Difference between Islam and Extremism

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Marley10

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Nowadays, many people only know what the media portrays Islam as, so I was requested to do a thread outlining the details of the Religion and how it differs from extremism- which is not Islam at all.

First, I have to start with the basics of Islam, and that is the belief. The belief is a key difference between the mainstream Muslims (also known as Sunni Muslims), which are the majority of the Muslim nation, and the extremists who have what is known as the Wahhaabi creed, which is named so after Muhammad ibn Abdul Wahhab who emerged from Najd in Saudi Arabia approximately 270 years ago. He is the founder of the Wahhaabi movement. So I will refer to this movement throughout the thread as the extremists follow this ideology. The amount of people following this sect would amount to probably about 3 million people in the world out of the 1.6 billion people who identify themselves as Muslims. The problem with this sect is that they go under many different names (so you hear al-Qaeda, Daesh, ISIS etc). Also, some say they are Sunni Muslims, but they follow the Wahhaabi creed, thus making them a part of this sect as opposed to a mainstream Muslim.


Belief of the Sunni Muslims

The Muslims believe that God is One, not in the context of numbers, but in the context that He does not have a partner with him in Godhood. The essential belief in God for the Muslims is to clear God from resembling any of the creations. We believe that God is not like the creations in any way and that He is the Creator of everything. The Muslims also believe that God does not need any of the creations as He existed before creating the creations. We believe that the existence of God is without a beginning and without an end since He created time and His existence does not have any relation to the passage of time (so time – a creation – does not lapse on Him). So anything with a beginning means that time lapses on it and therefore, is a creation. Everything other than God, be it the universe, the stars, the sun, etc., is created. Since the existence of God is without a beginning, it follows that His attributes are also without a beginning.

So, the Muslims believe that the existence of God is without a place, direction, form, shape, colour and any other created matter. We don’t believe that God is a gaint body dwelling above us. Rather, we say that God is as He eternally was, that is, without being contained in a place or direction. We believe that He is attributed with the attributes of Absolute Perfection, that is, clear from all the attributes of the creation. One rule is: Whatever you imagine in your mind, God is different from it. This is because what you imagine is a creation as your mind itself is a creation.


Belief of the Wahhabis

The Wahhabi creed is very different to the above mentioned. Their belief in God is that God is a body with a face, a shin, two arms, a foot and sits on the Throne (or some say hovers above it) in the direction of above. They believe that God created everything, and then went into what He created and adopted some of the attributes that He Created. They believe that God descends down every last third of the night to the first Heaven.

Their belief in God is that He is similar to the creations in many aspects, such a being a body with limbs, eyes, face, hands, arms, shin, feet.

According to the Islamic rules, the creed of the Wahhabis that I briefly outlined means that they are not Muslims, as it contradicts one of the essentials of belief stated in numerous explicit Qur’anic verses, which is God’s non-resemblance to His creations in any way.


Origin of Extremism

So a question you might ask is, how do they have a belief so different to the Muslims?

The answer lies with their interpretation of the Qur’anic verses (and sayings of the Prophet, peace be upon him).

Firstly, there are two types of Qur’anic verses in the Qur’an. One is called the Muhkam (explicit) verse and the other is called the Mutashaabih (ambiguous) verse. This is also the same with the sayings of the Prophet, known in Arabic as Hadith. The explicit verses are those that, according to the Arabic language, can only have one meaning or an explicit meaning. The ambiguous verses are those that, according to the Arabic language, can have more than one meaning, so assigning a meaning to these verses requires proper knowledge of the original Arabic language spoken over 1,000 years ago. Mind you, Arabic is a very rich language to the extent that one word can have 22 meanings, or a word can mean one thing, and also mean the direct opposite of that first meaning depending on the context. At the time the Qur’aan was revealed, the people spoke the Arabic language with great eloquence and a natural disposition. This was considered the golden era of the Arabic language. Some of the Scholars living at that time explained the meaning of some of these verses so that people coming after them would not misinterpret them. As the years went by, century after century, people started losing this knowledge of the Arabic language. In seeing that, the Scholars started documenting the actual meanings of these verses for us to understand.

In the 18th century, over 1,000 years after the Qur’an was revealed, this man named Muhammad ibn Abdul Wahhab started interpreting the verses of the Qur’an in his own way without referring back to the Scholars. He interpreted the second type of Qur’anic verses by taking their literal meaning (like the first type of verses). So if a word has 15 meanings, he would take the literal and physical meaning, as he understood it with his level of Arabic. By doing so, he deviated from the method used by all the reliable Scholars and Companions of the Prophet, peace be upon him. So in short, he and his followers started killing innocent Muslims one by one, and sometimes they massacred groups. After this movement spread within the area of an-Najd (the east of current day Saudi Arabia, including the capital Riyadh), they went to takeover Makkah and Madinah, the two most important cities in the Religion. Their methodology was for the Muslims to either join them, or be killed, and they stuck to their word. Many, many Muslims were killed within those regions until they took over those lands. Ibn Abdul Wahhab had ties with what is currently known as the Saud family, who currently pass the ‘kingdom’ within the brothers as you have seen recently. Bolded because it is important to know that this is not the Islamic way of ruling. Anyways after the wealth they have received from the oil, they had enough money to distribute many of their misinterpreted and deviant teachings throughout the world. The copy of the so-called English/German/French translation of the Qur’an is using their methodology and is full of mistakes. What is written in Arabic is not the same as the English, so it is often not reliable.

