Current Disappearance of 3yo William Tyrrell * The foster mother has been recommended for charges of pervert the course of justice & interfere with a corpse

[Kurve]

Criminal charges the former foster parents currently face as at 15 April 2022 include:

• Apprehended Violence Orders on both (AVOs)
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster mother *Not Guilty
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster father *Not Guilty
• 2 x charges of assault against a child on former foster mother *Guilty
• 1 x charge of assault against a child on former foster father
• Stalking &/or Intimidation on both
• Dummy bidding real estate fraud *Guilty

TIMELINE

Where's William Tyrrell? - The Ch 10 podcast (under Coroner's subpoena)

Operation Arkstone

 

[31550]

If you go back and read from post #7,330, you will see that 31550 references this March 2015 statement and asks why she doesn't mention the drive.

"Note the FM makes no mention of this drive in her statement of 17 March 2015. So if Jubelin knew about it in 2016, did it come up subsequently, or was it deliberately omitted from the March 2015 statement? And did Rupp know about this drive? FGM made no mention of it. I really think the exact time and nature of this trip is critical to the case - not sure why there has been no public information request - maybe there were other witnesses besides the infamous "truck driver"?

I asked to see that statement and after it was cleared to be posted and reading through all 65 pages, I find that the statement of that date does not cover what happened after FF left the house. So 31550's comment about her not mentioning the drive is redundant.

Therefore, I now wonder if we can also see the previous statements where (presumably) she did mention it?

Yeah she mentions the drive in her video walkthrough with Det Partridge, only a few days after the disappearance:

William Tyrrell’s foster mum recalls frantic search for son in new footage

A never before seen video has been released by the coroner's court showing William Tyrrell's foster mother recalling her desperate search.

startsat60.com

This video was presented at the coronial inquest.
I have not seen the actual FM statement made at the same time, only this later March 2015 one.
So yes, the drive was known to police all along - not sure why Jubelin is saying he was aware of it in 2016. He should have been aware of it in Feb 2015 when he took the case over, or even earlier.

 

[Tues]

The 12 and 13 Oct 2022 hearing for FF's charges of giving false or misleading evidence to the NSW Crime Commission should be visible on the NSW Online Registry now. But it isn't, or not that I can see. I've tried searching for his name, the case name with his initials, and the case number that was used in March, but no results.

Does anybody know what's going on? Has the case gone back under a non-publication order? or been moved to another date? or the charges withdrawn? or what?

Both are listed for the 20th October.

 

[Lady O]

Yeah she mentions the drive in her video walkthrough with Det Partridge, only a few days after the disappearance:

William Tyrrell’s foster mum recalls frantic search for son in new footage

A never before seen video has been released by the coroner's court showing William Tyrrell's foster mother recalling her desperate search.

startsat60.com

This video was presented at the coronial inquest.
I have not seen the actual FM statement made at the same time, only this later March 2015 one.
So yes, the drive was known to police all along - not sure why Jubelin is saying he was aware of it in 2016. He should have been aware of it in Feb 2015 when he took the case over, or even earlier.

Wouldn't we all love to see the entire footage of that videoed walk through interview?! I'm sure it would throw up a lot of other questions and also answer some others.

 

[BFew]

Yeah she mentions the drive in her video walkthrough with Det Partridge, only a few days after the disappearance:

William Tyrrell’s foster mum recalls frantic search for son in new footage

A never before seen video has been released by the coroner's court showing William Tyrrell's foster mother recalling her desperate search.

startsat60.com

This video was presented at the coronial inquest.
I have not seen the actual FM statement made at the same time, only this later March 2015 one.
So yes, the drive was known to police all along - not sure why Jubelin is saying he was aware of it in 2016. He should have been aware of it in Feb 2015 when he took the case over, or even earlier.

Maybe there was a strategic investigation decision made by NSW Police, to initially suppress the FM claim that the FM had gone for that drive to look for William:

1. So that the focus was not on one or both foster parents.

Possibly because there was a belief amongst key investigators that the foster parents did not cause William's disappearance, and/or a whole of NSW Government prayer, that William's disappearance was not directly caused by foster carers that were acting on behalf of the NSW State Government who had assumed legal responsibility for both William and his older sister by removing them from the care of either of their birth parent(s), and temporarily putting them into/under the care of the State/Minister/FACs/the fosters.

This would assist enable more focus and more resources for investigating all the other potential suspects/POI, and all the known, suspected, and unknown child abusers and pedos around that region of NSW.

2. Because there might have not been any evidence at that stage, that the FM was telling the truth about having either gone on that drive, where she had gone on that drive, or when she gone for a drive that morning. Remembering that she claimed that she didn't have a mobile phone with her on that drive.

