Current Disappearance of 3yo William Tyrrell * The foster mother has been recommended for charges of pervert the course of justice & interfere with a corpse

[Kurve]

Criminal charges the former foster parents currently face as at 15 April 2022 include:

• Apprehended Violence Orders on both (AVOs)
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster mother *Not Guilty
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster father *Not Guilty
• 2 x charges of assault against a child on former foster mother *Guilty
• 1 x charge of assault against a child on former foster father
• Stalking &/or Intimidation on both
• Dummy bidding real estate fraud *Guilty

TIMELINE

Where's William Tyrrell? - The Ch 10 podcast (under Coroner's subpoena)

Operation Arkstone

 

[stormbird]

Interesting read.

"
The foster father, who works in sales, could be seen limbering up in court rooms in his pink business shirt and skinny jeans, twisting his square toe shoes and breathing deeply.

He told the court he had met the foster mother about 2006 and as a motorcyclist he had ridden his trail bike around the Kendall State Forest “extensively”.

He explained away his frantic behaviour after arriving home and tearing off to run like a madman up hill and down dale without finding where his wife had already searched for William.

“There is method in my madness,” he said, “I thought it was probably better for me to branch out … outside the house.”


I found the FF's actions and answers unusual. Breathing deeply and twisting his feet are signs of being nervous about the questions that he might be asked, making it appear he had something to hide. His immediate action of branching out without checking where SDR had already searched is not an expected logical response and the use of the words "There is method in my madness" is an admission that he considered his own actions as mad, and this 6 word sentence provides no logical reason for branching out. It's almost as though he was putting on a show to appear to be overcome by emotion by tearing off in a frantic panic and then realised later that's not a normal response and needed justification.

It's also interesting that he knew the area extensively from his trail bike riding, so if he was involved in hiding a body, he would know where to go. I know he has an alibi from his zoom call and receipt at the chemist, but there is a ~30 minute period between the zoom call ending and his Chemist receipt which is unaccounted time. Not sure if this has been looked at in any depth ?

As far as I know, that 30 minutes between the start of the phone call and the end of chemist visit hasn't been explained to the public.

FF's call to a recruiter started at 9:45 am, but when did it end? Who knows. From Searching for Spiderman, 2020, p.70:

"His meeting with a client in Queensland accounted for thirty-nine minutes. Nathan missed a call from a recruiter during the meeting. He retrieved her voicemail message and at 9.45, returned her call. Then he went to the pharmacy."

Then, from Canberra Times, 25 March 2019, while FF was in Lakewood: "He had a prescription filled at a chemist there at 10.19am."

Presumably 10:19 is the time he paid for the medication, probably just before leaving the chemist, so it doesn't tell us how long he was in the shop. I can imagine the chemist visit alone might have taken up the full 30 minutes if there were other customers before him at the counter, or tasks needing the attention of the pharmacist or staff; and it might have taken some time to make up the medication if it wasn't pre-packaged, or to establish his authority to pick it up if it was for someone else. MOO

 

[NRL Fan]

As far as I know, that 30 minutes between the start of the phone call and the end of chemist visit hasn't been explained to the public.

FF's call to a recruiter started at 9:45 am, but when did it end? Who knows. From Searching for Spiderman, 2020, p.70:

"His meeting with a client in Queensland accounted for thirty-nine minutes. Nathan missed a call from a recruiter during the meeting. He retrieved her voicemail message and at 9.45, returned her call. Then he went to the pharmacy."

Then, from Canberra Times, 25 March 2019, while FF was in Lakewood: "He had a prescription filled at a chemist there at 10.19am."

Presumably 10:19 is the time he paid for the medication, probably just before leaving the chemist, so it doesn't tell us how long he was in the shop. I can imagine the chemist visit alone might have taken up the full 30 minutes if there were other customers before him at the counter, or tasks needing the attention of the pharmacist or staff; and it might have taken some time to make up the medication if it wasn't pre-packaged, or to establish his authority to pick it up if it was for someone else. MOO

I've been to that Chemist quite a few times and had prescriptions filled out, all within 5 minutes max and I can't recall ever seeing a queue at the counter of more than one or two people. Friday morning at 10:00am is not exactly rush hour at Lakewood outside of school holidays . If FF was involved in the disposal of the body, even if he didn't return back to FGM's house, WT might have been killed earlier and placed in the trunk of the vehicle and disposed of in the bush near Lakewood during this gap in time. This would require the time of the pictures to be earlier and it would possible verify WT was looking up at his FF in the roar picture. The fact that the 30 minutes of time exists and hasn't been explained is problematic IMO. If FF was using the chemist visit as an alibi, he could have turned off his mobile and Navman for the trip to dispose of the body, returned back to the carpark and no one would be the wiser.

