Current Disappearance of little William Tyrell

surfstitch

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Over analysing, media reports is a recipe for disaster.

There is a timeline somewhere of when police received the call.
Hi Melsy, there is a timeline. Foster answering how long has he been missing with how long they've been looking is a sideshow those interview analysts might look at I think. Call was made around 11 am.

It's the cars that intrigue me. Foster Mum has apparently forgotten about them despite seeing two cars parked where no one usually parks at 7 am and again just before she says William was last seen around 10.30 am. Besides these two cars which she provides detailed descriptions for 6 days later, there is also the big, weathered, thick necked, red haired man in his late fifties in the third car that she says she stared as as it moved past her on the street. She described that car as “greeny teal looking” and " alloy wheels that didn’t have hub caps, you could see the spokes, silver on the outside, the middle hold, brassy-looking”.

However she had forgotten that she had seen the two parked cars and the moving car 30 minutes later when she was talking to the 000 operator.

When directly asked by the operator if she'd seen anything suspicious or any strange vehicles or anything she says "No" three times. Then says she was outside with her Mum and daughter so? ... should have noticed?

Later explaining why it took her 6 days to remember the detailed descriptions of all the cars and strange man (in previous link) she says the mind plays funny tricks when you're under stress.

However listening to her 000 call she was calm, collected and organised enough to list all Williams physical details including the freckle he has on his head when you part his hair on the left hand side!

Seriously???
 

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Melsy

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Hi Melsy, there is a timeline. Foster answering how long has he been missing with how long they've been looking is a sideshow those interview analysts might look at I think. Call was made around 11 am.

It's the cars that intrigue me. Foster Mum has apparently forgotten about them despite seeing two cars parked where no one usually parks at 7 am and again just before she says William was last seen around 10.30 am. Besides these two cars which she provides detailed descriptions for 6 days later, there is also the big, weathered, thick necked, red haired man in his late fifties in the third car that she says she stared as as it moved past her on the street. She described that car as “greeny teal looking” and " alloy wheels that didn’t have hub caps, you could see the spokes, silver on the outside, the middle hold, brassy-looking”.

However she had forgotten that she had seen the two parked cars and the moving car 30 minutes later when she was talking to the 000 operator.

When directly asked by the operator if she'd seen anything suspicious or any strange vehicles or anything she says "No" three times. Then says she was outside with her Mum and daughter so? ... should have noticed?

Later explaining why it took her 6 days to remember the detailed descriptions of all the cars and strange man (in previous link) she says the mind plays funny tricks when you're under stress.

However listening to her 000 call she was calm, collected and organised enough to list all Williams physical details including the freckle he has on his head when you part his hair on the left hand side!

Seriously???
Adrenalin does distort perception.

Have you a link for these? I haven't seen anything about red-haired man or third vehicle
 

surfstitch

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Adrenalin does distort perception.

Have you a link for these? I haven't seen anything about red-haired man or third vehicle
Was in the first post with a lot of information on the other two parked cars. Cops found the LTD style car but not the man. He sounds like the giant in Jack and the Beanstalk.
https://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/news/william-tyrrells-inquest-starts-in-sydney/news-story/18267d344c2cf0398eb9a3d69832f230

Theres more in this link about the cars as well as a summary of the first week of Inquest.

"It's been a story telling exercise rather than a fact finding one."

Foster grandmother was not called as a witness even though she was the only other adult there when William disappeared. Inquest will be back for 4 weeks later this year when more detials will be given.
 

Melsy

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"The foster mother, who cannot be identified, said she first saw the two cars when she opened the screen doors and drew back the curtains early on the morning of the day William vanished."

https://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/news/william-tyrrells-inquest-starts-in-sydney/news-story/18267d344c2cf0398eb9a3d69832f230

"She also told the court that William and his sister had visited the location where he was kidnapped several times, were known to neighbours and had attended a street party there at Christmas time."

"Each trip to Kendall and overseas had to be done with the permission of the Salvation Army home care group which supervised William’s care at both his foster home and with his biological parents."

