Current Disappearance of little William Tyrrell *Homicide gets an AVO on the foster parents

Remove this Banner Ad

Pies1990

Debutant
Dec 9, 2021
93
164
AFL Club
Collingwood
IMO he definitely didn’t walk off. If we go with the dog theory, he was put in a car.
But there were no cars seen in the street apart from FFFC later triggered *memories*.

And the community search for the lost boy was so significant that police knew early on there was human intervention. Homicide was involved super early on.

I’m having trouble understanding how the FFFC thought straight away “somebody took him”, but later on suddenly tells police there were 2 cars. I’m sure her mind would be racing thinking if he was taken, then how? I’m surprised she didn’t mention the cars earlier?
 

Awakening

Senior List
Oct 23, 2021
216
631
AFL Club
West Coast
IIRC, there were a few other children living in that street.

So I suppose it's possible that someone had been lurking in that area unnoticed on and off for days or weeks or months. Using the thick bushland as a cover.

Maybe they were biding their time to snatch a child, any child, and unfortunately it was William who crossed their path at the right moment.
 

Log in to remove this ad.

CodyRose

Debutant
Dec 8, 2021
70
66
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
There were two versions, officially, as were written about in Caroline Overington’s book, but Ben (the case worker) from FACS documented that WT fell on the coffee table when climbing on FFFC when she was having tea.

CO recommended going with that version as “Ben takes good notes.”

IMO I don’t think FFFC has given the child a black eye. I understand WT received hospital care for the injury and I’m sure the medical staff are very familiar with the different types of childhood injuries and which ones look suspicious and which ones don’t match up with the caregiver’s account of events.
Tea again
 

Poppy Penny

Draftee
Jan 12, 2022
4
9
AFL Club
Essendon
Sure, so let's all find out everything about the case after a trial.
IMO he definitely didn’t walk off. If we go with the dog theory, he was put in a car.
But there were no cars seen in the street apart from FFFC later triggered *memories*.

And the community search for the lost boy was so significant that police knew early on there was human intervention. Homicide was involved super early on.

Maybe a planned ‘hand over‘ with knowledge? Still alive maybe?
 

Lady O

Senior List
Dec 8, 2021
153
222
AFL Club
Essendon
The fact that the dogs got no scent beyond the property seems to indicate he didn’t walk off

There are lots of reasons why the dog didn't find his trail outside of the driveway. Yes, he might have been taken in a car. But remember, the dog didn't arrive for 2 hours and by that time a lot of people had been over the street looking for him, making it difficult for the dog to pick up a scent. If WT went off down the road, rather than the footpath, then that is a difficult surface for a dog to follow, especially with a lot of overlaying scent and vehicles coming and going. I put it at no 1 because I still think the most likely scenario is the most likely.
 

Dogs_R_Us

Space Traveller
May 3, 2001
19,718
21,539
Sirius - the Dogstar
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
There are lots of reasons why the dog didn't find his trail outside of the driveway. Yes, he might have been taken in a car. But remember, the dog didn't arrive for 2 hours and by that time a lot of people had been over the street looking for him, making it difficult for the dog to pick up a scent. If WT went off down the road, rather than the footpath, then that is a difficult surface for a dog to follow, especially with a lot of overlaying scent and vehicles coming and going. I put it at no 1 because I still think the most likely scenario is the most likely.
I sort of agree with the wandered-off theory. May have seen an animal and followed it, fell into a deep ditch or creek. The bright red outfit should have been seen anywhere though, even under water unless it was really deep. Wouldn't they have checked watercourses in the area though? When a kid goes missing on a property the first place they check is the dam :(.
Any disused mine shafts in the area (I've no idea if there's ever been mining there). Or caves? Often the entrances are overgrown and hardly visible but a small child could slip into a tiny crack. If he was knocked out by a fall he wouldn't have been able to respond to people calling him.

Abduction does seem extraordinarily opportunistic - do paedophiles hang out in remote dead-end roads on the offchance?

Yet murder is unexplainable in any context.
 

Lady O

Senior List
Dec 8, 2021
153
222
AFL Club
Essendon
I sort of agree with the wandered-off theory. May have seen an animal and followed it, fell into a deep ditch or creek. The bright red outfit should have been seen anywhere though, even under water unless it was really deep. Wouldn't they have checked watercourses in the area though? When a kid goes missing on a property the first place they check is the dam :(.
Any disused mine shafts in the area (I've no idea if there's ever been mining there). Or caves? Often the entrances are overgrown and hardly visible but a small child could slip into a tiny crack. If he was knocked out by a fall he wouldn't have been able to respond to people calling him.

Abduction does seem extraordinarily opportunistic - do paedophiles hang out in remote dead-end roads on the offchance?

Yet murder is unexplainable in any context.

Yes, but as we have seen lately, you can always be surprised. Can you believe little AJ was found only 500m from where he went missing, with so many people searching for him? If he hadn't been spotted from the helicopter, maybe he wouldn't have been found either. They decided WT would be unlikely to go uphill as children 'don't do' this and he had asthma. So I think the search was probably not extensive in that direction. I doubt he was looked for in the direction of Kendall, but there is a river only 1.5km from Benaroon Dr. They also decided early on that he had been abducted, so perhaps after the initial search of the bush land without result, they put their resources into tracking down the abductor.

There has been two separate people in the last few years in my local area who have gone missing and after extensive searches, their remains have eventually been found 500 & 300mtrs from where they were last seen and this is not a scrubby or forest area.
 

CodyRose

Debutant
Dec 8, 2021
70
66
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
My son constantly fell and bruised himself as a toddler. They are impetuous, excitable, sometimes disobedient, and don't look where they're going and fall against furniture etc. It certainly sounds as if William was that sort of child.
Left handedness can make kids more “clumsy” as the world is right handed.
 

