What do you mean? It looked like they were barely trying. If that is our 2023 game plan we are f**ked.
Autopsy Disappointing Dogs Go Down To Swans 120-67
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Swans used the corridor on the widest ground in the AFL but we play safe and move the ball along the boundary. We handball,handball and handball again while the swans kick the ball under no pressure to open players.
This game demonstrated how poorly coached we are. Our game plan is from another era and our stubborn coach refuses to move on. His blind faith in vfl players over young far more talented players is baffling. Bevo had his moment, thanks for the flag But a good club would not accept this rubbish and move the coach on at the end of year.
west Tried his guts out and Schache is far more courageous and determined than Bevo favourite Robbie who is all bluff. The guy rarely ever lays a tackle but because he runs around like a headless chook Bevo thinks he is great And he is a great story and we know Bevo loves his stories.
Finally I think the players have realised it is just too hard playing a game plan that is so inept. First time I think I have seen he has lost the players confidence.
This game demonstrated how poorly coached we are. Our game plan is from another era and our stubborn coach refuses to move on. His blind faith in vfl players over young far more talented players is baffling. Bevo had his moment, thanks for the flag But a good club would not accept this rubbish and move the coach on at the end of year.
west Tried his guts out and Schache is far more courageous and determined than Bevo favourite Robbie who is all bluff. The guy rarely ever lays a tackle but because he runs around like a headless chook Bevo thinks he is great And he is a great story and we know Bevo loves his stories.
Finally I think the players have realised it is just too hard playing a game plan that is so inept. First time I think I have seen he has lost the players confidence.
Dog 36
Norm Smith Medallist
It all depends on what you want your number 1 ruck to look like.
If you want a mobile ruck that plays like another midfielder, wants to minimise physical contact, has limited tap work ability, won’t want to crash and bash and use physical strength to create a space for the midfielders then yes he may make it.
English got beaten by Ladhams and then Reid finished him off that was real disappointing.
I switched off halfway through the first quarter in a mixture of frustration and embarrassment, so I won’t comment on the game itself except to say well done to those of you who stuck it out.
Playing Treloar and Hannan in defence - the latter in particular - is indicative of an approach to team selection that borders on sabotage. It’s insane that a senior AFL coach does these things.
Home and away finishes under Bevo - 6th, 7th, 10th, 13th, 7th, 7th, 5th, ? (likely 9-12). No top four finishes in eight years. During this period, 12 clubs have finished top four - the only ones who haven’t are the dogs, blues, suns, kangaroos, bombers and saints. Great company.
If there’s no substantive change in how this coach, footy department and match committee approach the home and away season next year (in year nine of his tenure) then it’s done. Last year’s GF papered over the cracks, because the players are consistently not being put in a position to succeed.
Playing Treloar and Hannan in defence - the latter in particular - is indicative of an approach to team selection that borders on sabotage. It’s insane that a senior AFL coach does these things.
Home and away finishes under Bevo - 6th, 7th, 10th, 13th, 7th, 7th, 5th, ? (likely 9-12). No top four finishes in eight years. During this period, 12 clubs have finished top four - the only ones who haven’t are the dogs, blues, suns, kangaroos, bombers and saints. Great company.
If there’s no substantive change in how this coach, footy department and match committee approach the home and away season next year (in year nine of his tenure) then it’s done. Last year’s GF papered over the cracks, because the players are consistently not being put in a position to succeed.
We have been off the pace for most of this season. Our defence which was largely protected by our dominant midfield last year has been fully exploited for what it is this year.
The players have not been hungry enough all season and I have lost count on how many times opposition players have waltzed through 2 0r 3 of our defenders weak tackles and kicked goals.
Libba, English, Treloar, West & Naughton have been excellent but the rest have gone backwards.
I don't like singling players out but I am fast losing hope that JUH will make it. Goes for loads of marks but rarely gets anywhere near it and looks to be struggling for fitness. Bont has been a shadow of himself all year & Dale is nowhere near his AA form of last season. There are others too but will save for later.
The year is done, we are not going to play finals. The run home is too hard and we aren't good enough.
Give Darcy a few games to get a taste for it and ensure Bruce and McLean are ready to go next year.
We need an injection of guts and effort as well as a decent KPD otherwise forget next year as well.
The players have not been hungry enough all season and I have lost count on how many times opposition players have waltzed through 2 0r 3 of our defenders weak tackles and kicked goals.
Libba, English, Treloar, West & Naughton have been excellent but the rest have gone backwards.
I don't like singling players out but I am fast losing hope that JUH will make it. Goes for loads of marks but rarely gets anywhere near it and looks to be struggling for fitness. Bont has been a shadow of himself all year & Dale is nowhere near his AA form of last season. There are others too but will save for later.
The year is done, we are not going to play finals. The run home is too hard and we aren't good enough.
Give Darcy a few games to get a taste for it and ensure Bruce and McLean are ready to go next year.
We need an injection of guts and effort as well as a decent KPD otherwise forget next year as well.
Disappointing. First game I've turned off in 5 to 10 years. Hannan to a hbf? Treloar on Heeney? Again this is not these boys fault I thought Treloar tried but who makes these moves.
Ins: M Boyd or Gia. Also what's Joel Corey doing he was a fantastic midfield coach
Ins: M Boyd or Gia. Also what's Joel Corey doing he was a fantastic midfield coach
Dog 36
Norm Smith Medallist
That’s rubbish.
All that was from centre bounce to the end was Bev saying I will do what I want when I want and no one has or will hold me accountable
If that was fighting the rest of the year out then hate to see what it looks like when we don’t put up a fight.
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Laughable people thought we'd be better off without Caleb in defence. Last night showed without him, stop dale and we lose all ball movement. Midfield outworked again. Poor defensive running. Back 6 embarrassing mistakes all round. Shocking display.