"The foster parents had arrived at 9pm on September 11, 2014 put the kids to bed, and she had discussed the fact that her mother’s washing machine needed fixing.

The next morning after 7am, the foster mother saw two cars opposite her on Benaroon Drive, Kendall and immediately thought “that’s odd”.

The white and gunmetal grey cars were “really old, really dirty … with missing hub caps” and “tinted windows”, were parked one in front of the other near a telegraph pole, and between two different driveways.

The reason they looked “weird” was because the large, one-acre blocks on the street “all had long driveways, so if you were visiting someone you’d drive up to the house, not walk from the street."

*Do note Benaroon was not a continuation at the time into the forest.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Benaroon+Dr,+Kendall+NSW+2439/@-31.6411084,152.6927946,662m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x6b75e451b77df6d9:0xf45400a60c204b4f!8m2!3d-31.6400489!4d152.6938138
 
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Melsy

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The car with the redhead had been discovered? Does this mean police have looked at Redheads associates?

The foster mother also became upset when she was describing another car in the street that morning driven by a “thick-necked” man with a weathered face who had given her a challenging stare.

“You know when you look at someone and there’s that second challenge, ‘why are you watching me, I am watching you’.

“It was fleeting.”

The foster mother said that the police had since identified the car.

https://www.news.com.au/national/ns...y/news-story/18267d344c2cf0398eb9a3d69832f230
 

Melsy

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So William arrived at 9pm (Thursday) then the cars were there at 7am Friday. The intricate detail of the conversation with washing machine man will be paramount. Had they discussed Williams arrival.

Someone in the past suggested one of the bio family relatives also lived in Benaroon being mindful William had been in the street on several other occasions.


The foster parents had arrived at 9pm on September 11, 2014 put the kids to bed, and she had discussed the fact that her mother’s washing machine needed fixing.

The next morning after 7am, the foster mother saw two cars opposite her on Benaroon Drive, Kendall and immediately thought “that’s odd”.

The white and gunmetal grey cars were “really old, really dirty … with missing hub caps” and “tinted windows”, were parked one in front of the other near a telegraph pole, and between two different driveways.

The reason they looked “weird” was because the large, one acre blocks on the street “all had long driveways, so if you were visiting someone you’d drive up to the house, not walk from the street.


https://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/news/william-tyrrells-inquest-starts-in-sydney/news-story/18267d344c2cf0398eb9a3d69832f230
 

Melsy

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This is an aerial of Jones house, not the one with the white station wagon and grey sedan. Thats next door.

 

Melsy

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surfstitch

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So William arrived at 9pm (Thursday) then the cars were there at 7am Friday. The intricate detail of the conversation with washing machine man will be paramount. Had they discussed Williams arrival.

Someone in the past suggested one of the bio family relatives also lived in Benaroon being mindful William had been in the street on several other occasions.


The foster parents had arrived at 9pm on September 11, 2014 put the kids to bed, and she had discussed the fact that her mother’s washing machine needed fixing.

The next morning after 7am, the foster mother saw two cars opposite her on Benaroon Drive, Kendall and immediately thought “that’s odd”.

The white and gunmetal grey cars were “really old, really dirty … with missing hub caps” and “tinted windows”, were parked one in front of the other near a telegraph pole, and between two different driveways.

The reason they looked “weird” was because the large, one acre blocks on the street “all had long driveways, so if you were visiting someone you’d drive up to the house, not walk from the street.

https://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/news/william-tyrrells-inquest-starts-in-sydney/news-story/18267d344c2cf0398eb9a3d69832f230
No bio relatives living nearby or in the same street or they would have been at Inquest.

Foster mother has amazingly detailed descriptions of two cars she says was there at 7 am Friday then again around 10.30 am Friday. Also, the close look she got of the giant person who stared at her moving past in a car, just minutes before she says they were looking for William.

Co-incidence that two of the cars could match a couple of local pedos cars?

However she forgets all of this, the cars and the detailed description of the cars and strange looking large red haired man minutes later, when she rang 000.