CodyRose

Debutant
Dec 8, 2021
70
66
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
Lucky but not exceptionally so. William was 4. A man could pick him up and put him in a car in well under a minute. Maybe it was planned, maybe it was opportunistic. There are 25,000,000 people in Australia, everywhere all the time. Unfortunately, from time to time circumstances align such that sick predators are able to access victims with no witnesses and leave the scene.
Isn’t there a trail through the forest to the cemetry
 

Kurve

Moderator
Dec 27, 2016
17,591
38,298
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
Maybe not a stranger some one he knew

Still left with the same question of how they got in and out of that court without being seen.

If the Coroner comes back with the suggestion that he might have been missing off the property for longer than the FM calculations, it is possible he wandered off. They can make fast time. I took a friends little boy shopping about the same age as William, only took my eyes off him for a minute and when I turned around he was gone. I panicked and ran out of the shop into a huge carpark and there he was, walking slightly behind another lady who had the same colour hair as mine and wearing a very similar long black coat. I never sprinted so hard in all my life, three more seconds and they would have been out of my line of sight.

Of course in split second thoughts I was suspicious it was an attempted abduction but he might have got distracted and run after someone he thought was me. When I yelled out 'hey you stop', she didn't run. She looked confused as if she hadn't really noticed him.

Point is, it was terrifying how fast that happened and they were nearly out of the carpark, at least 60m.
 

Awakening

Senior List
Oct 23, 2021
216
631
AFL Club
West Coast
I think it's possible he wandered off and was never found. With all due respect to searchers and the dogs, I think sometimes we overestimate what they can do. I'm not putting down their skills just pointing out that a search can be extremely difficult but especially in the area they were in. I've seen dogs do amazing things but in another case the same dog can't detect the scent.

Kids are unpredictable too. They are changing and evolving all the time. One minute they are crawling and cruising furniture, next minute walking independently. One day they are afraid to climb a tree but the next day trying to jump from the top of play equipment. At least that's my experience of having 2 very active boys.

Based on the information publicly available, I suspect William was gone for longer than the FFC cared to admit to herself or anyone else. I don't blame her for that, I'm not a perfect parent. You can be super vigilant with your kids, participating in lots of activities with them, and then you stop to go to the toilet, get distracted by toys on the floor and stop to pick them up, or you stop to make a cup of tea and getting engrossed in a conversation with your mum who you haven't seen for months. You can see your foster daughter and you can hear your foster son roaring and jumping around. I suspect when she suddenly noticed the silence, he had been silent for a while. Not seconds but minutes.

At that age my boys had 2 speeds: turtle and flat out. They were either refusing to walk, stopping to look at every ant or would take off at break neck speed and could cover a fair distance in a short time. The oldest was FAST, and now regularly wins or places in cross country events.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

jason_recliner

Senior List
Dec 9, 2020
277
433
AFL Club
West Coast
I suspect when she suddenly noticed the silence, he had been silent for a while. Not seconds but minutes.

This. It would take a me a while to register that noises I heard coming from the play room or yard had ceased. And then a while longer for me to decide that something isn't right and go check - it's not like kids are never quiet, so he could just be having a quiet moment. That's easily long enough for a child to wander off a long way, or for somebody to take him/her a long way in a car.

I still consider abduction by vehicle a sadly likely possibility. I'm not convinced that the timeframe is as tight as has been generally accepted, and that people would notice and be able to recall every single car coming and going over a period, even on a quiet country street. But wandering off and/or abduction on foot is also a possibility IMO. As has been said, sniffer dogs are amazing but not infallible.
 

kat1234

Team Captain
Nov 23, 2021
354
435
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
“Based on the information publicly available, I suspect William was gone for longer than the FFC cared to admit to herself or anyone else.”

I’m really hoping when the inquest returns to court that the Coroner might be able to shed some light on the timeline.

I also wonder if the 000 call was intentionally fairly casual as the FFC was trying to intentionally play down how worried she was, as maybe she knew he’d been missing for a while but didn’t want the operator to suspect that the situation was so dire?
 

kat1234

Team Captain
Nov 23, 2021
354
435
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
I’m having trouble understanding how the FFFC thought straight away “somebody took him”, but later on suddenly tells police there were 2 cars. I’m sure her mind would be racing thinking if he was taken, then how? I’m surprised she didn’t mention the cars earlier?
No one has corroborated seeing the cars. I don’t find this part of FFFC statement to be reliable at all based on the fact that she was asked and she told the 000 operator she’d not seen any cars.
 

kat1234

Team Captain
Nov 23, 2021
354
435
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
There are lots of reasons why the dog didn't find his trail outside of the driveway. Yes, he might have been taken in a car. But remember, the dog didn't arrive for 2 hours and by that time a lot of people had been over the street looking for him, making it difficult for the dog to pick up a scent. If WT went off down the road, rather than the footpath, then that is a difficult surface for a dog to follow, especially with a lot of overlaying scent and vehicles coming and going. I put it at no 1 because I still think the most likely scenario is the most likely.
The dog worked so hard he had to receive veterinary care when he was done. I’d like to think he and his handler did a very thorough job.
 

BFew

Norm Smith Medallist
Mar 5, 2017
7,146
22,796
AFL Club
West Coast
I heard the dogs escaped because they had no leads
emoji2960.png
WHO let the dogs out. (?)
 

Awakening

Senior List
Oct 23, 2021
216
631
AFL Club
West Coast
Was FGM a member of GAPA (Grandparents As Parents Again)?

I don't get it? Why would foster grandma be in a group for grandparents who take up the parenting responsibility or their grandkids? Or do you mean bio grandma? Or have I missed something?
 

Remove this Banner Ad

Remove this Banner Ad