Did GCS stuff up by losing Jack Martin for nothing?

[Scotland]

He is a c grader

He has coasted off being a highly rated junior and mini draft pick since day one.

Doesn't get a lot of the ball, not a big clearance winner, has kicked 20 goals in a season once and is not a big inside 50 player.

He's a poor man's Steven Motlop really. Except at his peak Motlop was in the 40 man AA squad so we've all seen what he can do.

 

[TwiggleyFanClub]

It was a good strong stance right up until the second they traded pick 11 for pick 27. That’s when everyone realised, they don’t have a single clue what they’re doing.

Someone needs to take their crayons off them before they hurt themselves.

 

[bmaurizio]

Some wild assertions circulating as to the skills level and football ability of Jack Martin.
There's gonna be some red faces as the 2020 season unfolds.

 

[Scotland]

Some wild assertions circulating as to the skills level and football ability of Jack Martin.
There's gonna be some red faces as the 2020 season unfolds.

Which wild assertions are these?

He is a very skillful player who in 6 seasons so far at AFL level has accomplished very little. He's only 24, plenty of footy ahead of him.

 

[Gavin Excell]

Which wild assertions are these?

He is a very skillful player who in 6 seasons so far at AFL level has accomplished very little. He's only 24, plenty of footy ahead of him.

And he has scope to improve output for sure.

But the return to date has been limited. Don’t think you anyone can argue that.

 

[Jen2310]

this could be correct but 9 was always needed if papley /daniher deals played out

And once the Daniher/Papley deal fell over, they still wouldn't give up 9. Yet in the end, they did, just during the draft and not the trade; so in the end, everyone got what they wanted.

 

[branedotorg]

And he has scope to improve output for sure.

But the return to date has been limited. Don’t think you anyone can argue that.

Don't know why you would either.

Hope a new environment helps him realise the potential

 

[Blues_Man]

As a Suns fan, it was worth it just to watch Carlton squirm. It meant they had to wait another month to get him & commit $2 million of their Salary Cap over the next 2 years to ensure Gold Coast or Melbourne didn't draft him. As has been mentioned, the deal Carlton offered was not worth anything to us. Maybe you think that's because the AFL gave us over-the-top concessions. I don't see it that way. We're not a team that has been around for 100 years & is just going through a bad patch. We're a new club in a non-traditional AFL state. The AFL set us up. The resources allocated to our setup didn't work, so they've given us some more. To me, these are not the normal concessions for an under-performing club. They are still part of the establishment costs.

It was always worth the risk when your club is on the AFL's tit...you can * up for years to come when you know you will be given charity

 

[Blues_Man]

That's the figure, it's a front loaded deal. Even Carlton fans have been attuned to this. It might not be "exactly" 2 million over 2, but it's essentially an enormously front loaded deal which probably priced some clubs out of contention and assured he got to Carlton.

Most don't realise that the salary cap has to be used somewhere

 

[footyfan1978]

Bingo.

Their argument was ‘we don’t need another second round pick, we have enough 18 year olds on our list.’

So what do they do? Trade out a first round pick for a second round selection that lands them... an 18 year old.

The mind boggles.

Yep, in effect they thrown away a future 2nd and 3rd round selection we would have traded them for Martin and now got nothing for him. It is like internally they said, we got an extra pick 11 next year anyway from AFL and a pick 2 and 22 from AFL this year, why do we need a second and third rounder next year too? AFL give us better gifts. Bugger that, let's just say no and hope Carlton are willing to trade pick 9 for him and we will give them pick 15.
Funnily enough on draft night they traded us that pick which became pick 17 after Liam Henry and Tom Green matching bids have Fremantle and GWS move up the draft order. So they traded us that pick and another a few picks later. Then they traded Geelong pick 11 next year to flash their cash around even more.
Well done AFL on these gifts Gold Coast valued so much and just got drunk on during trade and draft period.

They could have used these gifts plus a second and third rounder next year, so much better.
These mistakes hopefully are not made again by Suns.
Hopefully they make better use of the young stars on their list now of Ainsworth, King, Rankine, Lukosias, Rowell, Anderson and Flanders to leave all this stuff in past.
There is a great core there to build around despite these other mistakes made recently.

 

[Monkey King]

He is a very skillful player who in 6 seasons so far at AFL level has accomplished very little. He's only 24, plenty of footy ahead of him.

Totally agree. At 24 he’s still got time to turn it around, but GCS priced him as though he was 21yo and his potential as a junior still actually counted for something after 7 years in the system. I reckon they lost the plot for a minute there. Might’ve been able to use the “useless” picks Carlton offered to help get Sharp instead of palming off pick 11.

 

[WilloTree]

Totally agree. At 24 he’s still got time to turn it around, but GCS priced him as though he was 21yo and his potential as a junior still actually counted for something after 7 years in the system. I reckon they lost the plot for a minute there. Might’ve been able to use the “useless” picks Carlton offered to help get Sharp instead of palming off pick 11.

I heard they offered Pick 15 and Martin for Pick 9. Could just be just rumour though.

 

[AjsGuns]

He hasn't lived up to the hype, was supposed to be a once in a generational talent. Hyped more than Rankine. We almost traded #5 and #6 (Stringer & Macrae) for him. Bullet dodged.

Good get for free though.

