Diet, Supplements and Enhancers

[RU_]

I think I'll finally buy some protein powder from Bulk Nutrients now that I'm exercising more regularly but I can't decide if I want WPI or WPC. My partner will use it also, she just wants to gain weight but I still want to lose weight, bit of an awkward situation. She would just do shakes while I generally try to make some kind of no bake slice/bar/biscuit contraption to try fool myself into thinking I've had dessert. Seems a bit of a stretch to get a kilo of raw WPI and 1kg of flavoured WPC but I'm not sure what will work best for both of us.

You guys that just use it in shakes, do you use water or milk and what's your favourite flavour?

Milk makes it taste so much better but is more calorie heavy and choc honeycomb is the best!

 

[Milpool]

Or do I pay extra, get the Thermowhey for me and the sample WPC pack for the missus so once I'm through the weight loss we can just go one bag? I shouldn't have delved so deep into this rabbit hole.

 

[saj_21]

I think I'll finally buy some protein powder from Bulk Nutrients now that I'm exercising more regularly but I can't decide if I want WPI or WPC. My partner will use it also, she just wants to gain weight but I still want to lose weight, bit of an awkward situation. She would just do shakes while I generally try to make some kind of no bake slice/bar/biscuit contraption to try fool myself into thinking I've had dessert. Seems a bit of a stretch to get a kilo of raw WPI and 1kg of flavoured WPC but I'm not sure what will work best for both of us.

You guys that just use it in shakes, do you use water or milk and what's your favourite flavour?

Protein powder isn’t fat burning, losing or gaining weight comes down to how many calories you are consuming. A scoop of protein will only make up a small % of your overall calorie intake. My recommendation if either of you have sensitive stomachs get WPI.

 

[EasternTiger]

Or do I pay extra, get the Thermowhey for me and the sample WPC pack for the missus so once I'm through the weight loss we can just go one bag? I shouldn't have delved so deep into this rabbit hole.

Wait until Musashi High Protein goes on special for 1/2 price at the supermarket.

It is the least offensive protein in terms of taste, dissolves properly, and the lid goes back on the pack without fuss.

Good thing about waiting for stuff to go on special is the urge to get the product passes after a day or two. The other day I simply had to have Essential Amino Acids and highly branched cyclic dextrin for my intra workout, because I heard the combination gave 'steroid like' results!

After spending $90 to fill up the Kingswood, the urge to spend another $90 on supplements quickly passed, and I made do with my poor mans cluster dextrin of Gatorade I made myself from that store bought $10 'MAKES 8 LITRES' arse powder that doesn't dissolve.

On a happier note, I was over the moon to discover they still sold Sustagen GOLD Dutch Chocolate powder. I put a few spoons in with my evening milk, and sup the protein and fat goodness like a gentleman.

Back on topic. If you want to play a trick on your work mates get the cheap whey concentrate. The farts are tremendous.

 

[showdownhero]

Wait until Musashi High Protein goes on special for 1/2 price at the supermarket.

It is the least offensive protein in terms of taste, dissolves properly, and the lid goes back on the pack without fuss.

Good thing about waiting for stuff to go on special is the urge to get the product passes after a day or two. The other day I simply had to have Essential Amino Acids and highly branched cyclic dextrin for my intra workout, because I heard the combination gave 'steroid like' results!

After spending $90 to fill up the Kingswood, the urge to spend another $90 on supplements quickly passed, and I made do with my poor mans cluster dextrin of Gatorade I made myself from that store bought $10 'MAKES 8 LITRES' arse powder that doesn't dissolve.

On a happier note, I was over the moon to discover they still sold Sustagen GOLD Dutch Chocolate powder. I put a few spoons in with my evening milk, and sup the protein and fat goodness like a gentleman.

Back on topic. If you want to play a trick on your work mates get the cheap whey concentrate. The farts are tremendous.

Musashi is s**t,

Bulk Nutrients WPC ftw

 

[Jugada]

I think I'll finally buy some protein powder from Bulk Nutrients now that I'm exercising more regularly but I can't decide if I want WPI or WPC. My partner will use it also, she just wants to gain weight but I still want to lose weight, bit of an awkward situation. She would just do shakes while I generally try to make some kind of no bake slice/bar/biscuit contraption to try fool myself into thinking I've had dessert. Seems a bit of a stretch to get a kilo of raw WPI and 1kg of flavoured WPC but I'm not sure what will work best for both of us.

You guys that just use it in shakes, do you use water or milk and what's your favourite flavour?

Really there is going to be no real noticeable difference between the two. WPI is just more refined and so slightly lower in calories and slightly higher in protein. Unless you can't have lactose though it's really not worth the extra cost, especially for someone new to all of this. Definitely no problems with you both sharing a bag no matter what you choose.