It is also through this method of interpretation (and the practices of killing innocent people of the early Wahhabis) that the current day extremists came about. What they are doing really has absolutely no basis within the Religion. Like the early followers of Ibn Wahhab, they also kill Muslims. In fact, they have killed more Muslims than any other group and it is not even close. Just this month, they’ve killed a reported 51 people in Yemen in one bombing.


Solution

So you might ask, what is the best way of getting rid of them?

The best way of tackling extremism is through education. Educating the general Muslim population about the true belief of the Muslims, the true history of Islam and the true methodology of the Prophet, peace be upon him, is the way to prevent, if not, reduce extremism. Through this methodology, they are starting to be exposed all around the Muslim world, both in teachings and as individuals. The biggest warning sign is their belief and their method of interpreting the Qur’an. Those with knowledge can identify them even by the way they speak or what they say. That being said, many of the extremists also have political motives for their extremism.

This is a very brief summary outlining some key aspects that differs the Muslims from the extremists. Like I’ve mentioned before, many of them are not Muslims to begin with because of their belief in God, yet these are the people that use our name to commit these atrocities. Unlike what some people believe, Islam is NOT the cause of them committing these actions, nor is the Qur’an the reason. Rather, it is their ignorance in the Rules of the Religion and the Arabic Grammar that is to blame.
 
Origin of Muslim extremism?

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Origin of Muslim extremism?

us-flag-backlit.jpg

For once LG is right.

The US have helped move the world forward with a great many freedoms, while the Islamic world has stayed rooted in place with attitudes from the middle ages, and as that distinction becomes broader, they struggle, violently to maintain their conservative, outdated attitudes, all the while cheered on by the so called 'progressives' in the west.
 
For once LG is right.
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2012...and-saudi-backing-of-al-qaeda-led-to-911.html

To this day, those involved in the decision to give the Afghan rebels access to a fortune in covert funding and top-level combat weaponry continue to defend that move in the context of the Cold War. Sen. Orrin Hatch, a senior Republican on the Senate Intelligence Committee making those decisions, told my colleague Robert Windrem that he would make the same call again today even knowing what bin Laden would do subsequently. “It was worth it,” he said.
“Those were very important, pivotal matters that played an important role in the downfall of the Soviet Union,” he said.

The Washington Post reported in 2002:
The United States spent millions of dollars to supply Afghan schoolchildren with textbooks filled with violent images and militant Islamic teachings ….The primers, which were filled with talk of jihad and featured drawings of guns, bullets, soldiers and mines, have served since then as the Afghan school system’s core curriculum. Even the Taliban used the American-produced books
 
Hardly the 'origin'.

Compellingly

And neither do you regret having supported the Islamic fundamentalism, having given arms and advice to future terrorists?
Zbigniew Brzezinski, President Jimmy Carter's National Security Adviser
"What is most important to the history of the world? The Taliban or the collapse of the Soviet empire? Some stirred-up Moslems or the liberation of Central Europe and the end of the cold war?"

http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/BRZ110A.html
 
Don't believe anything any "moderate" Muslim tells you, especially Sunni's. They are, almost to a man/woman, bigoted, racist liars. Most of them would have us eradicated if you gave them half a chance.

I am baptised roman catholic, but not religious, haven't set foot in church for 20? years. I recently ended a relationship with a sunni muslim girl i had been going out with for 9 months. Intelligent girl, finishing up a law degree this year. The relationship was kept secret from her family of course. I gave up and sacrificed a lot to be with her because i was head over heels in love. Gave up sex (no sex before marriage), had to accept the whole thing being a secret except from some of my family. Had to walk metres away from her in public like a stray dog if there were any muslims around (Adelaide is a small place remember). I helped her overcome a couple of massive issues in her life that she couldn't go to her family about because he brothers and father would kill her (her words...an exaggeration...maybe). I sorted the issues out for her...at risk to myself. Can't say much more about that. Issues financially, legally, and with ex-friends or boyfriends or whatever she wanted to call them.

Caught her out shopping herself around to 4 different muslim guys online.."just friends" of course. Caught her out asking her friends to "find her a man" after i refused to convert. To me, converting would be the ultimate slap in the face to the religion. I am not religious. It would be a cynical attempt to speed up the possibility of sex and any Muslim with half a brain would see it as such. Still soldiered on...any man who has been in love will know the place i was in.

When i caught her out til 3 AM at a party (albeit with mostly only muslim girls), for the 5th time, after 9 months of her telling me she can't even come for coffee after dark or hang out or whatever (remember, she's 27 and nearly finished a double degree in law and business) i called her bluff and, unfortunately due to emotion,somewhat clumsily and without any strategy or tact, let her family know in a roundabout way. They sort of kind of maybe knew a few months earlier, but she saved the day by telling them she was friends with my mum (also a lawyer) and i was just an acquaintance.