Her memory wasn't jogged by the operator specifically asking her if she'd seen anything suspicious or any strange vehicles or anything she says "No" three times. She said she was sitting outside drinking tea and implies she or her mother would have seen something.

Not possible that she just remembered all of these descriptions 6 days?

She says the mind plays funny tricks when trying to explain how she could remember minute details when she remembered nothing minutes after she saw the cars and giant, when she rang 000. She was calm and collected in her 000 call and able to methodically list physical William's characteristics including a freckle he has on his head you can see when he parts his hair a certain way!

The only time she was flustered in the 000 call was when the operator asked her how long William had been missing.

Cops say they believe there was human intervention in William's disappearance and if there were no cars belonging to the known pedos or random giants around, if they were a figment of the foster mothers imagination, that changes the narrative the media have been presenting doesn't it?

https://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/news/william-tyrrells-inquest-starts-in-sydney/news-story/18267d344c2cf0398eb9a3d69832f230
 

Melsy

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No bio relatives living nearby or in the same street or they would have been at Inquest.

Foster mother has amazingly detailed descriptions of two cars she says was there at 7 am Friday then again around 10.30 am Friday. Also, the close look she got of the giant person who stared at her moving past in a car, just minutes before she says they were looking for William.

Co-incidence that two of the cars could match a couple of local pedos cars?

However she forgets all of this, the cars and the detailed description of the cars and strange looking large red haired man minutes later, when she rang 000.

Her memory wasn't jogged by the operator specifically asking her if she'd seen anything suspicious or any strange vehicles or anything she says "No" three times. She said she was sitting outside drinking tea and implies she or her mother would have seen something.

Not possible that she just remembered all of these descriptions 6 days?

She says the mind plays funny tricks when trying to explain how she could remember minute details when she remembered nothing minutes after she saw the cars and giant, when she rang 000. She was calm and collected in her 000 call and able to methodically list physical William's characteristics including a freckle he has on his head you can see when he parts his hair a certain way!

The only time she was flustered in the 000 call was when the operator asked her how long William had been missing.

Cops say they believe there was human intervention in William's disappearance and if there were no cars belonging to the known pedos or random giants around, if they were a figment of the foster mothers imagination, that changes the narrative the media have been presenting doesn't it?

https://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/news/william-tyrrells-inquest-starts-in-sydney/news-story/18267d344c2cf0398eb9a3d69832f230
No step sisters or girlfriends of boyfriends? Maybe my source is wrong, or someone was missed who lived in Benaroon?
 

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DropBearess

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I am confused as to why anyone would leave an infant to play outside, out of sight, if strange cars had been observed in close proximity that morning. Foster mum states it was an unusual occurence for unidentified vehicles to be there without reason.
 

surfstitch

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No step sisters or girlfriends of boyfriends? Maybe my source is wrong, or someone was missed who lived in Benaroon?
Was it this guy who was staying with his sister and brother in law in a house directly across from Foster Nanny?

Gregory Newton then took the stand, a tall man with a full head of white hair, who resembled country singer, Charlie Rich.

Mr Newton’s brother-in-law and late sister lived directly across from the house where William vanished.

Mr Craddock asked him about where his brother-in-law was standing on Benaroon Drive before the two men joined in a line search.

He told us that Mr Newton’s son played for the Coffs Harbour Snappers rugby union team, and that he was staying in Kendall with his sister to see the boy play.


There was the off duty cop.

Senior Constable Wendy Hudson had been on her rostered day off at the Kendall Tennis Club when she heard about the missing boy and joined the search with her two teenage sons.

Sen Const Hudson managed to speak with William’s sister about whether the boy had hiding places.

“I wasn’t tough with here, but I had an opportunity to speak to her,” Hudson said.

“There were no hiding places.”

Asked by Mr Craddock if the foster father and foster grandmother’s vehicles had been searched, she said, “not be me”.


And there were other neighbours that helped but not related. Did they mean relations of the foster family that might have been around?

