Diet, Supplements and Enhancers

Jugada

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Dec 5, 2012
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You can get pre supps without caffeine and stims in them too if you just want amino acids to stop your muscles from getting fatigued during a workout. That might be more your go

I only really use pre to fight off fatigue so after a couple of hours in there im still in the right head space. That and for the pump which is purely just for aesthetics
 

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Jugada

Norm Smith Medallist
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If you must supplement pre workout, stick to tried and tested creatine and glutamine.

If users are honest with themselves, your pre workout concoctions with the Death Metal names are more about battling mental fatigue/laziness. I was in the store yesterday, and the stuff I wanted (Rich Piana's 5150) was banned because "It had 400 mg of caffeine in each scoop. A can of Red Bull has 90."

The other stuff they put in helps give you a pump, and some have b vitamins and nootropics to combat the caffeine crash.

It's all fun and games until someone has a heart attack.
Red Bull isn't really made for its caffeine content though, its the taurine that gives it its effect. A cup of coffee has as much caffeine as a Red Bull
 

saj_21

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Yeah I can do without that.

For me, that crosses the line from health to pushing your body to an extreme to get huge and ripped. Totally understand why others want to do this, but it's not my bag.
Pre work out doesn’t get you huge and ripped.....steroids along with consistent training and diet do.

Any over counter pre work out is just Wizz fizz mixed some aminos acids and caffeine. You would have to be a moron to overdose on it.
 

nicky

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Does someone here have a recommendation on BCAA to take and when to take them? After weights, before weights, both? after yoga etc?

recommendations please? :)
 

EasternTiger

Norm Smith Medallist
Oct 15, 2007
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I use Revive from nutrition warehouse. I use a couple of scoops in my water bottle during my workout. The thinking is it aids recovery. Some people believe essential amino acids are more important.

Best known stack is the one from Milos Sarcev.

Pre workout
3-10g Creatine
3-10g Glutamine
15-20g Essential Amino Acids
15g BCAA
30-50 Vitargo
1tsp electrolyte drink powder

During Workout
3-5g Creatine
3-10g Glutamine
15-20g Essential Amino Acids
15g BCAA
50 Vitargo
1tsp electrolyte drink powder

Post Workout
3-5g Creatine
3-10g Glutamine
40-50g Whey
50-75 Vitargo
1tsp electrolyte drink powder
 

nicky

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I take glutamine seperately and the current BCAA i am taking has electrolytes in it. I don't know about creatine or vitargo and am thinking i can skip the whey powder.

Looking at getting some very high quality colostrum (i know they are different, just saying)
 

raskolnikov

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showdownhero

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on a journey through time and space
I use Revive from nutrition warehouse. I use a couple of scoops in my water bottle during my workout. The thinking is it aids recovery. Some people believe essential amino acids are more important.

Best known stack is the one from Milos Sarcev.

Pre workout
3-10g Creatine
3-10g Glutamine
15-20g Essential Amino Acids
15g BCAA
30-50 Vitargo
1tsp electrolyte drink powder

During Workout
3-5g Creatine
3-10g Glutamine
15-20g Essential Amino Acids
15g BCAA
50 Vitargo
1tsp electrolyte drink powder

Post Workout
3-5g Creatine
3-10g Glutamine
40-50g Whey
50-75 Vitargo
1tsp electrolyte drink powder
Any more than 5g creatine daily is excreted

And I'm pretty sure BCAA and EAA haven't shown any performance/recovery benefits if you're getting adequate protein overall.
 

Mofra

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Does someone here have a recommendation on BCAA to take and when to take them? After weights, before weights, both? after yoga etc?

recommendations please? :)
I was using it during workouts, now I just use a protein in water (future whey because of the flavour), haven't found any difference. Bare in mind I work out mostly fasted in the mornings though so everyone will need to take their own workout times into account.

Overall the 48 hour nutrition cycle is a lot more important than supps timing.
 

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EasternTiger

Norm Smith Medallist
Oct 15, 2007
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Dabbling in the pre workout world as one does, I came across a tremendous thing called Rhodiola. They use it for mental focus and to smooth out a caffeine crash.

I did a bit of looking into it, and found some people stack it with ashwagandha.

Magnificent stress reliever, adrenal support, and general anxiety relief. I take the rhodiola in the morn and the ash at night. It took the edge off really strong emotional responses I used to have in the evening thinking about something one of my fwit employees did during the day.

I would recommend trying the ashwagandha on its own as it is reasonably priced. Got it at chemist warehouse.

Can honestly say I'm not as homicidal as I once was.
 

FireKraquora

Norm Smith Medallist
Jul 5, 2011
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Dabbling in the pre workout world as one does, I came across a tremendous thing called Rhodiola. They use it for mental focus and to smooth out a caffeine crash.

I did a bit of looking into it, and found some people stack it with ashwagandha.

Magnificent stress reliever, adrenal support, and general anxiety relief. I take the rhodiola in the morn and the ash at night. It took the edge off really strong emotional responses I used to have in the evening thinking about something one of my fwit employees did during the day.