Anyway...after much heartache and shenanigans once her family knew the real story of the last 9 months, including nearly having to go right on with it with her brothers (i'm an ex-clubbie and had done a few years inside, it would have gotten ugly if it jumped off), of course she just dropped me like a stone, her family carried on about honour killings and refused to ever let us have contact again and *en blah blah blah (they're not even staunch muslims,only when it suits them...just a bunch of hypocrites), i got the blame for everything and had seduced her and whatever and she tried to even tell her family that i was some sort of psychotic stalker that she hardly knows. So i sent them some photos to show that was pretty ******* far from the truth. In fact it was the opposite, she was sprung many a time creeping around checking up on me. Which was fine, i didn't mind, i was faithful and loyal.

Her fine, upstanding hijab wearing close friends that did know about us, or sort of knew, still openly would try to set her up with various potential husbands. Without shame.

I could go on and on, there is much i had to leave out. I learned a lot about Muslims in the last year or so, and i already had quite a few muslim mates but they are at least real enough to admit, like most of us "Christians", that yeah, we're religious...but you know, come on now ;)

Basically, like evangelical Christians, westernised muslims are full of s**t. They hate anyone who isn't like them, and it doesn't matter if you can and did move heaven and earth to make one of them happy.

My EXPERIENCE is deep down they have no interest in assimilating or merging or compromising in any way. My experience is, mostly, they are ignorant bigots. Willingly ignorant bigots, because also in my experience in general they are as intelligent and well educated and as civilised as any other religious or ethnic group.



Extremism is a whole other issue, there is no doubt there are western foreign policies and hypocrisy that help drive extremism in the middle east but remember, those "jihadis" etc that blame the USA and the west for everything, they kill, rape and torture more muslims than non-muslims by orders of magnitude.
 
Nowadays, many people only know what the media portrays Islam as, so I was requested to do a thread outlining the details of the Religion and how it differs from extremism- which is not Islam at all.

First, I have to start with the basics of Islam, and that is the belief. The belief is a key difference between the mainstream Muslims (also known as Sunni Muslims), which are the majority of the Muslim nation, and the extremists who have what is known as the Wahhaabi creed, which is named so after Muhammad ibn Abdul Wahhab who emerged from Najd in Saudi Arabia approximately 270 years ago. He is the founder of the Wahhaabi movement. So I will refer to this movement throughout the thread as the extremists follow this ideology. The amount of people following this sect would amount to probably about 3 million people in the world out of the 1.6 billion people who identify themselves as Muslims. The problem with this sect is that they go under many different names (so you hear al-Qaeda, Daesh, ISIS etc). Also, some say they are Sunni Muslims, but they follow the Wahhaabi creed, thus making them a part of this sect as opposed to a mainstream Muslim.


Belief of the Sunni Muslims

The Muslims believe that God is One, not in the context of numbers, but in the context that He does not have a partner with him in Godhood. The essential belief in God for the Muslims is to clear God from resembling any of the creations. We believe that God is not like the creations in any way and that He is the Creator of everything. The Muslims also believe that God does not need any of the creations as He existed before creating the creations. We believe that the existence of God is without a beginning and without an end since He created time and His existence does not have any relation to the passage of time (so time – a creation – does not lapse on Him). So anything with a beginning means that time lapses on it and therefore, is a creation. Everything other than God, be it the universe, the stars, the sun, etc., is created. Since the existence of God is without a beginning, it follows that His attributes are also without a beginning.

So, the Muslims believe that the existence of God is without a place, direction, form, shape, colour and any other created matter. We don’t believe that God is a gaint body dwelling above us. Rather, we say that God is as He eternally was, that is, without being contained in a place or direction. We believe that He is attributed with the attributes of Absolute Perfection, that is, clear from all the attributes of the creation. One rule is: Whatever you imagine in your mind, God is different from it. This is because what you imagine is a creation as your mind itself is a creation.


Belief of the Wahhabis

The Wahhabi creed is very different to the above mentioned. Their belief in God is that God is a body with a face, a shin, two arms, a foot and sits on the Throne (or some say hovers above it) in the direction of above. They believe that God created everything, and then went into what He created and adopted some of the attributes that He Created. They believe that God descends down every last third of the night to the first Heaven.

Their belief in God is that He is similar to the creations in many aspects, such a being a body with limbs, eyes, face, hands, arms, shin, feet.

According to the Islamic rules, the creed of the Wahhabis that I briefly outlined means that they are not Muslims, as it contradicts one of the essentials of belief stated in numerous explicit Qur’anic verses, which is God’s non-resemblance to His creations in any way.


Origin of Extremism

So a question you might ask is, how do they have a belief so different to the Muslims?

The answer lies with their interpretation of the Qur’anic verses (and sayings of the Prophet, peace be upon him).

Firstly, there are two types of Qur’anic verses in the Qur’an. One is called the Muhkam (explicit) verse and the other is called the Mutashaabih (ambiguous) verse. This is also the same with the sayings of the Prophet, known in Arabic as Hadith. The explicit verses are those that, according to the Arabic language, can only have one meaning or an explicit meaning. The ambiguous verses are those that, according to the Arabic language, can have more than one meaning, so assigning a meaning to these verses requires proper knowledge of the original Arabic language spoken over 1,000 years ago. Mind you, Arabic is a very rich language to the extent that one word can have 22 meanings, or a word can mean one thing, and also mean the direct opposite of that first meaning depending on the context. At the time the Qur’aan was revealed, the people spoke the Arabic language with great eloquence and a natural disposition. This was considered the golden era of the Arabic language. Some of the Scholars living at that time explained the meaning of some of these verses so that people coming after them would not misinterpret them. As the years went by, century after century, people started losing this knowledge of the Arabic language. In seeing that, the Scholars started documenting the actual meanings of these verses for us to understand.