 

surfstitch

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I am confused as to why anyone would leave an infant to play outside, out of sight, if strange cars had been observed in close proximity that morning. Foster mum states it was an unusual occurence for unidentified vehicles to be there without reason.
Especially when there were no fences anywhere between properties or road. Foster Mum only remembered about the cars 6 days later despite being asked specifically is there were any strange cars or anything else suspicious in her recorded 000 call and no doubt by the cops when they arrived.

That's why I don't believe the cars were there. It' all a bit of a co-incidence that the descriptions match some known local pedos.
 

surfstitch

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This was interesting as well.

Conducting the inquest was NSW deputy state coroner Harriet Grahame, but steering it was counsel assisting, Gerard Craddock, SC.

The counsel assisting was more like a Sunday school teacher than the customary smiling assassin prosecutor forensically extracting the evidence.


He asked questions about how cups of tea were poured before William vanished, how thick the lantana scrub was and how steep were the fire trail was.

The aim of this preliminary week of the inquest, which will resume in August, was to provide background to William’s birth and foster families, his disappearance and the massive search.

Lined up on the bar table was a bank of lawyers representing everyone but the birth parents.

The foster parents had two lawyers, the FACS department one senior counsel instructed by the Crown Solicitor.

A lawyer for the Salvation Army, which had co-supervised with FACS some of William’s fostering, sat by two lawyers representing a neighbour and a washing machine repairman.

Why the two men, who are neither suspects nor “persons of interest”, needed lawyers was unclear.

The biological family had no lawyer and most of them had no protection from the glare of the media, other than non-publication orders that have suppressed the names of all families, foster and biological.
 

Melsy

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This was interesting as well.

Conducting the inquest was NSW deputy state coroner Harriet Grahame, but steering it was counsel assisting, Gerard Craddock, SC.

The counsel assisting was more like a Sunday school teacher than the customary smiling assassin prosecutor forensically extracting the evidence.

He asked questions about how cups of tea were poured before William vanished, how thick the lantana scrub was and how steep were the fire trail was.

The aim of this preliminary week of the inquest, which will resume in August, was to provide background to William’s birth and foster families, his disappearance and the massive search.

Lined up on the bar table was a bank of lawyers representing everyone but the birth parents.

The foster parents had two lawyers, the FACS department one senior counsel instructed by the Crown Solicitor.

A lawyer for the Salvation Army, which had co-supervised with FACS some of William’s fostering, sat by two lawyers representing a neighbour and a washing machine repairman.

Why the two men, who are neither suspects nor “persons of interest”, needed lawyers was unclear.

The biological family had no lawyer and most of them had no protection from the glare of the media, other than non-publication orders that have suppressed the names of all families, foster and biological.
Sometimes I wonder if this was the motive, so FACs ends up in court with the supervisor parents. Early investigations were of GAPA (GrandparentsParents Again)

Police believe it was an abduction and I do to. I don't believe it be misadventure.

The Inquest will wring out some good info.
 
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Melsy

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The biological family had no lawyer and most of them had no protection from the glare of the media, other than non-publication orders that have suppressed the names of all families, foster and biological.
It is said that this is why children in protective care are often targeted by seasoned paedophiles. Just like one POI had an association with autistic children.

Being under care actually hinders an investigation making those children in care a target.
 

surfstitch

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Sometimes I wonder if this was the motive, so FACs ends up in court with the supervisor parents. Early investigations were of GAPA (GrandparentsParents Again)

Police believe it was an abduction and I do to. I don't believe it be misadventure.

The Inquest will wring out some good info.
I think the last thing they want is for the foster system to be any way on display here and think that's why media and cops have seemed to go out of their way not to question anything close to suspicious behaviour from the foster mum and Dad. And if the facts are reported as they have in one or to articles, there is suspicious behaviours from both.

There is no one to question the foster parents if the Inquiry continues it's sunday school inquisition and the biological parents don't get lawyers.

GAPA is interesting as the foster grandpa before he died may have been a member. Not saying anything suspicious about him, but he may have heard some rumours about Spedo or Tony Jones if they were members. Co-incidentally his daughter just seems to remember cars on the street 6 days after William disappeared at least one of which that Melsy has pointed to being very similar to Jones.