 

[Lady O]

Maybe there was a strategic investigation decision made by NSW Police, to initially suppress the FM claim that the FM had gone for that drive to look for William:

1. So that the focus was not on one or both foster parents.

Possibly because there was a belief amongst key investigators that the foster parents did not cause William's disappearance, and/or a whole of NSW Government prayer, that William's disappearance was not directly caused by foster carers that were acting on behalf of the NSW State Government who had assumed legal responsibility for both William and his older sister by removing them from the care of either of their birth parent(s), and temporarily putting them into/under the care of the State/Minister/FACs/the fosters.

This would assist enable more focus and more resources for investigating all the other potential suspects/POI, and all the known, suspected, and unknown child abusers and pedos around that region of NSW.

2. Because there might have not been any evidence at that stage, that the FM was telling the truth about having either gone on that drive, where she had gone on that drive, or when she gone for a drive that morning. Remembering that she claimed that she didn't have a mobile phone with her on that drive.

At the time the video walk through was filmed, 6 days after WT had disappeared, FM would have already told Police about the cars she saw parked across the road and the big man in the green car who locked eyes with her, which I think she "remembered" on the drive back from the airport 2 days after he disappeared and reported. So I'm thinking they were then focused on trying to find who abducted him and were not thinking that FM taking a drive to look for him was suspicious. I doubt it would have been a deliberate strategy by Police to protect FACS from criticism.

 

[NRL Fan]

What I find confusing is on the morning of the 12th where the FM begins with the details of the BMX bike riding and the dark green/grey vehicle that drives past, but there is no time provided as to when this occurred and then she goes back to the time they first woke up and sees two parked cars. The two parked cars were not noted during the bike riding, so we can only assume the bike riding was later. WT would also have been wearing shoes during the bike riding so he would have needed to remove his shoes later. This out of sequence statement regarding the BMX riding needs clarifying, along with when WT removed his shoes.

Also, paragraph 49 contains the FF first name, which was not redacted.

 

[31550]

Wouldn't we all love to see the entire footage of that videoed walk through interview?! I'm sure it would throw up a lot of other questions and also answer some others.

I would also love to see the full version of FM original statement, and the unedited 000 call. I think whatever was said closer to the actual event is more likely to be truthful. "Beware the witness whose memory improves over time!"

 

[insanity]

I think the reason it's gone so quiet here of late is that there's some very full-on and authentic stuff being passed around atm. Goodness knows how this info is leaking, but it's out there.

There's so much to comment and feast on, believe me. But so far l've opted not to download it, quote it, send links to it or comment here because, authentic as it may be, we don't know where it came from. If any possible trial ever happens, astute lawyers engaged by wealthy people can and will cry media bias.

I think the best option is to keep our noses clean here. Read all these leaks if you stumble across them. Then gradually introduce any questions for discussion Eg, "I read somewhere that William hated his surname".

Is this a safe option Kurve?

Where would one fine these discussions. May I ask?

 

[Poppy Penny]

Where would one fine these discussions. May I ask?

Yes DropBearess, I am aware of the private group you are talking about. I am confused by the apparent caution now re posts, if one can quote the source of documents. I find it no different to quoting a newspaper article, that may or may not be totally correct. If and when William’s matter ever hits a trial, it could be heard by judge alone, like Chris Dawson’s trial. I think the leaking ( deliberate or accidental) is here to stay and the media, books and forums will continue to publish it.

 

[stormbird]

Both are listed for the 20th October.

Thanks, Tues. The Hornsby date is said to be for the fraud charges, though, not the false or misleading evidence charges:

Daily Telegraph, 22 Aug 2022 (paywalled, sorry)

"Police will allege in court that the matters related to procuring a third party to place dummy bids at an auction for a Sydney property listed under the father's name.
They will allege it was an attempt to dishonestly obtain financial advantage by deception that occurred between December 10 and 12 in 2020.
...
They are due to appear at Hornsby Court on October 20."

 

[stormbird]

"The biological mother of missing boy William Tyrrell has been charged with two domestic violence offences after allegedly hitting a man she is in a relationship with at a bus stop."

- Tyrrell's mother charged with assaulting man at bus stop, The Australian, 02 Oct 2022

I can't see the article or the reporter's name. I'm guessing the charges are not related to William's disappearance.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

My apologies but i've drifted out of this one in recent months... is there a commonly agreed hypothesis among the sleuths?

 

[Kurve]

My apologies but i've drifted out of this one in recent months... is there a commonly agreed hypothesis among the sleuths?

Hi Bunk, nah not really imo. It looks like the police think the foster parents were involved but that's about it far as I can tell.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Hi Bunk, nah not really imo. It looks like the police think the foster parents were involved but that's about it far as I can tell.

Seems strange it's basically gone nowhere for six months.

 

[Awakening]

Seems strange it's basically gone nowhere for six months.

It's been nearly a year since police made it sound like they were very close to a breakthrough with the big dig.

Now it's looking more like they suspect the fosters but don't have enough to arrest.

