- Jul 13, 2015
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Swapping pick 1 for 3 x 1st round would make sense for a team that desperately needs a bunch of young talent.
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Opinion Did Taranto and Hopper make a mistake leaving the Giants for Richmond?
- Thread starter GC2015
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Swapping pick 1 for 3 x 1st round would make sense for a team that desperately needs a bunch of young talent.
- Apr 18, 2005
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No idea, just saw him play a bit against us and he looked good
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- Mar 2, 2015
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There's the old question: if a tree falls in the forest and nobody was there to hear it, would it make a sound?
Similarly in the AFL, if a team played in the finals and nobody was there to cheer them, would there be any buzz?
Taranto and Hopper played in front of more people in their first 6 games for Richmond than the Giants did for the entire 2022 season... and the Giants probably have fewer fans cheering for them at their home games than the opposition does. (Virtually nil at their away games.)
You can't blame professional footballers for wanting to feel the adrenaline of having thousands of fans cheering them on. Let's be real... It's not as though Hopper & Taranto are going to miss out on playing in a premiership for the Giants. So who cares if they miss out on a playing in a couple of dud finals in Week 1 of September? That'll probably even out anyway over the next 7 years.
I reckon when they're finished playing AFL footy, Hopper and Taranto will feel more fulfilled about their careers than guys like Whitfield and Kelly who played their entire careers for an expansion franchise and never sampled what it was like to play for a proper club in front of big crowds.
2022
25,572... GWS v Syd, Olympic Stadium
28,813... Rich v GWS, MCG
_4,014... GWS v G.C, Giants Stadium
30,201... Freo v GWS, Perth
20,791... Melb v GWS, MCG
11,207... GWS v St K, Canberra
31,811... Adel v GWS, Adelaide Oval
11,661... GWS v Geel, Canberra
_8,754... GWS v Carl, Giants Stadium
_5,057... GWS v WCE, Giants Stadium
22,068... Bris v GWS, Gabba
13,742... N.M v GWS, Marvel Stadium
_6,208... GWS v W.B, Giants Stadium
30,804... Coll v GWS, MCG
_4,812... GWS v Haw, Giants Stadium
24,744... Port v GWS, Adelaide Oval
_9,010... GWS v Bris, Canberra
30,295... Carl v GWS, Marvel Stadium
31,916... Syd v GWS, SCG
_7,772... GWS v Ess, Giants Stadium
18,301... W.B v GWS, Marvel Stadium
_7,338... GWS v Freo, Canberra
_______
384,891
2023
88,084... Rich v Carl, MCG
38,492... Adel v Rich, Adelaide Oval
85,241... Coll v Rich, MCG
56,449... Rich v W.B, MCG
42,134... Rich v Syd, Adelaide Oval
83,985... Melb v Rich, MCG
_______
394,385
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Colonial
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Of course it makes a sound, you’d be ignorant to think otherwise and arrogant to say no just because you’re not there.
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Not a KP though...
- Apr 18, 2005
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Thought he might have been. Looks good.
- Mar 2, 2015
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Wow! I've never thought of it like that. You just might be onto something.
No seriously... It's not as simple as you think and it has nothing to do with arrogance.
Greater minds than ours have pondered this metaphysical question about the nature of reality and perception.
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It's an interesting one. I guess it's the same as O'Meara leaving GC for Hawthorn when they were coming out of a premiership era. If he stayed at the GC he still wouldn't have won anything. It's obviously pretty hard for GC and GWS to win a flag going forward. They can't really recruit a May/Lever, Lynch, Cameron type in their prime from other clubs. So they pretty much need to draft an entire premiership team. Obviously GWS have had a top 4 team in the past but that was on their startup package, it will be much harder next time.
- Oct 31, 2016
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Why has GWS beaten Swans in the 3 finals they have played then?
Kobe Gryant
🇵🇸/ '07 - '09 - '11 - '22
It all depends on what they wanted.
If they wanted long term financial security, big crowds and living in Melbourne then they'd be loving it right now.
If they wanted immediate premiership success, Collingwood or Geelong probably would've been the better choices, but by all reports their offers weren't in the same ballpark.
It's not as deep as we want to make it out to be. Some players are genuinely happy making big money and living in their city of choice. Not every player is a footy nuffie who requires a premiership to function as a human being.
I doubt Taranto and Hopper are crying themselves to sleep over it if that's what they desired. Plenty of time to go on the deals too.
If they wanted long term financial security, big crowds and living in Melbourne then they'd be loving it right now.
If they wanted immediate premiership success, Collingwood or Geelong probably would've been the better choices, but by all reports their offers weren't in the same ballpark.