Was someone deliberately pointing a finger towards him or them?
 

shellyg

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New podcast out. Where's William Tyrell?

Not even halfway through the first episode and found out the biological parents had no idea where William was, who his foster parents were or even what kind of car they drove. In the circumstances that information was kept very quiet.
 

BlueE

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New podcast out. Where's William Tyrell?

Not even halfway through the first episode and found out the biological parents had no idea where William was, who his foster parents were or even what kind of car they drove. In the circumstances that information was kept very quiet.
I had a listen to this and interestingly it mentions Gary Jubelin the cop in charge and a cop with an excellent reputation, has been charged with listening to conversations without permission. He says that the conversations were critical to solving Williams abduction.

Jubelin was removed from the investigation in Feb I think. So did he ask and not get permission for listening devices and why not as he said they were crucial to the investigation? Or did he just use listening devices without permission for some reason? Who could these conversations be on, as I imagine there would be any difficulty getting permission to listen in on some of the shady characters in the area at the time.
 

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I had a listen to this and interestingly it mentions Gary Jubelin the cop in charge and a cop with an excellent reputation, has been charged with listening to conversations without permission. He says that the conversations were critical to solving Williams abduction.

Jubelin was removed from the investigation in Feb I think. So did he ask and not get permission for listening devices and why not as he said they were crucial to the investigation? Or did he just use listening devices without permission for some reason? Who could these conversations be on, as I imagine there would be any difficulty getting permission to listen in on some of the shady characters in the area at the time.
What may have happened is he's risked the investigation and a prosecution on tapes that can't be admitted into evidence.

I don't know if it was covert listening devices, the police do it all the time gathering general intel without a warrant and not following the rules (allegedly) One of those rules aside from a warrant is that there has to be a police officer/s listening in all the time and taking notes that are also used at trial so it's not as simple as it seems.

You probably could get 20 warrants but what's the point if you don't have an extra 40 men and 20 vans to sit around monitoring every conversation? And likely have to get the team who can do it to come in from Sydney.
 

shellyg

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I had a listen to this and interestingly it mentions Gary Jubelin the cop in charge and a cop with an excellent reputation, has been charged with listening to conversations without permission. He says that the conversations were critical to solving Williams abduction.
The thing that gave me the absolute horrors, was that the tracking dogs picked up William's scent in the yard on the grass and that was it. They couldn't track him, not even to the road. Like he was picked up and vanished into the sky in a split second.

It made me wonder if someone was under that house hiding, just waiting for the right moment. Really scary.
 

BlueE

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What may have happened is he's risked the investigation and a prosecution on tapes that can't be admitted into evidence.

I don't know if it was covert listening devices, the police do it all the time gathering general intel without a warrant and not following the rules (allegedly) One of those rules aside from a warrant is that there has to be a police officer/s listening in all the time and taking notes that are also used at trial so it's not as simple as it seems.

You probably could get 20 warrants but what's the point if you don't have an extra 40 men and 20 vans to sit around monitoring every conversation? And likely have to get the team who can do it to come in from Sydney.
He seems to be the only cop to have moved the investigation along. Whether finding the abductor relies on tapes that can't be admitted into evidence on a technicality is flimsy.

I'm curious what gets you removed from the investigation with criminal charges laid?
 

BlueE

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The thing that gave me the absolute horrors, was that the tracking dogs picked up William's scent in the yard on the grass and that was it. They couldn't track him, not even to the road. Like he was picked up and vanished into the sky in a split second.

It made me wonder if someone was under that house hiding, just waiting for the right moment. Really scary.
Picked up and taken to a car? The person could have come from a car and picked him up, didn't have to be hiding in under house.

How close to the driveway was this spot?
 

shellyg

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Picked up and taken to a car? The person could have come from a car and picked him up, didn't have to be hiding in under house.

How close to the driveway was this spot?
Except nobody saw a car and they were on the verandah which goes right across the front of the house. That house is on a corner bend at the end of a dead end road. There's a bush track at the end of it but if you were to snatch a child would you risk using it to get away?

I think the police might know who did this.
 
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