were insistent upon puffing up their chests and drawing a line in the sand, they should have foreseen where this was going to go, and stuck by it.

But no, they had to lose a player for nothing and set fire to their own credibility in the process.
 

ferrisb

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GC got unlucky that Carlton finished 3rd last. If they finished 9th then Martin would have gone somewhere else.

GC did the right thing.
We finished 3rd last well before trade week. They should have known they had a weak hand.

I don't mind GC trying to make a stand. I think it's one of those 'it will be worth it in the long run' things. I just think they chose the wrong example.

They picked a guy who was out of contract, had asked to be traded 2 years in a row, was dropped from the side because he had a foot out the door, was a year off free agency AND wanted to go to a team that had an early PSD pick. Basically they picked a fight they couldn't win.

I think it was right idea, poor execution.
 

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