Did GCS stuff up by losing Jack Martin for nothing?

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PetterdHoisted

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Apr 27, 2014
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Good stance taken by GCS, will pay dividends in the future, players will know their future is uncertain if they white ant the club.

Good salary dump for Carlton, very hard with a long term bottom 4 list and current TPP rules to justify the wages of so many under-performers. JM is as good a place as any on Carltons list to park 1 mill per year TPP.

win-win.
 
Sep 16, 2014
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Good stance taken by GCS, will pay dividends in the future, players will know their future is uncertain if they white ant the club.

Good salary dump for Carlton, very hard with a long term bottom 4 list and current TPP rules to justify the wages of so many under-performers. JM is as good a place as any on Carltons list to park 1 mill per year TPP.

win-win.
What do you mean by long term bottom four list, is six months long term?
 

PetterdHoisted

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What do you mean by long term bottom four list, is six months long term?
Sorry, well forget the ladder, let's just say for Carlton it has been a historically bad time, setting club records for numbers of game without kicking 100 points, etc.

I just mean in their situation you should pay Cripps and a few others about 4 mill/year and then most others 150k, but reality is a lot of list cloggers get paid way overs due to TPP rules.

So I don't see it as bad at all to pay 1mill/year to Martin in the next two years even if he does not much
 

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I hope the AFL watch Carltons salary cap closely. The offer was substantial for a player that was barely best 22 at GCS.

Oh sweet jesus.
We have been well under the cap for a number of years now in the hope we could lure a Coniglio or someone similar.
I'd be more worried about your cap to be fair.
 
As a Suns fan, it was worth it just to watch Carlton squirm. It meant they had to wait another month to get him & commit $2 million of their Salary Cap over the next 2 years to ensure Gold Coast or Melbourne didn't draft him. As has been mentioned, the deal Carlton offered was not worth anything to us. Maybe you think that's because the AFL gave us over-the-top concessions. I don't see it that way. We're not a team that has been around for 100 years & is just going through a bad patch. We're a new club in a non-traditional AFL state. The AFL set us up. The resources allocated to our setup didn't work, so they've given us some more. To me, these are not the normal concessions for an under-performing club. They are still part of the establishment costs.

Meh. He was always going to come to us in the PSD. Not a snowflakes chance in hell your lot were going to re-draft him, and he said a big no thanks to Melbourne when they made their first enquiry. Yes we are paying him alot, but we have plenty of space and we have to spend it somewhere. And his contract drops big time from his 3rd year onwards.
 

Monument Hills

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yes. If a player wants out, for whatever the reason, they will be going in the current environment. All you can do is try and get the most in compensation without spitting the dummy as I'm sure it will benefit you back the other way with a different player at some point in the future.
 

HTPunter

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Absolutely. What point were they trying to prove?

Would have been good to have a late 1st rounder for Martin and 27, then they get Jeremy Sharp and keep next year's pick.

Ridiculous grandstanding, he was not the player to make a stand on. An average flanker (average as in medium output, not as in bad) who hasn't exactly been touted as some heart and soul leader. He's the exact type of uncontracted player I'd let leave for a pick that's less than ideal.

Fighting over his deal cost them a first rounder in the end. I understand they rated Sharp highly, but they could have turned Martin into Sharp, instead of Martin and a first rounder for Sharp.
 

Rich01

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So he will be at Carlton for 2 years then demand to be traded.
Doubt it. His career will be defined by what he does at Carlton.

Touted as one of the best ever juniors, he’s underperformed at Gold Coast.

If he continues the trajectory he will be seen as a disappointment. Going to a third club means he hasn’t lived up to his potential. Plus Carlton are paying him exceptional coin. Jack and Carlton are expecting he produces more than he currently has shown in his career.
 
Jun 19, 2018
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Doubt it. His career will be defined by what he does at Carlton.

Touted as one of the best ever juniors, he’s underperformed at Gold Coast.

If he continues the trajectory he will be seen as a disappointment. Going to a third club means he hasn’t lived up to his potential. Plus Carlton are paying him exceptional coin. Jack and Carlton are expecting he produces more than he currently has shown in his career.
holy s**t i agree with you for once.
 