 

[31550]

I've been to that Chemist quite a few times and had prescriptions filled out, all within 5 minutes max and I can't recall ever seeing a queue at the counter of more than one or two people. Friday morning at 10:00am is not exactly rush hour at Lakewood outside of school holidays . If FF was involved in the disposal of the body, even if he didn't return back to FGM's house, WT might have been killed earlier and placed in the trunk of the vehicle and disposed of in the bush near Lakewood during this gap in time. This would require the time of the pictures to be earlier and it would possible verify WT was looking up at his FF in the roar picture. The fact that the 30 minutes of time exists and hasn't been explained is problematic IMO. If FF was using the chemist visit as an alibi, he could have turned off his mobile and Navman for the trip to dispose of the body, returned back to the carpark and no one would be the wiser.

How can William have been in FF car? Photo taken at 9:37. FF GotoMeeting was still in progress at Lakewood at this time. FF would have to return to the house to get William, and we have established he did not have time to do this.

 

[stormbird]

I've been to that Chemist quite a few times and had prescriptions filled out, all within 5 minutes max and I can't recall ever seeing a queue at the counter of more than one or two people. Friday morning at 10:00am is not exactly rush hour at Lakewood outside of school holidays . If FF was involved in the disposal of the body, even if he didn't return back to FGM's house, WT might have been killed earlier and placed in the trunk of the vehicle and disposed of in the bush near Lakewood during this gap in time. This would require the time of the pictures to be earlier and it would possible verify WT was looking up at his FF in the roar picture. The fact that the 30 minutes of time exists and hasn't been explained is problematic IMO. If FF was using the chemist visit as an alibi, he could have turned off his mobile and Navman for the trip to dispose of the body, returned back to the carpark and no one would be the wiser.

I don't know how phones and vehicles are tracked (and FF had a laptop with him too, see below*) but unless they were all turned off for an extended period I think a small gap in the records, all at the same time, would look questionable. And based on maps, it looks like the only ways in or out of the Lakewood shopping centre go quite close to the service station - NRL Fan, is that correct? Because if the service station CCTV cameras show enough background, it might have been possible for police to see images and times of all vehicles entering or leaving the carpark, in which case they should have known if FF had nipped out between the 9:45 call and the 10:19 chemist.

*From "The usual suspects", Nowhere Child podcast on Listen Notes, 30 Aug 2019
where an actor re-creates FF's statements in a police interview from 1 Sep 2016. (Transcript is by me and I'm only guessing that FF says "Morton" because I can't work out what else it might be. Was Lakewood given a pseudonym?)

(from about 37:52 minutes)
FF: "I went to the little shopping centre at Morton, stopped on the left-hand side of the road coming from Kendall - a little supermarket, a chemist, a Woolies - I sat in the carpark with my laptop and logged on. Headset. I called a contact in Queensland, it was around nine a.m. I filled a script. Drove home. Bolted into action."

 

[NRL Fan]

How can William have been in FF car? Photo taken at 9:37. FF GotoMeeting was still in progress at Lakewood at this time. FF would have to return to the house to get William, and we have established he did not have time to do this.

I already answered that Q in my comment. This scenario would require the images of WT to have been taken earlier - eg: 7:35.

 

[31550]

I don't know how phones and vehicles are tracked (and FF had a laptop with him too, see below*) but unless they were all turned off for an extended period I think a small gap in the records, all at the same time, would look questionable. And based on maps, it looks like the only ways in or out of the Lakewood shopping centre go quite close to the service station - NRL Fan, is that correct? Because if the service station CCTV cameras show enough background, it might have been possible for police to see images and times of all vehicles entering or leaving the carpark, in which case they should have known if FF had nipped out between the 9:45 call and the 10:19 chemist.

*From "The usual suspects", Nowhere Child podcast on Listen Notes, 30 Aug 2019
where an actor re-creates FF's statements in a police interview from 1 Sep 2016. (Transcript is by me and I'm only guessing that FF says "Morton" because I can't work out what else it might be. Was Lakewood given a pseudonym?)