So the big dig, these subsequent arrests appear to be about putting them under pressure.

Whether the police's suspicions are based on anything solid, I have no idea.

 

[Lady O]

It's been nearly a year since police made it sound like they were very close to a breakthrough with the big dig.

Now it's looking more like they suspect the fosters but don't have enough to arrest.

So the big dig, these subsequent arrests appear to be about putting them under pressure.

Whether the police's suspicions are based on anything solid, I have no idea.

Do you think they are awaiting the results of the current charges? If the FM & FF have a record of domestic violence against a child (who is not WT), lying under oath and fraud, then it may strengthen their case.

 

[FrankGrimes]

Do you think they are awaiting the results of the current charges? If the FM & FF have a record of domestic violence against a child (who is not WT), lying under oath and fraud, then it may strengthen their case.

Don’t think you can use previous charges in trials because it’s bias..
police don’t have evidence because they didn’t do it.. will go down in aus history as a mystery imo

 

[Awakening]

Do you think they are awaiting the results of the current charges? If the FM & FF have a record of domestic violence against a child (who is not WT), lying under oath and fraud, then it may strengthen their case.

I don't think so. I think if they had enough to charge them in relation to William they'd do it pronto.

It's possible they are trying to buy time to build a case.

Any test results from anything they found last year would have come back by now.

When I read about the charge for dummy bidding I thought the cops must be desperate. Like arresting them for jaywalking.

Sadly for young William, I don't think they are any closer to solving it.

I hope to be proven wrong though.

 

[Kurve]

Don’t think you can use previous charges in trials because it’s bias..
police don’t have evidence because they didn’t do it.. will go down in aus history as a mystery imo

Acts of violence against a child in the home I'm pretty sure, could be admitted as evidence if either of them were charged with being responsible for William's disappearance. In a judge only trial, it would more likely succeed.

In NSW, we saw the Chris Dawson trial accept witness evidence of seeing violence against Lynette before she went missing and the retelling of conversations with her friends that indicated there were problems in the marriage.

Just today in NSW, the daughter of a man charged with murdering his wife forty years ago told the court she saw her father choke her mother and shove food down her shirt the day before she disappeared. The daughter was only six years old at the time.

I can't see charges for William's disappearance to this stage but I couldn't forsee the assault charges and stalking against his sister either or the permanent removal of all the children in their care. Most people I'm sure would have accepted, on seeing William with a black eye, the story of how it happened but after the assault charges many would be wondering now if it was false and if William was a victim of ongoing abuse. Put that with the foster mother's complaints of his behaviour and thoughts of handing him back to the agency and it becomes more possible that he was.

Agree the fraud charge raised on dummy bidding seems a bit of a grab but at the same time, it goes to their honesty.

 

[Kurve]

On the issue of possible ongoing abuse against William and which I wouldn't have thought seriously about before, is that there might be an problem there that the foster mother doesn't cope as well with the care of two children with suggestions abuse or punishments against the elder foster daughter getting out of hand when another child came in to the house.

There's also the mental health defence which might suggest that had she been successful running that, she might have plead guilty to the assaults and stalking.

The mental health defence was refused and unsurprised as there was ample time for her to recognise a problem and seek help with the judge making comment that the abuse appeared to be ongoing and over time.

I can't imagine the fosters have been under 24/7 surveillance since William disappeared but we know their phones were tapped and the foster mother told a friend that she needed to 'break' the foster daughter. What happened or what information did the police get that triggered the surveillance this time?

There's more to the story imo.

 

[Kurve]

I've talked myself in to seeing charges at the end now. Not for murder though, charges along the lines of misconduct with a corpse and misleading the investigation.

 

[31550]

Seems strange it's basically gone nowhere for six months.

No elections. No new Commissioner appointments.

 

[Kurve]

I've talked myself in to seeing charges at the end now. Not for murder though, charges along the lines of misconduct with a corpse and misleading the investigation.

That might seem contradictory given I've pointed to what might be in a brief should a prosecution go ahead on charges of murder or manslaughter. They're just not going to stick absent a confession and with or without a body, too many problems and should the foster mother choose, there's a defence already laid out within the leaks of information in the surveillance records and the foster mother's statements.

 

[Lady O]

That might seem contradictory given I've pointed to what might be in a brief should a prosecution go ahead on charges of murder or manslaughter. They're just not going to stick absent a confession and with or without a body, too many problems and should the foster mother choose, there's a defence already laid out within the leaks of information in the surveillance records and the foster mother's statements.

I think, if the charges against them for abuse of the other child are proven, then the other child would then be deemed a reliable witness to what occurred with WT. That was the point I was trying to make.

 

[Kurve]

I think, if the charges against them for abuse of the other child are proven, then the other child would then be deemed a reliable witness to what occurred with WT. That was the point I was trying to make.

Agree, with convctions on the evidence of assault seeming likely.