In the 18th century, over 1,000 years after the Qur’an was revealed, this man named Muhammad ibn Abdul Wahhab started interpreting the verses of the Qur’an in his own way without referring back to the Scholars. He interpreted the second type of Qur’anic verses by taking their literal meaning (like the first type of verses). So if a word has 15 meanings, he would take the literal and physical meaning, as he understood it with his level of Arabic. By doing so, he deviated from the method used by all the reliable Scholars and Companions of the Prophet, peace be upon him. So in short, he and his followers started killing innocent Muslims one by one, and sometimes they massacred groups. After this movement spread within the area of an-Najd (the east of current day Saudi Arabia, including the capital Riyadh), they went to takeover Makkah and Madinah, the two most important cities in the Religion. Their methodology was for the Muslims to either join them, or be killed, and they stuck to their word. Many, many Muslims were killed within those regions until they took over those lands. Ibn Abdul Wahhab had ties with what is currently known as the Saud family, who currently pass the ‘kingdom’ within the brothers as you have seen recently. Bolded because it is important to know that this is not the Islamic way of ruling. Anyways after the wealth they have received from the oil, they had enough money to distribute many of their misinterpreted and deviant teachings throughout the world. The copy of the so-called English/German/French translation of the Qur’an is using their methodology and is full of mistakes. What is written in Arabic is not the same as the English, so it is often not reliable.

It is also through this method of interpretation (and the practices of killing innocent people of the early Wahhabis) that the current day extremists came about. What they are doing really has absolutely no basis within the Religion. Like the early followers of Ibn Wahhab, they also kill Muslims. In fact, they have killed more Muslims than any other group and it is not even close. Just this month, they’ve killed a reported 51 people in Yemen in one bombing.


Solution

So you might ask, what is the best way of getting rid of them?

The best way of tackling extremism is through education. Educating the general Muslim population about the true belief of the Muslims, the true history of Islam and the true methodology of the Prophet, peace be upon him, is the way to prevent, if not, reduce extremism. Through this methodology, they are starting to be exposed all around the Muslim world, both in teachings and as individuals. The biggest warning sign is their belief and their method of interpreting the Qur’an. Those with knowledge can identify them even by the way they speak or what they say. That being said, many of the extremists also have political motives for their extremism.

This is a very brief summary outlining some key aspects that differs the Muslims from the extremists. Like I’ve mentioned before, many of them are not Muslims to begin with because of their belief in God, yet these are the people that use our name to commit these atrocities. Unlike what some people believe, Islam is NOT the cause of them committing these actions, nor is the Qur’an the reason. Rather, it is their ignorance in the Rules of the Religion and the Arabic Grammar that is to blame.

It is a nice history lesson, but for someone like me, who has walked in that world as an outsider, there are no moderate or tolerant muslims. Well, tolerant maybe, in that most of the Muslims that live in western society do so peacefully, albeit with a s**t eating grin upon their soul which is easily exposed if you've been through what i went through. They long for their world and way of doing things to replace the democratic and secular ways, and you know what? That is actually fair enough and understandable. Why wouldn't they? But don't come on here and pretend it is otherwise, please.

You should explain to the forum about shia marriage contracts, to get around the no sex law.
 
Nowadays, many people only know what the media portrays Islam as, so I was requested to do a thread outlining the details of the Religion and how it differs from extremism- which is not Islam at all.

First, I have to start with the basics of Islam, and that is the belief. The belief is a key difference between the mainstream Muslims (also known as Sunni Muslims), which are the majority of the Muslim nation, and the extremists who have what is known as the Wahhaabi creed, which is named so after Muhammad ibn Abdul Wahhab who emerged from Najd in Saudi Arabia approximately 270 years ago.
Surely, a more basic question, one which no 'believer' seems to think significant, is why people such as you attach any importance whatsoever to mere beliefs? Is it fair to assume from what you have written here that you consider yourself a 'moderate' Muslim (one of the good guys)? I see nothing moderate in the fantasies of either arm of your cult. Both sets of beliefs are equally preposterous.
 
Nowadays, many people only know what the media portrays Islam as, so I was requested to do a thread outlining the details of the Religion and how it differs from extremism- which is not Islam at all.

First, I have to start with the basics of Islam, and that is the belief. The belief is a key difference between the mainstream Muslims (also known as Sunni Muslims), which are the majority of the Muslim nation, and the extremists who have what is known as the Wahhaabi creed, which is named so after Muhammad ibn Abdul Wahhab who emerged from Najd in Saudi Arabia approximately 270 years ago. He is the founder of the Wahhaabi movement. So I will refer to this movement throughout the thread as the extremists follow this ideology. The amount of people following this sect would amount to probably about 3 million people in the world out of the 1.6 billion people who identify themselves as Muslims. The problem with this sect is that they go under many different names (so you hear al-Qaeda, Daesh, ISIS etc). Also, some say they are Sunni Muslims, but they follow the Wahhaabi creed, thus making them a part of this sect as opposed to a mainstream Muslim.