I would recommend trying the ashwagandha on its own as it is reasonably priced. Got it at chemist warehouse.

Can honestly say I'm not as homicidal as I once was.
Ashwagandha sounds promising. I started taking it for the anxiolytic properties. I noticed my libido was way up and beard was coming in thicker. Didn't click to me for a while that the Ash could be responsible. Googled it and, sure enough, these are known effects it can have. But this study made me seriously take attention:

"Compared to the placebo subjects, the group treated with ashwagandha had significantly greater increases in muscle strength on the bench-press exercise (Placebo: 26.4 kg, 95 % CI, 19.5, 33.3 vs. Ashwagandha: 46.0 kg, 95 % CI 36.6, 55.5; p = 0.001) and the leg-extension exercise (Placebo: 9.8 kg, 95 % CI, 7.2,12.3 vs. Ashwagandha: 14.5 kg, 95 % CI, 10.8,18.2; p = 0.04), and significantly greater muscle size increase at the arms (Placebo: 5.3 cm2, 95 % CI, 3.3,7.2 vs. Ashwagandha: 8.6 cm2, 95 % CI, 6.9,10.8; p = 0.01) and chest (Placebo: 1.4 cm, 95 % CI, 0.8, 2.0 vs. Ashwagandha: 3.3 cm, 95 % CI, 2.6, 4.1; p < 0.001). Compared to the placebo subjects, the subjects receiving ashwagandha also had significantly greater reduction of exercise-induced muscle damage as indicated by the stabilization of serum creatine kinase (Placebo: 1307.5 U/L, 95 % CI, 1202.8, 1412.1, vs. Ashwagandha: 1462.6 U/L, 95 % CI, 1366.2, 1559.1; p = 0.03), significantly greater increase in testosterone level (Placebo: 18.0 ng/dL, 95 % CI, -15.8, 51.8 vs. Ashwagandha: 96.2 ng/dL, 95 % CI, 54.7, 137.5; p = 0.004), and a significantly greater decrease in body fat percentage (Placebo: 1.5 %, 95 % CI, 0.4 %, 2.6 % vs. Ashwagandha: 3.5 %, 95 % CI, 2.0 %, 4.9 %; p = 0.03)."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4658772/


Just beware it can cause thyroid problems in people predisposed to them, and possibly withdrawals when discontinued. Unsure if appropriate for women or not.
 

EasternTiger

Norm Smith Medallist
Oct 15, 2007
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Ashwagandha sounds promising. I started taking it for the anxiolytic properties. I noticed my libido was way up and beard was coming in thicker. Didn't click to me for a while that the Ash could be responsible. Googled it and, sure enough, these are known effects it can have. But this study made me seriously take attention:

"Compared to the placebo subjects, the group treated with ashwagandha had significantly greater increases in muscle strength on the bench-press exercise (Placebo: 26.4 kg, 95 % CI, 19.5, 33.3 vs. Ashwagandha: 46.0 kg, 95 % CI 36.6, 55.5; p = 0.001) and the leg-extension exercise (Placebo: 9.8 kg, 95 % CI, 7.2,12.3 vs. Ashwagandha: 14.5 kg, 95 % CI, 10.8,18.2; p = 0.04), and significantly greater muscle size increase at the arms (Placebo: 5.3 cm2, 95 % CI, 3.3,7.2 vs. Ashwagandha: 8.6 cm2, 95 % CI, 6.9,10.8; p = 0.01) and chest (Placebo: 1.4 cm, 95 % CI, 0.8, 2.0 vs. Ashwagandha: 3.3 cm, 95 % CI, 2.6, 4.1; p < 0.001). Compared to the placebo subjects, the subjects receiving ashwagandha also had significantly greater reduction of exercise-induced muscle damage as indicated by the stabilization of serum creatine kinase (Placebo: 1307.5 U/L, 95 % CI, 1202.8, 1412.1, vs. Ashwagandha: 1462.6 U/L, 95 % CI, 1366.2, 1559.1; p = 0.03), significantly greater increase in testosterone level (Placebo: 18.0 ng/dL, 95 % CI, -15.8, 51.8 vs. Ashwagandha: 96.2 ng/dL, 95 % CI, 54.7, 137.5; p = 0.004), and a significantly greater decrease in body fat percentage (Placebo: 1.5 %, 95 % CI, 0.4 %, 2.6 % vs. Ashwagandha: 3.5 %, 95 % CI, 2.0 %, 4.9 %; p = 0.03)."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4658772/


Just beware it can cause thyroid problems in people predisposed to them, and possibly withdrawals when discontinued. Unsure if appropriate for women or not.
Funny you mention the libido. Since I've been on the ashwagandha, my morning boner has returned. I thought it was because I quit alcohol and porn.

No I'm very happy with it.
 

FireKraquora

Norm Smith Medallist
Jul 5, 2011
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Funny you mention the libido. Since I've been on the ashwagandha, my morning boner has returned. I thought it was because I quit alcohol and porn.