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GordonBlue

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Maybe they are just sick of being soft targets for clubs to poach their players?

Jack Martin is 24 and reportedly now on a 5 year, $600k deal. What did Carlton offer in a trade? Reportedly 2020 2nd + 3rd picks.

Compare that to Tim Kelly who is 25 and reportedly now on anywhere from $600-800k over 5 or 6 years. We got that trade done early putting a heap of picks in play.

Now obviously Kelly is better, but I doubt Geelong would've taken us seriously if we had said 'OK we want 14 for the draft, and 24 for this trade, and then next year's pick we'd prefer to keep... etc'. In the end Gold Coast used 1, 2, 11, 27 at the draft. If the best Carlton were offering was future second and third round picks in the NGA draft then where is the motivation for Gold Coast to trade? Carlton had too many irons in the fire and ended up missing targets because of it. Let Carlton navigate the PSD and use $1m in 2020 and 2021 in order to get him. One less club with cap space to be a nuisance next year.
You're literally comparing a player that is pretty much one of the best in the league, to a player that was dropped from the Gold Coast team!

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GordonBlue

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As a Suns fan, it was worth it just to watch Carlton squirm. It meant they had to wait another month to get him & commit $2 million of their Salary Cap over the next 2 years to ensure Gold Coast or Melbourne didn't draft him. As has been mentioned, the deal Carlton offered was not worth anything to us. Maybe you think that's because the AFL gave us over-the-top concessions. I don't see it that way. We're not a team that has been around for 100 years & is just going through a bad patch. We're a new club in a non-traditional AFL state. The AFL set us up. The resources allocated to our setup didn't work, so they've given us some more. To me, these are not the normal concessions for an under-performing club. They are still part of the establishment costs.
You gave up pick 27 for pick 11. You could have given up future 2nd and future 3rd for Pick 27. Your stance cost you Pick 11.

We gained a player and kept our picks for next year for the sake of paying above our minimum salary cap?

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GordonBlue

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Carlton offered them picks they wouldn't be able to use anyway because of list space. GC countered with a pick upgrade, which if I remember correctly was worth fewer points than the picks Carlton offered (not that points matter but it's a guide).

GC would have gotten no benefit from the trade anyway. While losing jack Martin for nothing may not have benefitted GC for this year, perhaps it will make clubs come to the table better in future. For example, if a club that finished mid table wants one of their players, low balling and knowing GC might just send the player to the draft may be a much bigger risk, so they may come to the table properly.
They gave up future pick 11 for a mid 2nd round pick.

Future 2nd and 3rd would have got that deal made.

Draft picks can be traded you know? Imagine that!

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GordonBlue

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Which wild assertions are these?

He is a very skillful player who in 6 seasons so far at AFL level has accomplished very little. He's only 24, plenty of footy ahead of him.
I agree. I think his output to date is barely average. I hope he improves, but every single player has that same ability ... hopeful of improving.

It comes back to why Carlton's offer was fair and reasonable

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MadMundy

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Yes and no. yes because they lost a pretty good player who was a core part of the team. No because they're bringing in the right young players who they can build the club around to hopefully make a push at finals in the future.
 
According to Cal, GCS did actually offer 15,20 and Martin to Carlton but silvagni reject it during trade period, he mention the offer started way back in October.

Their (Carlton) last call was to Gold Coast, who had been offering picks 15 and 20 for pick No.9 since October's trade period

Gold Coast offered 15 and 20 for 9 after the trade period. Purely a pick swap.

The rumour was that they offered 15, 20 and Martin for 9 and our 2021 1st rounder. No way were we doing that.
 
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Carlton offered more.

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I cant remember how it all panned out.

But agree GC may as well have taken Carlton's offer. Although it seems the GC dont give 2 shits about draft picks because they expect the afl will just hand them more freebies for any they waste?

The idea of 'making a stand' is total garbage imo. The reality is 12 months is so long in footy that nobody really cares or remembers what happened in the previous draft period. Just do the best deal at the time and move on.
 

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