(from about 37:52 minutes)
FF: "I went to the little shopping centre at Morton, stopped on the left-hand side of the road coming from Kendall - a little supermarket, a chemist, a Woolies - I sat in the carpark with my laptop and logged on. Headset. I called a contact in Queensland, it was around nine a.m. I filled a script. Drove home. Bolted into action."

I think "Morton" might mean Laurieton? Did he go to Laurieton or Lakewood?

 

[stormbird]

I think "Morton" might mean Laurieton? Did he go to Laurieton or Lakewood?

Do you mean that it sounds like "Laurieton"? If so, fair enough, maybe that's what he meant. But I think he definitely says there was a "Woolies" there (short for Woolworths supermarket), and according to Google Maps there isn't one of those in Laurieton.

 

[fazacs1]

Do you mean that it sounds like "Laurieton"? If so, fair enough, maybe that's what he meant. But I think he definitely says there was a "Woolies" there (short for Woolworths supermarket), and according to Google Maps there isn't one of those in Laurieton.

Nice pick up, there is a woollies at Lakewood and I remember listening and thought it was Morton too, but thought it must of been Laurieton, but like you cannot find a woollies at laurieton. But Lakewood has woollies and a chemist and butcher and a few other shops and a carpark, although you could pull up on the verge of the road it looks like.I must say I found it weird when he says “headset”

 

[Awakening]

Kendall to Morton is 34 minutes

 

[NRL Fan]

Do you mean that it sounds like "Laurieton"? If so, fair enough, maybe that's what he meant. But I think he definitely says there was a "Woolies" there (short for Woolworths supermarket), and according to Google Maps there isn't one of those in Laurieton.

There is no Woolies in Laurieton, only a Coles, but both have their own chemist. The word Morton is a mystery. There is no Morton town, road or place near Kendall. If the transcript is what was said by the FF, then he slipped up or had a senior's moment 20 years too early.

 

[NRL Fan]

I don't know how phones and vehicles are tracked (and FF had a laptop with him too, see below*) but unless they were all turned off for an extended period I think a small gap in the records, all at the same time, would look questionable. And based on maps, it looks like the only ways in or out of the Lakewood shopping centre go quite close to the service station - NRL Fan, is that correct? Because if the service station CCTV cameras show enough background, it might have been possible for police to see images and times of all vehicles entering or leaving the carpark, in which case they should have known if FF had nipped out between the 9:45 call and the 10:19 chemist.

*From "The usual suspects", Nowhere Child podcast on Listen Notes, 30 Aug 2019
where an actor re-creates FF's statements in a police interview from 1 Sep 2016. (Transcript is by me and I'm only guessing that FF says "Morton" because I can't work out what else it might be. Was Lakewood given a pseudonym?)

(from about 37:52 minutes)
FF: "I went to the little shopping centre at Morton, stopped on the left-hand side of the road coming from Kendall - a little supermarket, a chemist, a Woolies - I sat in the carpark with my laptop and logged on. Headset. I called a contact in Queensland, it was around nine a.m. I filled a script. Drove home. Bolted into action."

btw - Mobile phones had several levels of tracking available to Telsta (in 2014), who had a mobile positioning system deployed. The system has active and passive positioning, where active positioning gives more accurate real time positioning, however they only use active positioning for specific reasons, such as at police request and it's done in real time. For historical data they use metadata and passive positioning information which reports when you move from one cell to another and it's limited to a broader coverage area, such as 1km radius. Passive data and call metadata, from his data and voice sessions would have been used by police wrt the FF's mobile. However, he did have an Apple phone and some Apple specific data might have been available that used the mobile's GPS. Unfortunately, the mobile network can't use the phones GPS for tracking (Not back then and not even today).

 

[Awakening]

There is no Woolies in Laurieton, only a Coles, but both have their own chemist. The word Morton is a mystery. There is no Morton town, road or place near Kendall. If the transcript is what was said by the FF, then he slipped up or had a senior's moment 20 years too early.

There's a Mortons Creek half an hour from Kendall

 

[fazacs1]

I already answered that Q in my comment. This scenario would require the images of WT to have been taken earlier - eg: 7:35.