No I'm very happy with it.
Lmao, I was going to mention that specifically, but decided not to. It's like being a teenager again.

The Test increase is supposedly only minor, so I'm not sure which pathway it acts on to be so effective for muscle gains and libido. Perhaps just by limiting cortisol.
 

EasternTiger

Norm Smith Medallist
Oct 15, 2007
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anyone here have any experience with creatine ethyl ester?

just bought a bit and it tastes like pure salt. absolutely foul!
A teaspoon of sugar helps the creatine go down, in the most delightful wayyyy.

I'm a creatine non-responder, but when I tried it I just used the normal run of the mill creatine.

Is it pricey the stuff you bought?
 

Aeglos

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Sep 27, 2016
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Ashwagandha sounds promising. I started taking it for the anxiolytic properties. I noticed my libido was way up and beard was coming in thicker. Didn't click to me for a while that the Ash could be responsible. Googled it and, sure enough, these are known effects it can have. But this study made me seriously take attention:

"Compared to the placebo subjects, the group treated with ashwagandha had significantly greater increases in muscle strength on the bench-press exercise (Placebo: 26.4 kg, 95 % CI, 19.5, 33.3 vs. Ashwagandha: 46.0 kg, 95 % CI 36.6, 55.5; p = 0.001) and the leg-extension exercise (Placebo: 9.8 kg, 95 % CI, 7.2,12.3 vs. Ashwagandha: 14.5 kg, 95 % CI, 10.8,18.2; p = 0.04), and significantly greater muscle size increase at the arms (Placebo: 5.3 cm2, 95 % CI, 3.3,7.2 vs. Ashwagandha: 8.6 cm2, 95 % CI, 6.9,10.8; p = 0.01) and chest (Placebo: 1.4 cm, 95 % CI, 0.8, 2.0 vs. Ashwagandha: 3.3 cm, 95 % CI, 2.6, 4.1; p < 0.001). Compared to the placebo subjects, the subjects receiving ashwagandha also had significantly greater reduction of exercise-induced muscle damage as indicated by the stabilization of serum creatine kinase (Placebo: 1307.5 U/L, 95 % CI, 1202.8, 1412.1, vs. Ashwagandha: 1462.6 U/L, 95 % CI, 1366.2, 1559.1; p = 0.03), significantly greater increase in testosterone level (Placebo: 18.0 ng/dL, 95 % CI, -15.8, 51.8 vs. Ashwagandha: 96.2 ng/dL, 95 % CI, 54.7, 137.5; p = 0.004), and a significantly greater decrease in body fat percentage (Placebo: 1.5 %, 95 % CI, 0.4 %, 2.6 % vs. Ashwagandha: 3.5 %, 95 % CI, 2.0 %, 4.9 %; p = 0.03)."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4658772/


Just beware it can cause thyroid problems in people predisposed to them, and possibly withdrawals when discontinued. Unsure if appropriate for women or not.
IMO the authors overstate the effect of the Ashwagandha in the abstract based on the results they obtained, and there’s a couple of other things that need to be considerd
- these were (relative) newbies, so the results may not apply the same to seasoned gym goers
- participants don’t appear to have been matched on training age
- an increase in upper body muscle size but not thigh size makes no sense, which leads me to believe there were other confounding variables
- it outlines the resistance training protocol but not the weights participants used on the exercises (results could have been confounded by a couple of participants in either group who made above or below average progress)
- the outcomes in which the biggest improvements were seen also had the greatest standard deviation in the experimental group which suggests the possibility of there being both strong and weak responders to Ashwagandha
 

keyboard_warrior

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A teaspoon of sugar helps the creatine go down, in the most delightful wayyyy.

I'm a creatine non-responder, but when I tried it I just used the normal run of the mill creatine.

Is it pricey the stuff you bought?
it was $17 for 250g. monohydrate is a little less from the same site. so pretty fair.

I think you will only absorb around 30% monohydrate but 98% or so of the EE. thought i would give it a go. but it is waaaaaay worse tasting than monohydrate
 

Mofra

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Easiest low calorie options for protein? Gotta find another 60g or so of protein a day.
Two eggs?
If you're really strict just the whites, but from memory egg is the most bio-available source of protein you find outside of over-priced supps.
 

FireKraquora

Norm Smith Medallist
Jul 5, 2011
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IMO the authors overstate the effect of the Ashwagandha in the abstract based on the results they obtained, and there’s a couple of other things that need to be considerd
- these were (relative) newbies, so the results may not apply the same to seasoned gym goers
- participants don’t appear to have been matched on training age
- an increase in upper body muscle size but not thigh size makes no sense, which leads me to believe there were other confounding variables
- it outlines the resistance training protocol but not the weights participants used on the exercises (results could have been confounded by a couple of participants in either group who made above or below average progress)
- the outcomes in which the biggest improvements were seen also had the greatest standard deviation in the experimental group which suggests the possibility of there being both strong and weak responders to Ashwagandha
Thanks for the analysis. All of these supplements that sound too good to be true tend to be just that. Still sounds worthy of further research.
 

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