Autopsy Did we get a fair trade with Beams? (post# 341 Dayne lost his Dad)

[Mkcaptain]

Has there been a precedent of a first year player being demoted to the rookie list?

Peter Yagmoor was I think

 

[Big Bryza]

I'm with TG on Sier to a degree. If final list lodgements were made immediately following the season he'd find himself demoted to the rookie list, IMO. A lot can change between now and then, but that's my current expectation come years end. It's not so much because of his low production I just can't identify a single area in his game that he improved pre-injury and at his age improvement is a must!

That being said I do believe the decision to recruit him was sound because the player I would have taken we got with our next pick in Phillips.

What Sier really needs is for us to lift our game significantly in the area of development. Currently we're bottom four in that regard for mine. In the right environment he'll blossom so I can support the decision to bring him 100% if we plan to right the wrongs in our development program.

On the Beams trade nothing has changed for me to consider it anything other than a fair deal because I'd personally give all of JDG, Crisp and Greenwood to have the snake in the grass back...

You bang on about player development a lot.

Give us an outline of what the club is doing wrong and what you'd do to fix it.


Beams was a one way footballer. JDG will be a better version of him 2018 onwards, the boy loves to tackle.

 

[Apex36]

$400K ???

The average AFL salary is $250K (salary cap of around $11 million divided by 44 players - our Cat B players Cox and Wyatt are outside the salary cap)

Some players would be getting paid more than that average of $250K (Cloke, Pendlebury, Treloar, Sidebottom, Swan, Reid, etc, etc)

Some players would be getting paid less than that average of $250K (Wills, Philips, Maynard, Golds, Smith, etc, etc)

Would have have thought Aish would be getting paid somewhere around average?

With Carlton and North also Interested in Aish. I think we had to pay Tad Overs and I remember reading somewhere the Number was around 400

Brisbane were reportedly offering $400k for him to stay, while North reportedly offered $500k at the last minute in an attempt to lure him away from Collingwood.
Obviously those numbers haven't been confirmed, and there's no proof that we offered as much, or more than Brisbane.

Fwiw, the number I heard was around the $350k mark.

 

[76woodenspooners]

You gotta pay overs to get a player multiple clubs were chasing..

Aish will be on very good money no doubt

IIRC Aish had already made a decision to come to us - North were very late to the party and the only reason they were in it was because they were offering Brisbane more. Aish's manager (Pickering?) strong armed North into falling line by holding up another deal on them.

I didn't know that Carlton were interested, but even if they were, not sure a bidding war would have been required? - there were looking like an utter basket-case at the time of the trade period last year (15 list changes)

Given the average AFL salary is around $250K ... I'd be super surprised if we're paying him more than $300K

 

[76woodenspooners]

Brisbane were reportedly offering $400k for him to stay, while North reportedly offered $500k at the last minute in an attempt to lure him away from Collingwood.
Obviously those numbers haven't been confirmed, and there's no proof that we offered as much, or more than Brisbane.

Fwiw, the number I heard was around the $350k mark.

I know they're just reports ...

... but paying a third year wingman 5% of the club's salary cap (North's claimed offer) seems insane.

 

[Apex36]

I know they're just reports ...

... but paying a third year wingman 5% of the club's salary cap (North's claimed offer) seems insane.

Yep. There were plenty of unhappy North fans when the news broke. It was a move made at the last minute, and they basically tried to make it too good to refuse given Aish had already had his heart set on Collingwood. I have a sneaky feeling Brisbane might have offered $200k to North to supplement his salary in an attempt to screw over Collingwood. There was a distinct air of unhappiness at the idea of losing a young, top 10 pick to the pies just one year after they 'won' the battle for Beams.

 

[Bay Pie]

With Carlton and North also Interested in Aish. I think we had to pay Tad Overs and I remember reading somewhere the Number was around 400

It was reported at the time, our deal with Aisho was less than what NM offered.

 

[TradeDraft]

IIRC Aish had already made a decision to come to us - North were very late to the party and the only reason they were in it was because they were offering Brisbane more. Aish's manager (Pickering?) strong armed North into falling line by holding up another deal on them.

I didn't know that Carlton were interested, but even if they were, not sure a bidding war would have been required? - there were looking like an utter basket-case at the time of the trade period last year (15 list changes)

Given the average AFL salary is around $250K ... I'd be super surprised if we're paying him more than $300K

Carlton had talked to Aish during the Season. Video of it on YouTube.

Pickering told lions the Bastanac trade would not be done until Aish goes to Collingwood

 

[TradeDraft]

It was reported at the time, our deal with Aisho was less than what NM offered.

That is what I heard. Think north offered around 500k to Aish

 

[mike123]

Has there been a precedent of a first year player being demoted to the rookie list?

Yagmoor?