Does anyone know for certain, have any documents from the court or police, ever been released that state without a doubt, that those 5 images were taken 9.35-9.37

 

[fazacs1]

There's a Mortons Creek half an hour from Kendall

No Woolworths there either, closest is Lakewood

 

[NRL Fan]

There's a Mortons Creek half an hour from Kendall

Yes, but it's not a town, no shops, nothing. It's in the middle of nowhere. Why would he mention this place by mistake, instead of Lakewood ?. Is this a clue ?

 

[NRL Fan]

Does anyone know for certain, have any documents from the court or police, ever been released that state without a doubt, that those 5 images were taken 9.35-9.37

You can't be certain about the time of any picture taken as it relies on the time of the camera to be set correctly and the metadata can be altered (with specific software) anyway.

 

[stormbird]

I went through some podcasts, trying to find FF saying "Lakewood" to see what he sounds like but couldn't find even one example. In one interview he said instead that he was "in town, near Laurieton". I turned on the YouTube "subtitles/closed captions" option to see how it would translate the "Laurieton"... and it didn't, it just left that word out. And it couldn't understand some of his other words:

What FF said v What the auto-transcription said

• I drove in v I driving in
• then my, um, my wife v then my walk my wife
• is William with you v he's moving with you
• I looked oddly at her v I looked fondly at her

from AUDIO_D&ST_5: William's Mum and Dad Speak - Part 1, YouTube, from about 4:37 mins

So now I wonder whether the "Morton" could be just a bad auto-transcription (if the podcast makers were given a video or excerpts of FF's 2016 police interview and had to transcribe it themselves). Maybe the writers didn't know the names of towns and didn't bother to check a map? MOO

 

[stormbird]

Nice pick up, there is a woollies at Lakewood and I remember listening and thought it was Morton too, but thought it must of been Laurieton, but like you cannot find a woollies at laurieton. But Lakewood has woollies and a chemist and butcher and a few other shops and a carpark, although you could pull up on the verge of the road it looks like.I must say I found it weird when he says “headset”

Good point, "you could pull up on the verge of the road". There wouldn't be CCTV on the way in and out of the carpark if FF didn't even drive in there.

 

[Sqotty from office works]

Good point, "you could pull up on the verge of the road". There wouldn't be CCTV on the way in and out of the carpark if FF didn't even drive in there.

You would struggle to park on the verge at Lakewood to Laurieton road.
Could be done but unlikely.

PS don't google search and come back at me with measurements.
It's just not the place to roadside park.

 

[fazacs1]

I went through some podcasts, trying to find FF saying "Lakewood" to see what he sounds like but couldn't find even one example. In one interview he said instead that he was "in town, near Laurieton". I turned on the YouTube "subtitles/closed captions" option to see how it would translate the "Laurieton"... and it didn't, it just left that word out. And it couldn't understand some of his other words:

What FF said v What the auto-transcription said

• I drove in v I driving in
• then my, um, my wife v then my walk my wife
• is William with you v he's moving with you
• I looked oddly at her v I looked fondly at her

from AUDIO_D&ST_5: William's Mum and Dad Speak - Part 1, YouTube, from about 4:37 mins

So now I wonder whether the "Morton" could be just a bad auto-transcription (if the podcast makers were given a video or excerpts of FF's 2016 police interview and had to transcribe it themselves). Maybe the writers didn't know the names of towns and didn't bother to check a map? MOO

FF does say, “I had just finished doing what I was doing in town, near Laurieton”, but IMO , why would he not just say at Lakewood, why even say near Laurieton , if you were in Lakewood?

 

[31550]

Do you mean that it sounds like "Laurieton"? If so, fair enough, maybe that's what he meant. But I think he definitely says there was a "Woolies" there (short for Woolworths supermarket), and according to Google Maps there isn't one of those in Laurieton.

What I meant was that in the podcast, which is a re-enactment of the interview, not the actual recording, the actor playing FF seems to say 'Morton', possibly meaning 'Laurieton'. So, it's possible FF said 'Laurieton' in the interview by mistake. Also possible it was misheard or mistranscribed. Also possible he never said either Laurieton or Morton, but this was inserted (possibly in error) by the podcast producers / editors and not picked up.

Note that in Overington's book, which is well-researched, she reports that FF went to Lakewood pharmacy, not Laurieton. This is reported twice in the book: Once where she recounts the initial story of William's disappearance, and again, where FF gives evidence to the coroner. On both occasions, Lakewood pharmacy is specifically mentioned, not Laurieton.