 

[Monkey King]

I heard they offered Pick 15 and Martin for Pick 9. Could just be just rumour though.

That was the first report. It came out shortly after that Carlton’s future second was also involved.

 

[PP34]

Don't mind it to a degree. Means players can't just serve 2 years and then automatically get to where they want. Don't think either club was wrong in their offerings though

Huh?

How on earth will their stupid stance stop anything long term?

Are you missing the part where Martin still ended up elsewhere?

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Huh?

How on earth will their stupid stance stop anything long term?

Are you missing the part where Martin still ended up elsewhere?

A second rounder was largely useless. They were done after their 3 top 11 selections basically.

What this means is that players at GC will know that you can't just pack up and leave. It builds a good culture. It's a small pain for a longer term gain. Carlton were well in their rights to offer what they did, they got their player anyway, but GC did nothing wrong either especially looking towards the mid to long term.

 

[Ghost of Punt Road]

He is a rich man's Jarrod Pickett.

 

[PP34]

A second rounder was largely useless. They were done after their 3 top 11 selections basically.

What this means is that players at GC will know that you can't just pack up and leave. It builds a good culture. It's a small pain for a longer term gain. Carlton were well in their rights to offer what they did, they got their player anyway, but GC did nothing wrong either especially looking towards the mid to long term.

But a player packed up and left and got to where he wanted to go. Their stance did nothing except delay things for a month or so.

Absolutely laughable if you think this kind of thing has players wanting to stick around at Gold Coast. Players leave for vastly different reasons.

Players will continue to leave Gold Coast until they get their s**t together.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

But a player packed up and left and got to where he wanted to go. Their stance did nothing except delay things for a month or so.

Absolutely laughable if you think this kind of thing has players wanting to stick around at Gold Coast. Players leave for vastly different reasons.

Players will continue to leave Gold Coast until they get their s**t together.

I applaud them for not just rolling over and taking a scrap pick, that's all a second rounder was. They would have traded him if they got a late first, that would have been about right. No issue with them standing firm. Similarly you did that with Gibbs...

 

[PP34]

Which wild assertions are these?

He is a very skillful player who in 6 seasons so far at AFL level has accomplished very little. He's only 24, plenty of footy ahead of him.

I think he has ability, it just remains to be seen if he can get the best out of himself.

He wouldn’t be the first Gold Coast player to look better at another club.

 

[PP34]

I applaud them for not just rolling over and taking a scrap pick, that's all a second rounder was. They would have traded him if they got a late first, that would have been about right. No issue with them standing firm. Similarly you did that with Gibbs...

You sound like you work for the Gold Coast. Second round picks have currency, and can be used in a number of ways. The idea that they are useless is hilarious.

Comparing this situation to the Gibbs one is absolutely laughable too. The only reason SOS held firm and didn’t trade him was because he was contracted. He got traded a year later and Carlton got a better haul because Adelaide were more desperate. Jack Martin was without a contract.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

You sound like you work for the Gold Coast. Second round picks have currency, and can be used in a number of ways. The idea that they are useless is hilarious.

Comparing this situation to the Gibbs one is absolutely laughable too. The only reason SOS held firm and didn’t trade him was because he was contracted. He got traded a year later and Carlton got a better haul because Adelaide were more desperate. Jack Martin was without a contract.

A second rounder was useless this year- they took a late pick for a needs based selection after their 3 first round selections. A second rounder wasn’t going to help them. It might as well have been a late 4th they were just as useless.

 

[PP34]

A second rounder was useless this year- they took a late pick for a needs based selection after their 3 first round selections. A second rounder wasn’t going to help them. It might as well have been a late 4th they were just as useless.

It could have been used in a trade to get a different pick in this draft, they could have got a player or they could have traded it for something in the future.

You can’t just say a pick is useless. A smart team might have done something worthwhile with it. Gold Coast continually does stupid s**t like this when it comes to picks.

Like when they traded away pick 2 for the mediocre Lachie Weller because he was a rare player interested in going there.

 

[jezzajay]

A second rounder was useless this year- they took a late pick for a needs based selection after their 3 first round selections. A second rounder wasn’t going to help them. It might as well have been a late 4th they were just as useless.

Yet they traded a first rounder from next year to get a second rounder this year...go figure!
Yet here you are saying that a second rounder this year was useless - which they needed to get Sharp who they wanted.
But the second rounder Carlton offered to the suns was 'useless'!? Suns could have held next years pick 11 had they gone through with what Carlton offered for Martin.
Does this not say something to you!? Do you need help in trying to understand how perplexing the Suns stance was?

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Yet they traded a first rounder from next year to get a second rounder this year...go figure!
Yet here you are saying that a second rounder this year was useless - which they needed to get Sharp who they wanted.
But the second rounder Carlton offered to the suns was 'useless'!? Suns could have held next years pick 11 had they gone through with what Carlton offered for Martin.
Does this not say something to you!? Do you need help in trying to understand how perplexing the Suns stance was?

Next years mid comp is probably closer to a very late first anyway with all academy and what not. It’s practically a straight swap with 10% on top in Geelongs favour. It’s not much. Their academy selections are also pre listed as rookies as per the package. That pick 11 (or whatever it ends up being) wasn’t as big a price to pay.

They still would have had to trade up for Sharp anyway.