It's not as deep as we want to make it out to be. Some players are genuinely happy making big money and living in their city of choice. Not every player is a footy nuffie who requires a premiership to function as a human being.
I doubt Taranto and Hopper are crying themselves to sleep over it if that's what they desired. Plenty of time to go on the deals too.
- Aug 18, 2009
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This is spot on
Prestia has looked completely lost with Hopper in the side
& yes Cotch is cooked, but his one wood is in & under & if he was required in this role based on personnel it wouldn't be so stark & we could be focusing on celebrating his approaching 300th
We would still be languishing regardless this season, but the outlook with a high first round pick & a fit Gibcus in 2024 would give a lot of hope we can start a rebuild on the fly
Playing the futures market & having a horror season is the death zone
- Oct 31, 2016
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The Melbourne clubs with the best prospects between 2024 to 2028 are probably Essendon, Carlton given all their top10 picks 26 or younger.
I think those would be better choices.
However having played finals in most of their GWS years, you can't blame both TT and JH from wanting to go somewhere with in theory good prospects for 2023 to 2024.
I mean I thought Jeremy Cameron made a mistake going to Geelong but it has worked out very well. Unfortunately Richmond's key players from their flags are not playing nearly as well/ are injured compared to Geelongs key players at the ages of 31+. Hawkins must have kicked almost more goals than any other player in his 30's on the history of the game ( apart from Ablett senior with 3 100 goal seasons in his 30's). Same for Danger and Brownlow votes.
I think those would be better choices.
However having played finals in most of their GWS years, you can't blame both TT and JH from wanting to go somewhere with in theory good prospects for 2023 to 2024.
I mean I thought Jeremy Cameron made a mistake going to Geelong but it has worked out very well. Unfortunately Richmond's key players from their flags are not playing nearly as well/ are injured compared to Geelongs key players at the ages of 31+. Hawkins must have kicked almost more goals than any other player in his 30's on the history of the game ( apart from Ablett senior with 3 100 goal seasons in his 30's). Same for Danger and Brownlow votes.
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- Thread starter
- #67
That's a possible explanation as to why they moved to a Melbourne-based club, but not an explanation as to why they both chose Richmond. If it was purely about crowds then either of them would have had the option to move to another Melbourne-based club like Collingwood, Carlton or Essendon and they would get the opportunity to play in front of big crowds most weeks.
Let me ask - do you think Jaeger O'Meara and/or Tom Mitchell regret joining Hawthorn when they did in 2017? Sure, both got the opportunity to play in front of big crowds on a semi-regular basis but played very little finals football during their peak years from 23 years of age to 29. Now both are about to enter their 30s and have left Hawthorn. It's probably not a coincidence that both ended up at clubs that finished top 5 last year in Collingwood and Fremantle.
I’d happily take Samson Ryan
- Jul 15, 2014
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But isn’t that what the thread is about when the OP said “Did Taranto and Hopper make a mistake leaving the Giants for Richmond”? I just answered that question and added a few things.
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Well, now you're asking a completely different question.
Did Taranto and Hopper make a mistake choosing Richmond over Collingwood, Carlton or Essendon?
The answer to that is possibly, probably... Although it was Richmond who chased hard after their signatures, as far as I can recall. I wasn't paying close attention last October during trade week. Were there any other clubs even in the frame? They are both on serious coin. I'm pretty sure none of those other clubs had the salary cap space to accomodate them, so it was never really an option for them to go elsewhere.
I mentioned the attendance figures just to illustrate the stark difference between the Giants and the big Melbourne-based clubs. Hopper and Taranto had been with the Giants for 6 or 7 years and wanted a change of scenery. Why wouldn't they go to a club like Richmond? It's a the polar opposite of the AFL's soulless, made-for-television, Sydney franchise.
Some footballers probably enjoy being out of the limelight. A guy like Toby Greene, if he played for a Victorian club, he would probably cop it from rival fans everywhere he went. Who needs that constant aggravation? Buddy Franklin certainly got fed up with it, which is one of the big reasons why he left. The Giants are a perfect fit for Greene. He's happy to play AFL footy on the weekend and then be able to walk down the street, do normal stuff and not be recognised. Others probably feel less fulfilled playing for a club that nobody seemingly gives a shit about. They want to experience big time football in the Melbourne fishbowl. YOLO, etc..
I think it's silly to question their decision after just 7 games. Richmond were not exactly flag favourites just because they signed the GWS on-ballers. If it was purely about going to a team who presented them with the best chance of winning a premiership in 2023/24, then they would've been better off signing with Melbourne or Geelong. They weren't jumping on board with a ready-made flag contender like Tom Lynch did. I think they would've been realistic about the challenge ahead to get the mid-table Tigers back into premiership contention.