My take-away is that 'Morton' in the podcast is another red herring or mistake. Not very good form, as Overington had a hand in this podcast, and she does not call out the obvious discrepancy.

 

[NRL Fan]

What I meant was that in the podcast, which is a re-enactment of the interview, not the actual recording, the actor playing FF seems to say 'Morton', possibly meaning 'Laurieton'. So, it's possible FF said 'Laurieton' in the interview by mistake. Also possible it was misheard or mistranscribed. Also possible he never said either Laurieton or Morton, but this was inserted (possibly in error) by the podcast producers / editors and not picked up.

Note that in Overington's book, which is well-researched, she reports that FF went to Lakewood pharmacy, not Laurieton. This is reported twice in the book: Once where she recounts the initial story of William's disappearance, and again, where FF gives evidence to the coroner. On both occasions, Lakewood pharmacy is specifically mentioned, not Laurieton.

My take-away is that 'Morton' in the podcast is another red herring or mistake. Not very good form, as Overington had a hand in this podcast, and she does not call out the obvious discrepancy.

We know he went to Lakewood because of the cctv and receipt at the chemist. If Morton is a slip up to another destination he travelled, it's not an obvious one and as you suggest, it could be a mis-translation.

 

[Lady O]

I know we are short on something to discuss at present, but I don't think there is much to be gained from pulling theories from what JS has supposedly said. Lakewood is just a little suburban mall, built near a lakeside subdivision most likely originally called "Lakewood". Laureton is the main town area. It is also quite possible that "Woolies" to him is just his generic name for supermarket. I think we discussed earlier that there is a pharmacy in both Laureton and at Lakewood shopping mall, both the same franchise, he could have gone to either or both.

 

[31550]

We know he went to Lakewood because of the cctv and receipt at the chemist. If Morton is a slip up to another destination he travelled, it's not an obvious one and as you suggest, it could be a mis-translation.

But to me the mention of 'Morton', even though it is re-voiced, (or perhaps especially because it's re-voiced ) in the podcast should have been picked up by Overington.
Here is the link to the podcast given earlier by stormbird The Usual Suspects - William Tyrrell - Nowhere Child (podcast)
At approx the 38 minute mark the voice actor representing FF says, "I went to the little shopping centre at Morton ...".
Overington introduces this voice clip only a few seconds earlier, and Overington wrote the book which specifically states FF went to Lakewood.
At best, this is lazy editing as "Morton" is completely irrelevant, and Laurieton is known to be incorrect.
So did FF actually say "Morton", "Laurieton", or something else in his interview? We don't know.
But if he said anything other than Lakewood, why didn't Overington pick this discrepancy up?
It may not be obvious to all - but it should have been obvious to her.

 

[stormbird]

You would struggle to park on the verge at Lakewood to Laurieton road.
Could be done but unlikely.

PS don't google search and come back at me with measurements.
It's just not the place to roadside park.

I'm not trying to convince anybody. This is just why I think it's a possibility: it's Ocean Drive at Lakewood not at Laurieton; FF was in a 4WD and he reportedly liked off-roading; and there looks to be a well-established track on the verge alongside the road approaching from Kendall: Google Street View in August 2017 (looking west, the direction he would have approached from) shows the chemist in the background, an apparently short walk through the carpark's boundary hedge plants. Street View in January 2008 shows the verge track was not so well-established, so presumably it grew more prominent over the years through repeated use. MOO

IMO what's unlikely is that FF would say he sat in the carpark if in fact he parked on the verge instead, and if the CCTV at the service station covers the shopping centre entries and exit it should have been possible for police to at least note his absence if he hadn't driven in. On the other hand, if FF did park on the verge instead, and if police did not check the service station CCTV or the cameras did not cover the shopping centre roads, hypothetically it might have been possible for FF to do a quick trip elsewhere between phone call and chemist - an idea floated by NRL Fan - made quicker and easier if he was already sitting on the side of the road and poised for take-off. Nobody is saying he did this; it's a hypothetical scenario, and probably even in theory it doesn't make sense.

The name FF used for the location doesn't particularly matter, IMO, not unless his subconscious choice of an alternative word means something relevant. (If he did go to Lakewood and if he did call it "Morton" instead, does that mean something? Probably not, but maybe.)