 

[Kappa]

IIRC Aish had already made a decision to come to us - North were very late to the party and the only reason they were in it was because they were offering Brisbane more. Aish's manager (Pickering?) strong armed North into falling line by holding up another deal on them.

I didn't know that Carlton were interested, but even if they were, not sure a bidding war would have been required? - there were looking like an utter basket-case at the time of the trade period last year (15 list changes)

Given the average AFL salary is around $250K ... I'd be super surprised if we're paying him more than $300K

Prepare to be super surprised, as the AFL's average salary was actually over 300k in 2015 (so even higher in 2016).

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2016-02-12/afl-players-average-salaries-top-300k-for-the-first-time.

Top 10 draft picks also just naturally get offered more than your average player in their 3rd year contracts

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Aish and picks 34, 53 for
Picks 26, 28, 47 and a future 2nd round pick

Edit: So in other words we gave up two 2nd picks in the late 20's, and downgraded our 2nd and 4th round picks. Probably paid double his worth I'd say.

26 and a late second round 2017 pick effectively. Definitely paid up but for a second year top ten draft pick thats a fair price. After all we traded Freeman (same draft as Aish) for that second round pick.

So its pick 26 and Freeman. Very fair trade. Brisbane got slightly overs but we boned StKilda.

 

[TradeDraft]

26 and a late second round 2017 pick effectively. Definitely paid overs but for a second year top ten draft pick thats a fair price. After all we traded Freeman (same draft as Aish) for that second round pick.

So its pick 26 and Freeman. Very fair trade. Brisbane got slightly overs but we boned StKilda.

and Last Draft was seen as a Weak one

 

[Mateyman]

Not sure of the logic in comparing the development of a young KPF in Josh Kennedy with Aish... KPF are slower to develop than midfielders usually. Aish was also a player who was playing SAFL football as a teen and dominating and had 30+ games of AFL under his belt before coming to the club... he should be ready made in terms of effort and ball winning ability and not on the verge of potentially being dropped for a spell in the VFL for the second time this season.

Also don't agree with your dismissing of two second round picks as amounting to little. Players like Greenwood, Varcoe and Howe have come to the club for 2nd round picks in the mid to late 20s.... those picks are an opportunity to trade for an experienced player or even in hindsight use them as part of the Treloar trade. The benefit of hindsight hey...

The only player of the 3 you mentioned that involved a 2nd rounder was Greenwood, and he hasn't really been great for us anyway.
Also the point about Kennedy is that young players take a while to develop. I could've used Dane Swan if you wanted a midfielder. He is a 3rd year player who has a lot of develop left to go. The fact is it's a question o whether you'd prefer him or a stab at a pick around 20. Personally I would prefer Aish to a player around the caliber of Brayden Fiorini, but we will have to see what happens. Most 2nd rounders don't make it.

 

[Baltimore Jack]

Peter Yagmoor was I think

Farmer too I believe

 

[Anzacday]

Condolences...
Philip Beams, the father of Brisbane Lions players Dayne and Claye Beams, has passed away after a prolonged battle with of bowel cancer.

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/dayne-beams-father-passes-away-20180302-p4z2jm.html

 

[jackcass]

Condolences...
Philip Beams, the father of Brisbane Lions players Dayne and Claye Beams, has passed away after a prolonged battle with of bowel cancer.

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/dayne-beams-father-passes-away-20180302-p4z2jm.html

Heard that last night. Very sad for the Beams family.

Does make those who said he went to Brisbane for the money rather than just wanting to be closer to family look a little silly.

 

[soreplums]

Spewing the future trade rules didn't come in yet. Would have landed two first rounders which would have opened up a lot of doors for us with the Treloar trade given it would have been pick 2.

 

[Robroy22]

Condolences Beamer.

 

[Hollow Knight]

Spewing the future trade rules didn't come in yet. Would have landed two first rounders which would have opened up a lot of doors for us with the Treloar trade given it would have been pick 2.

We would never have given up that.

 

[soreplums]

We would never have given up that.

You wouldn't have known that you'd have pick 2. You would have expected a rise up the ladder.
Would have been two first rounders with us giving you a second round back.

 

[Jasper84]

We would never have given up that.

How about we all just pay respect during this rough period for the Beams family?

 

[Hollow Knight]

You wouldn't have known that you'd have pick 2. You would have expected a rise up the ladder.
Would have been two first rounders with us giving you a second round back.

We had Hipwood and Keays coming in the following draft. We wouldn’t have compromised that. We had the tools to get it done that trade period and did.

 

[soreplums]

We had Hipwood and Keays coming in the following draft. We wouldn’t have compromised that. We had the tools to get it done that trade period and did.

You didn't need your first rounder to get either. It wouldn't have been compromised

 

[Hollow Knight]

How about we all just pay respect during this rough period for the Beams family?

I have on our board where were aware of it earlier. It’s tragic.