Jaeger O'Meara and Tom Mitchell left their clubs for different reasons. They both joined Hawthorn because the Hawks chased after them pretty hard. I think you're underestimating this side of things. Players don't shop around for a new club like they're shopping for clothes. Chris Judd did. Not many others. Players go to where they are wanted; where they are heavily courted by another coach who believes in them. They go where the money is good and where they think they'll fit in and get the best out of themselves.
O'Meara's career was going nowhere with Gold Coast. Leaving aside all the issues faced by that footy club, O'Meara didn't even know if he'd get back to full fitness with his bung knee. The reports were he wasn't happy with the rehabilitation and his career was in jeopardy. Hawthorn presented him with a good alternative of getting his once-promising career back on track. Which he did... And now with the Hawks in rebuild mode and emphasising their youth, the time was right for him to return home to Perth.
Tom Mitchell left Sydney because he wanted to play in the centre. He felt he belonged in the midfield A-rotation, but his coach didn't see it that way. The Swans had their premiership stalwarts Kennedy, Parker, Hannebery and Jack ahead of him in the pecking order. I don't know if there was any truth about him and Longmire having a strained relationship, but it was definitely true the Swans didn't value him as highly as they should've. He spent his early 20's in and out of the senior team. He was often left rotting away in the NEAFL, racking up 50-60 possessions for the seconds team. At Hawthorn, he became an elite A-grade player, won 3 best and fairests, the league MVP award and a Brownlow Medal.
Neither player had an ounce of regret about joining Hawthorn, despite playing in just one finals series in their 6 years there. They both said they loved their time at the club.
It's important to note that Sam Mitchell pulled a bit of a Longmire move in 2022 when he gave Tom Mitchell fewer centre square minutes than he would've liked and let it be known he was open to trading to him. Again, this goes back to what I said about players needing to feel wanted by their club and highly valued by their coach. (e.g. Taranto & Hopper at Richmond.) Hawthorn was rebuilding and putting games into their kids, whereas Craig McRae let Tom Mitchell know he was a missing piece of Collingwood's premiership puzzle and he wanted him at the coal-face, getting the ball out to DeGoey, Sidebottom and Daicos.
It's a win-win for everyone... Tom & the Pies are happy. Hawks are happy too with their refashioned midfield of Newcombe, Day, Nash and Worpel all stepping up & playing their best footy and kids like Ward, Mackenzie and MacDonald also being given plenty of opportunities.
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Kobe Gryant
🇵🇸/ '07 - '09 - '11 - '22
This post could have been made 10-15 years ago, and yet look where they are. It's bordering on pointless predicting years out in advance.
Richmond, rightly, could argue that their next flag is closer due to them being a very well run footy club with a track record of recent success.
Nobody would have predicted in 2015 that a Geelong premiership was closer than Fremantle, Adelaide, Port, Sydney, GWS, Collingwood etc.
See how easy it is? When looking years into the future you can build a case for just about any club.
- Nov 28, 2017
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I don't think people understand where our list is at.
We are losing so much experience in the next couple of years.
Riewoldt, Cotchin, Prestia, Martin, Grimes, Broad, McIntosh, Vlastuin, Tarrant.
We lost Lambert, Edwards & Caddy last year the year before Houli
The year before that Grigg their is no easy way to do this.
You have to have some mature bodies around "Taranto & Hopper"
You want us to just field 22-23 kids each week and be a non-competitive joke like North of the competition?
We are losing so much experience in the next couple of years.
Riewoldt, Cotchin, Prestia, Martin, Grimes, Broad, McIntosh, Vlastuin, Tarrant.
We lost Lambert, Edwards & Caddy last year the year before Houli
The year before that Grigg their is no easy way to do this.
You have to have some mature bodies around "Taranto & Hopper"
You want us to just field 22-23 kids each week and be a non-competitive joke like North of the competition?
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- Apr 18, 2005
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If you were standing in a forest and a tree fell, it’d make a sound. Yes? You’d hear it. All you’re doing is then removing yourself and repeating the same situation. Does it make a sound? Yes. Do you hear it? No.Wow! I've never thought of it like that. You just might be onto something.
No seriously... It's not as simple as you think and it has nothing to do with arrogance.
Greater minds than ours have pondered this metaphysical question about the nature of reality and perception.
Black and white.
MVille Swan
Senior List
Exactly. Most players know it's unlikely they'll ever win a flag. It's mostly about the money and enjoying the week-to-week of being a
footballer. Same as any job really.
9874123
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Dunning-Kruger effect on full display here folks. Bet you also have strong views on a certain Austrian cat.
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