Avoid raw though, that stuff is poison. May as well get something that tastes good. Choc honeycomb definitely the winner so far. Salted caramel and chocolate both good too.

99% of the time just put it in shakes. Sometimes I'll make protein balls with it if I can be bothered. Generally I'll go a third milk to two thirds water just because I can't tell any difference between that and all milk. Perfectly fine just going all water in the shaker post gym though if I take a scoop there though.

 

[EasternTiger]

Just picked up 4kg of protein for $75 at Chemist Warehouse.

But wait there's MORE!

Also scored a FREE 2 litre ferrari red drink bottle.

Now I can legit flog it up at the gym pretending I'm hardcore because I have 2 litres of Gatorade.

The protein is so good I put on 30g of lean muscle on the way home from the store.

It's the best deal in town!

 

[showdownhero]

Interesting study on anti-oxidant supplementation (Vitamin C and Vitamin E)

Vitamin C and E supplements may hinder athletes' training

Hundreds of athletes are in preparation for the 2014 Winter Olympics. But new research suggests they should avoid vitamin C and E supplements, as high doses may hamper training.

www.medicalnewstoday.com

Vitamin C and E supplementation alters protein signalling after a strength training session, but not muscle growth during 10 weeks of training - PubMed

This study investigated the effects of vitamin C and E supplementation on acute responses and adaptations to strength training. Thirty-two recreationally strength-trained men and women were randomly allocated to receive a vitamin C and E supplement (1000 mg day(-1) and 235 mg day(-1)...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

We concluded that vitamin C and E supplementation interfered with the acute cellular response to heavy-load resistance exercise and demonstrated tentative long-term negative effects on adaptation to strength training.

tldr antioxidants kill your gains

 

[VijoMorganstein]

Protein powder isn’t fat burning, losing or gaining weight comes down to how many calories you are consuming. A scoop of protein will only make up a small % of your overall calorie intake. My recommendation if either of you have sensitive stomachs get WPI.

I'm definitely not an expert in the field and haven't even read much on the subject but I believe the more lean muscle mass you have, the higher your basal metabolic rate will be, which in turn burns more calories which = weight loss compared to the same amount of calories consumed but your basal metabolic rate being lower?
I've got no idea which option is better for putting on lean muscle mass but a higher protein diet with the same overall calories in could be beneficial to weight loss

 

[saj_21]

I'm definitely not an expert in the field and haven't even read much on the subject but I believe the more lean muscle mass you have, the higher your basal metabolic rate will be, which in turn burns more calories which = weight loss compared to the same amount of calories consumed but your basal metabolic rate being lower?
I've got no idea which option is better for putting on lean muscle mass but a higher protein diet with the same overall calories in could be beneficial to weight loss

Yes you are right muscle burns more calories than body fat. But unless you are taking illegal supplements or obese you won’t be able to burn fat and build muscle at the same time. So you need to prioritise, weight loss or muscle gain. But you are correct when in calorie deficit you will need to eat sufficient protein which is muscle sparing.

 

[FireKrakouer]

But unless you are taking illegal supplements or obese you won’t be able to burn fat and build muscle at the same time.

This is the commonly shared narrative, but not entirely true IMO.

I have gained muscle mass while simultaneously losing body fat whilst overweight, but not "obese". There's also "newb gains"... a lot of people can gain muscle mass in their first 6 months of training, even if they're in a calorie deficit during this time from what I've seen. It's all about shocking your body and convincing it of where it's priorities lie.

Then there's the whole discussion of differing genetics between individuals... I think saying "It's impossible to grow muscle and lose fat at the same time" can be demotivating, and put people off exercise.

 

[showdownhero]

Body recomp is certainly possible under certain conditions

 

[Aeglos]

I found it funny the other day watching TV
Had Jo Silvani advertising whatever company it was an their osteoarthritis pain relief supplement which specifically stated in the fine print were only going to be effective if your diet was inadequate

 

[saj_21]

This is the commonly shared narrative, but not entirely true IMO.

I have gained muscle mass while simultaneously losing body fat whilst overweight, but not "obese". There's also "newb gains"... a lot of people can gain muscle mass in their first 6 months of training, even if they're in a calorie deficit during this time from what I've seen. It's all about shocking your body and convincing it of where it's priorities lie.

Then there's the whole discussion of differing genetics between individuals... I think saying "It's impossible to grow muscle and lose fat at the same time" can be demotivating, and put people off exercise.