Belief of the Sunni Muslims

The Muslims believe that God is One, not in the context of numbers, but in the context that He does not have a partner with him in Godhood. The essential belief in God for the Muslims is to clear God from resembling any of the creations. We believe that God is not like the creations in any way and that He is the Creator of everything. The Muslims also believe that God does not need any of the creations as He existed before creating the creations. We believe that the existence of God is without a beginning and without an end since He created time and His existence does not have any relation to the passage of time (so time – a creation – does not lapse on Him). So anything with a beginning means that time lapses on it and therefore, is a creation. Everything other than God, be it the universe, the stars, the sun, etc., is created. Since the existence of God is without a beginning, it follows that His attributes are also without a beginning.

So, the Muslims believe that the existence of God is without a place, direction, form, shape, colour and any other created matter. We don’t believe that God is a gaint body dwelling above us. Rather, we say that God is as He eternally was, that is, without being contained in a place or direction. We believe that He is attributed with the attributes of Absolute Perfection, that is, clear from all the attributes of the creation. One rule is: Whatever you imagine in your mind, God is different from it. This is because what you imagine is a creation as your mind itself is a creation.


Belief of the Wahhabis

The Wahhabi creed is very different to the above mentioned. Their belief in God is that God is a body with a face, a shin, two arms, a foot and sits on the Throne (or some say hovers above it) in the direction of above. They believe that God created everything, and then went into what He created and adopted some of the attributes that He Created. They believe that God descends down every last third of the night to the first Heaven.

Their belief in God is that He is similar to the creations in many aspects, such a being a body with limbs, eyes, face, hands, arms, shin, feet.

According to the Islamic rules, the creed of the Wahhabis that I briefly outlined means that they are not Muslims, as it contradicts one of the essentials of belief stated in numerous explicit Qur’anic verses, which is God’s non-resemblance to His creations in any way.


Origin of Extremism

So a question you might ask is, how do they have a belief so different to the Muslims?

The answer lies with their interpretation of the Qur’anic verses (and sayings of the Prophet, peace be upon him).

Firstly, there are two types of Qur’anic verses in the Qur’an. One is called the Muhkam (explicit) verse and the other is called the Mutashaabih (ambiguous) verse. This is also the same with the sayings of the Prophet, known in Arabic as Hadith. The explicit verses are those that, according to the Arabic language, can only have one meaning or an explicit meaning. The ambiguous verses are those that, according to the Arabic language, can have more than one meaning, so assigning a meaning to these verses requires proper knowledge of the original Arabic language spoken over 1,000 years ago. Mind you, Arabic is a very rich language to the extent that one word can have 22 meanings, or a word can mean one thing, and also mean the direct opposite of that first meaning depending on the context. At the time the Qur’aan was revealed, the people spoke the Arabic language with great eloquence and a natural disposition. This was considered the golden era of the Arabic language. Some of the Scholars living at that time explained the meaning of some of these verses so that people coming after them would not misinterpret them. As the years went by, century after century, people started losing this knowledge of the Arabic language. In seeing that, the Scholars started documenting the actual meanings of these verses for us to understand.

In the 18th century, over 1,000 years after the Qur’an was revealed, this man named Muhammad ibn Abdul Wahhab started interpreting the verses of the Qur’an in his own way without referring back to the Scholars. He interpreted the second type of Qur’anic verses by taking their literal meaning (like the first type of verses). So if a word has 15 meanings, he would take the literal and physical meaning, as he understood it with his level of Arabic. By doing so, he deviated from the method used by all the reliable Scholars and Companions of the Prophet, peace be upon him. So in short, he and his followers started killing innocent Muslims one by one, and sometimes they massacred groups. After this movement spread within the area of an-Najd (the east of current day Saudi Arabia, including the capital Riyadh), they went to takeover Makkah and Madinah, the two most important cities in the Religion. Their methodology was for the Muslims to either join them, or be killed, and they stuck to their word. Many, many Muslims were killed within those regions until they took over those lands. Ibn Abdul Wahhab had ties with what is currently known as the Saud family, who currently pass the ‘kingdom’ within the brothers as you have seen recently. Bolded because it is important to know that this is not the Islamic way of ruling. Anyways after the wealth they have received from the oil, they had enough money to distribute many of their misinterpreted and deviant teachings throughout the world. The copy of the so-called English/German/French translation of the Qur’an is using their methodology and is full of mistakes. What is written in Arabic is not the same as the English, so it is often not reliable.

It is also through this method of interpretation (and the practices of killing innocent people of the early Wahhabis) that the current day extremists came about. What they are doing really has absolutely no basis within the Religion. Like the early followers of Ibn Wahhab, they also kill Muslims. In fact, they have killed more Muslims than any other group and it is not even close. Just this month, they’ve killed a reported 51 people in Yemen in one bombing.


Solution

So you might ask, what is the best way of getting rid of them?