It’s highly unlikely individuals lose body fat and gain muscle at the same time. When you lose bodyfat your muscles become more visible and look bigger. I’m not saying it can’t be done but it is highly unlikely. And if telling the truth instead of selling some pipe dream of everything is rainbows and sunshine because it might demotivate them then those people need a reality check

 

[Jugada]

Not something I've ever cared to look into the science of but I know when I first started I was losing weight and putting on muscle at the same time. While it may not be optimal it seems very possible

 

[saj_21]

Not something I've ever cared to look into the science of but I know when I first started I was losing weight and putting on muscle at the same time. While it may not be optimal it seems very possible

Not uncommon amongst newbies especially if you are overweight.

If you think as a trained individual, with decent body fat % and on a decent calorie deficit you can do both, you may as well believe in the tooth fairy.

 

[Jugada]

Was by no means overweight when I started. If it can happen for newbies then I don't see how it's not possible to take from existing fat stores once you are past the newb stage

 

[saj_21]

Was by no means overweight when I started. If it can happen for newbies then I don't see how it's not possible to take from existing fat stores once you are past the newb stage

So you think you can turn fat into muscle then?....

 

[Jugada]

So you think you can turn fat into muscle then?....

When did I say that? If you're theorizing that it can happen for newbies what's to stop it from happening later too

 

[saj_21]

When did I say that? If you're theorizing that it can happen for newbies what's to stop it from happening later too

When you said

“Take from existing fat stores”

You need to be calorie surplus to build muscle, otherwise you are suggesting you could be in calorie deficit and build muscle all the time.

 

[Aeglos]

Was by no means overweight when I started. If it can happen for newbies then I don't see how it's not possible to take from existing fat stores once you are past the newb stage

That's a bit like arguing "if a newbie can add 5kg a week to their squat for a year why can't someone who has been training for 10 years do the same" as if it were the case we'd all look like leaner and bigger versions of Ronnie Coleman and squat 3000kg.

Once your body fat drops past a certain point (which will be different for everyone) it'll stop using fat as an energy source (as we need a minimum amount to stay alive) and eventually catabolise muscle instead.
So yes, in certain circumstances you can do both, however I'd discount it for anyone who's in decent shape with a reasonable weight training background.

 

[Jugada]

That's a bit like arguing "if a newbie can add 5kg a week to their squat for a year why can't someone who has been training for 10 years do the same" as if it were the case we'd all look like leaner and bigger versions of Ronnie Coleman and squat 3000kg.

Once your body fat drops past a certain point (which will be different for everyone) it'll stop using fat as an energy source (as we need a minimum amount to stay alive) and eventually catabolise muscle instead.
So yes, in certain circumstances you can do both, however I'd discount it for anyone who's in decent shape with a reasonable weight training background.

It's nothing like that. Im not arguing that it's going to remain just as effective, I'm just saying I don't see how it couldn't be possible for those who aren't new and obese just at a slower rate. I'm not talking about people who have been involved for years anyway, the original comment was aimed at deterring people in the early stages

 

[Jugada]

When you said

“Take from existing fat stores”

You need to be calorie surplus to build muscle, otherwise you are suggesting you could be in calorie deficit and build muscle all the time.

Yeah and that doesn't equal thinking fat turns into muscle at all...

Those 2 statement don't need to both be true either. You yourself said newb obese people dont need to necessarily be in a calorie surplus to gain muscle

 

[saj_21]

Yeah and that doesn't equal thinking fat turns into muscle at all...

Those 2 statement don't need to both be true either. You yourself said newb obese people dont need to necessarily be in a calorie surplus to gain muscle

I may have jumped the gun on the fat into muscle thing but is a common misconception out there.

Anecdotally Newbies can gain muscle and fat at the same time, overweight or obese more so due to surplus body fat stores meaning whilst eating a calorie deficit there body does have excess energy stores to utilise.

Here is why I believe after a little while you can’t just go back into fat burning and muscle building mode at the same time;

When you are in a calorie deficit you are fighting against your bodies natural instincts of survival. Your body doesnt know it’s 2019 and there is food within arms reach.

Back in the good old days when we lived in caves and hunted for food, whenever you were in calorie deficit it mean no food was around and you are “starving to death” Now at this stage do you think the body is going to be thinking hang on a second here I’m starving to death whilst you eat a little food I will also build some muscle. Hell no, it will be putting those nurtrients where they need to go.

It’s the same reason if you have ever had a prolonged diet I.e prepping for a BB show, after a while you lose your sex drive. Because when you are “starving to death” it may not be the best time to have kids and more mouths to feed with less food.

I don’t have any issue with telling newbies hey you might be able to lose weight and gain muscle at the same time, but it isn’t a guarantee. If that fact then deters people from starting at all then I would suggest encouraging them also.....if it was easy everyone would do it.

 

[Deliverance]

Anyone got a protein shake with creatine added? I used to use one overseas, but haven't found one in Oz. Just for convenience sakes really.