The best way of tackling extremism is through education. Educating the general Muslim population about the true belief of the Muslims, the true history of Islam and the true methodology of the Prophet, peace be upon him, is the way to prevent, if not, reduce extremism. Through this methodology, they are starting to be exposed all around the Muslim world, both in teachings and as individuals. The biggest warning sign is their belief and their method of interpreting the Qur’an. Those with knowledge can identify them even by the way they speak or what they say. That being said, many of the extremists also have political motives for their extremism.

This is a very brief summary outlining some key aspects that differs the Muslims from the extremists. Like I’ve mentioned before, many of them are not Muslims to begin with because of their belief in God, yet these are the people that use our name to commit these atrocities. Unlike what some people believe, Islam is NOT the cause of them committing these actions, nor is the Qur’an the reason. Rather, it is their ignorance in the Rules of the Religion and the Arabic Grammar that is to blame.

And who do you propose is going to do all this educating? You forgot about the Shia Muslims BTW. If you have time can you tell me what positives Islam brings to Australia?
 
islam.jpg


We need more 'Moderate' Muslims to step up.
Doesn't happen though, most moderate Muslims are more than happy to see Islam take over east and western society by force.
It's no wonder the left love it.
 
What is a 'moderate' Muslim...?


Do they believe in 'moderate' Islam? As far as I know there is only 1 Islam, and it is not moderate at all.

So a 'moderate' Muslim is supposed to believe in Islam and Islam says to lie in order to spread Islam, it is also worth mentioning that according to Islam any Muslim or non Muslim that say bad things about Islam is going to hell. To me it sounds like a Muslim must lie and deceive to protect Islam like any other Muslim, so a 'moderate' Muslim either doesn't believe in Islam and therefore not a Muslim or they are just lying following their religion.
 

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The US have helped move the world forward with a great many freedoms, while the Islamic world has stayed rooted in place with attitudes from the middle ages, and as that distinction becomes broader, they struggle, violently to maintain their conservative, outdated attitudes, all the while cheered on by the so called 'progressives' in the west.
The US and the west has done as much as possible to install backwards dictators and keep the Islamic world mired in violence.

Your simplistic and adolescent worldview doesnt take into account the 'Islamic revolution' occurred in country that was heading towards liberalism in the 50s, until a US backed dictator was installed.

And let's not forget the states in the region were essentially drawn up by the West to ensure conflict would be permament and allow the oil supply to remain constant and cheap.

So this thread will turn into another steam bath for the usual racist bigots, but don't ignore the geo-political context.
 
This thread has been created due to numerous requests to discuss Islam by many regulars in SRP. I've been speaking to Marley10 over a number of weeks and encouraged him to create this thread so that we can attempt to have a serious discussion on this topic.

This is the first and only warning to all posters that any attempt at Muslim bashing, off topic posts, attempts to derail this thread or any post that the moderators deem inappropriate to this discussion will incur a one month thread ban, no questions asked. We will be moderating this thread vigorously.

People have asked for this thread, and here it is. Dozens of these types of threads have had to be closed in the past. Hopefully people can have a civil discussion and prove the moderators wrong.

Jab Inferno Malifice Doss Messenger Caesar
 
It's scary to see how much the left and 'extreme' Islam have in common.

Broad left ideology stresses peace, inclusion, tolerance of homosexuality, sexual freedom and secularism.

Extreme Islam preaches violence, exclusion, intolerance of any sexual difference, oppression of women and religious totalitarianism.

Your comparison is horrendously incorrect.

Your assertion that they have anything in common is a parroted point from conservative tabloids.
 
What is a true Muslim's opinion on what should happen to apostates?
Isn't that the real question? Not whether one sect thinks God has shins and the other doesn't. Who the * cares about that?

(Except for idiots of either creed that thinks it matters)
 
Don't believe anything any "moderate" Muslim tells you, especially Sunni's. They are, almost to a man/woman, bigoted, racist liars. Most of them would have us eradicated if you gave them half a chance.

I am baptised roman catholic, but not religious, haven't set foot in church for 20? years. I recently ended a relationship with a sunni muslim girl i had been going out with for 9 months. Intelligent girl, finishing up a law degree this year. The relationship was kept secret from her family of course. I gave up and sacrificed a lot to be with her because i was head over heels in love. Gave up sex (no sex before marriage), had to accept the whole thing being a secret except from some of my family. Had to walk metres away from her in public like a stray dog if there were any muslims around (Adelaide is a small place remember). I helped her overcome a couple of massive issues in her life that she couldn't go to her family about because he brothers and father would kill her (her words...an exaggeration...maybe). I sorted the issues out for her...at risk to myself. Can't say much more about that. Issues financially, legally, and with ex-friends or boyfriends or whatever she wanted to call them.

Caught her out shopping herself around to 4 different muslim guys online.."just friends" of course. Caught her out asking her friends to "find her a man" after i refused to convert. To me, converting would be the ultimate slap in the face to the religion. I am not religious. It would be a cynical attempt to speed up the possibility of sex and any Muslim with half a brain would see it as such. Still soldiered on...any man who has been in love will know the place i was in.

When i caught her out til 3 AM at a party (albeit with mostly only muslim girls), for the 5th time, after 9 months of her telling me she can't even come for coffee after dark or hang out or whatever (remember, she's 27 and nearly finished a double degree in law and business) i called her bluff and, unfortunately due to emotion,somewhat clumsily and without any strategy or tact, let her family know in a roundabout way. They sort of kind of maybe knew a few months earlier, but she saved the day by telling them she was friends with my mum (also a lawyer) and i was just an acquaintance.

Anyway...after much heartache and shenanigans once her family knew the real story of the last 9 months, including nearly having to go right on with it with her brothers (i'm an ex-clubbie and had done a few years inside, it would have gotten ugly if it jumped off), of course she just dropped me like a stone, her family carried on about honour killings and refused to ever let us have contact again and ****en blah blah blah (they're not even staunch muslims,only when it suits them...just a bunch of hypocrites), i got the blame for everything and had seduced her and whatever and she tried to even tell her family that i was some sort of psychotic stalker that she hardly knows. So i sent them some photos to show that was pretty ******* far from the truth. In fact it was the opposite, she was sprung many a time creeping around checking up on me. Which was fine, i didn't mind, i was faithful and loyal.

Her fine, upstanding hijab wearing close friends that did know about us, or sort of knew, still openly would try to set her up with various potential husbands. Without shame.

I could go on and on, there is much i had to leave out. I learned a lot about Muslims in the last year or so, and i already had quite a few muslim mates but they are at least real enough to admit, like most of us "Christians", that yeah, we're religious...but you know, come on now ;)

Basically, like evangelical Christians, westernised muslims are full of s**t. They hate anyone who isn't like them, and it doesn't matter if you can and did move heaven and earth to make one of them happy.

My EXPERIENCE is deep down they have no interest in assimilating or merging or compromising in any way. My experience is, mostly, they are ignorant bigots. Willingly ignorant bigots, because also in my experience in general they are as intelligent and well educated and as civilised as any other religious or ethnic group.



Extremism is a whole other issue, there is no doubt there are western foreign policies and hypocrisy that help drive extremism in the middle east but remember, those "jihadis" etc that blame the USA and the west for everything, they kill, rape and torture more muslims than non-muslims by orders of magnitude.
Well there are many mistakes on her side. She should have told you what she believed in and the rules of the Religion to begin with (If she even knows about the rules). All of that could have been avoided if she properly practiced the Religion. Actual practicing Muslims (pious Muslims) would not be caught out in a party or in her situation. Fair to say that she definitely was not a pious (practicing) Muslim.

Again, you cannot blame the Religion for what a couple of individuals have done.
My post is not aimed at discussing the current day Muslims, because many many Muslims have not learned the Religion. I could go on and on about the many mistakes that the current day Muslims engage in (almost daily). Ignorance about the Religion is widespread, not just among the non-Muslims, but also among the Muslims. You don't see many pious Muslims that have learned the Religion properly nowadays anymore. Very rare to come across one, particularly in the Western Countries.
 
What is a 'moderate' Muslim...?


Do they believe in 'moderate' Islam? As far as I know there is only 1 Islam, and it is not moderate at all.

So a 'moderate' Muslim is supposed to believe in Islam and Islam says to lie in order to spread Islam, it is also worth mentioning that according to Islam any Muslim or non Muslim that say bad things about Islam is going to hell. To me it sounds like a Muslim must lie and deceive to protect Islam like any other Muslim, so a 'moderate' Muslim either doesn't believe in Islam and therefore not a Muslim or they are just lying following their religion.
Among the sins of the tongue is to lie, which is to utter a statement that is not true while knowing that it is not true. If I want to teach people about Islam, why do I need to lie? It is against the rules of the Religion to speak without knowledge, let alone flat out lying and making things up as you go. The practicing Muslim doesn't lie. Again, there are not many pious Muslims nowadays, especially in the West, so if you have come across a Muslim that lies, then this is not representative of what Islam orders.

The term "moderate" Muslim wasn't given by us. There is Islam, then there is extremism - which is not Islam. They are separate. The type of Muslim can differ though. There is the righteous Muslim (who has done all the obligations, avoided all the prohibitions and consistently performs at least one recommended matter), then there is the pious Muslim (who has done all the obligations and avoided the prohibitions) and the sinful Muslim (who has done more bad deeds then good deeds). Many of these extremists are not even Muslims by what I have outlined, so we don't call them Muslim extremists.
 
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By clarifying the belief of the Muslims, Marley10 is giving people the tool of knowing the difference between the evil doers that you see committing terrorist acts and the actual Muslims.

The fact that a lot of the terrorists and the Muslims have different beliefs in God already goes to show that they are not truly a part of the Muslims.

Also, Muslims do not go around and blow ourselves up. They believe that suicide is among the major sins of Islam. How can those people who commit suicide by bombing themselves then claim that they are doing something good if it is prohibited to do so in Islam?

By being aware of the practices of Islam and the belief of the Muslims, you are equipping yourself with knowledge that you can use to distinguish between the terrorists and the Muslims. You will not find Muslims doing what the terrorists do, hence why such a minority out of over a billion people who identify themselves as Muslims do this and the rest do not. Some people wrongly suggest that Muslims believe that they must go and kill everyone around them that does not enter Islam. The truth is, Muslims are allowed to co-exist with the non-Muslims in a place. This is why you see so many Muslims living in societies where there are non-Muslims.
 
Isn't that the real question? Not whether one sect thinks God has shins and the other doesn't. Who the **** cares about that?

(Except for idiots of either creed that thinks it matters)
See you overlook that part, then when one of them blows a shop, you come to the Muslims, blame our Religion for their actions and ask us to apologise. I am showing you the origin of their extremist views as there is a clear distinction. Their belief is a key difference because having that belief indicates that they are following the methodology of the man named Muhammad Ibn Abdul Wahhab, who started this extremist movement. These extremists misinterpret the Qur'anic verses and Hadiths in any way that they like without following the proper methodology.

Their brainwashing starts with the belief and before you know it, the student is in Syria with bombs attached to his body. You may not see the belief as a significant factor, but it is actually the basis of this problem.
 
My post is not aimed at discussing the current day Muslims, because many many Muslims have not learned the Religion. I could go on and on about the many mistakes that the current day Muslims engage in (almost daily). Ignorance about the Religion is widespread, not just among the non-Muslims, but also among the Muslims. You don't see many pious Muslims that have learned the Religion properly nowadays anymore. Very rare to come across one, particularly in the Western Countries.

So, out of the 1.6 billion muslims worldwide, how many actually understand the religion? And what do those who do understand it think should happen to apostates?
 
And who do you propose is going to do all this educating? You forgot about the Shia Muslims BTW. If you have time can you tell me what positives Islam brings to Australia?

The Shia Muslims are not following the proper methodology of the Prophet and the Qur'aan. However, at least they don't teach under the name of Sunni Muslims and identify themselves, unlike those sneaky Wahhabis that go under many different names.

Of course the one who does this educating has to be from the Muslims. Unfortunately, many Muslims are in need of being taught themselves, let alone teaching others. My community for example, spend a great deal of our time teaching others the true teachings of Islam to expose the extremists and prevent them from becoming one, thus protecting the people of our respective countries (Australia in my case). There are many Muslims who take the responsibility of teaching upon themselves all around the world. In America, there is less of the extremists as most Muslims know about them and they are exposed. It may take a bit of time, but it can be done. There are previous sects that are completely eradicated now, even though they were widespread at the time. And it was through teaching and exposing them. Of course the media however wouldn't be interested in following our story because it wouldn't sell the papers.

Another strategy that I think is very effective is returning the two most important cities in our Religion, Makkah and Madinah, to the Sunni Muslims. Since many Muslims would make the trip to these two cities (either for pilgrimage or otherwise), teaching them the true teachings there would spread it very quickly. Unfortunately, the Saud family have a lot of power so there is no way they would let go of those cities. Plus, there are some incentives for the US to keep them there to begin with (as they seem to be on good terms with each other) so there is no way the US would let go of them.

That being said, the majority are following the true teachings of Islam anyways as they are taught in their respective countries. Even when talking about the extremists, it is a minority, less than 0.2% of those who identify themselves as Muslims.


There are many positives of having practicing Muslims in Australia. The practicing Muslim would have all of the following qualities:

They would treat others in a kind way

They would be generous

They wouldn't drink alcohol, take drugs or engage in things like gambling, meaning that the money that they earn would be spent in a wise way (generally through donation, supporting one's family etc)

They would do what is required from them by their employer in order to get the money, instead of cutting corners

They would not engage in anti-social behaviour (like starting fights, raping, cursing at others etc)

They would be truthful in every situation that they're in, whether it is through earning their money, or dealing with others. So if they work and they know of a colleague who is stealing from the business, they must report this person after giving them a warning as opposed to staying silent. This is because the employers money (or assets) are unrightfully being taken away from them. Also, they would not lie, whether it is about themselves or others.

They would be a person who is uplifting and someone that protects those around them and those not in their presence (like refraining from backbiting).

They would be one who stands up against injustice. If they see a bully, they would stand with the bullied. If a child, woman or man alike is being mistreated, they will offer their support. If someone is in need, they would help them.

They wouldn't cheat or be dishonest. In fact, cheating in measuring (like measuring 100 grams of the product, the customer pays for that, then giving them 95 grams) is considered an enormous sin.

This is just a brief example of how they could benefit the Australian public. Don't forget that not all Muslims are migrants. Some are Australian and many are born here.

Of course, a Muslim like this would mean that they have probably learned the Religion and are implementing what they are taught.
 
So, out of the 1.6 billion muslims worldwide, how many actually understand the religion? And what do those who do understand it think should happen to apostates?
There are a lot of people that need to learn nowadays, but there are learned individuals that know and understand the Religion.

There are details to this and I've briefly mentioned it in the other Paris thread, but there is no caliph (or an Islamic state for that matter) in todays time, so it won't add to the current discussion. The Shari^ah Law is applied in an Islamic State. The last time that there was a Caliph (or an Islamic State) was approximately 100 years ago. The collaboration of some European nations dissolved the Caliphate and made it into national countries. If there is a punishment to be carried out, it is generally done by the Caliph or his deputy. And just for clarification, the current so-called ISIS is NOT an Islamic State. That is NOT how you establish an Islamic State.

So I'll leave this topic at this.
 
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