This. It is nice to pull off 6-8 handballs in a row. It looks great, but achieves nothing 90% of the time. When we inevitably f*ck it up and it gets turned over and bombed down the other end where Gardner is waiting to f*ck it up further.
grassman75
Norm Smith Medallist
I get the sentiment, but none of those clubs you listed have a) played in 2 Grand Finals and won one of them in that 8 years. In fact most of them have barely played a final.
Of all the other teams, in that 8 years only Haw, Rich, Melb, WC have won flags. This year TBC.
Bevo is a strange cat at times but for all the frustration I'm happy to take our lot from the last 8 years over top 4 and winning nothing.
- Sep 27, 2005
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I think that the Bont is playing hurt. And that is why we haven't seen much out of him all year. Looks like most of the squad have checked out for the year.
And we all should follow. Send a message to the club that this is beyond s***.
Al dente
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id be trading Dunks, the reason we chain handballs out of the stoppage to a free player is for that player to then find a team mate. Too often now, Dunkley is that free guy, and with his athletic and kicking limitations, he kicks a mongrel punt straight to the opposition. the only positive is that if Treloar is near by he gives it to him
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Not much I disagree with on this thread. Yesterday was so very disappointing. I had to turn off at 3/4 time. I feel sorry for some of the players. Our coaching is not to the standard it needs to be and unless things change our window of opportunity is gone. Just so many negatives the last few weeks. The club either needs to completely overhaul the coaching staff in support of bevo or we need to move on. Over it.
Watched the presser. Apparently we had a few blokes who haven’t experienced the kind of pressure that Sydney brought. Give me a spell. The competition has gone past us too apparently. So how did we prepare for that eventuation? By doing nothing to strengthen the areas in the team that are vulnerable, not changing the game plan enough, continuing to mess with team selection and structures, and having an inexperienced coaching brigade. Has to be a review into the football aspect of the club. All great organisations continually evaluate.
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Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com
Al dente
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Its really disheartening that after all weve been through developing English and the second ruck debacle that we still cant expect an AFL standard base level of competitiveness from the guy. I think the Bevo/English relationship dynamic needs to be questioned, he just cant find a way to bring his base performance up, despite his ceiling performance increasing.
Al dente
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good pick up, although i think he's been slightly off for a few weeks now, just not damaging anymore and prone to getting caught and turnovers
I assume there is a lot of “frustration bias” ( if there is such a thing) in my observation but every week I get annoyed at how easily opponents set up a chain of possessions from kick ins but we struggle to find a free team mate every time. Has to be on the coaching.
Dear defensive coach... here is an idea.... see who wants to play. Beat your opponent one on one! Run out at the start of the game and look at your opponents number on his back and beat him one on one.
We are losing anyway, see who wants to play! too many times this zone defense allows players to bludge!
We are losing anyway, see who wants to play! too many times this zone defense allows players to bludge!
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Loved the look of Bedendo, such a sweet mover in traffic. Looks like you've got a good kid there with plenty of tools
Went to the game - it was freezing! Unfortunately- I would have prefer to be frozen solid than have to watch that game.
Yes - I am the often delusional captain positive but starting with the positives:
1. Ed really tried and was the only one who looked genuinely pissed off and want to get physical contact. When the hard stuff was on he lifted.
2. Trelor played in the wrong position - not as bad as the incredible decision to play Hannan above Crozier but not far off. But what Trelor did is have it everything and pushed hard - he also seemed to take leadership in the defence - calling them all in a letting them have it a few times. I don’t know what disposals he had but just have been over 30 from HBF. Effectively tried to play Caleb role and was one of our best.
3. West has it. Was not his best game but better than most more experienced players and when he moved into the guts was able to finally slow them down a bit.
4. Good to see García back - did some good things. Bedendo also did some. Good things but still looked a bit off - good future.
5. Schache worked his gut out and could have easily kicked three. He still hesitated too much but did not drop off into the distance and as the game went on tried to get into the game more. Naughty can hardly run - it is ridiculous- but when he was being managed Schache stood up.
I am searching for more positives but hard to find them.
“Areas for improvement”:
Defence is about system - particularly when you don’t have stars. We were sitting higher than normal and had a really good look at how they set up.
It was horrible - no system. It almost looked like they were playing old school man on man but constantly from behind. No intercepts and no clear pathway out - just boundary hugging panic kicks.
Hannan instead of Crozier - is a high risk move that failed. What has happened to Crozier - he had a bad first game back last week - wasn’t alone in that though against a top team but he is a star defender and has been killing it in defence in the twos. I would back him in and can’t understand his poor treatment.
Williams has fallen off a cliff - if he is trying to remove bad parts of his game - he has lost all the good ones. Slow and avoiding contact.
The most obvious thing at the game was attitude- Swans came hunting - first to the ball, really focussed on tackling - they were positive and giving each other energy from the first bounce. They were ok knocking the ball forward because they backed themselves.
They always looked like they had one extra player at the contest and were happy to take a forward out to beat us in numbers. We didn’t even up though the tactic was obvious from the first few minutes.
Both McCartins had field days taking no pressure intercepts by looking themselves short on the flanks and relying on pressure up the ground to force a bomb to the flank. Because we had no run and no system to drop back and precision kick forward - our usual system Dale, Daniel and previously Williams. This worked for the Swans and we didn’t react - kept doing the same thing and expecting a different outcome….
Gards Gards Gards - I have backed him not because I think he is a good player but because he is a development prospect and frankly we don’t have anyone else so have to do the best we can with what we have.
But tonight showed just how far off he is - look: he joins a long list of much better players been made to look average by Buddy but watching him - we were screaming at him to stop sitting behind buddy in one spot. Buddy just pushed him in the chest and run off to take easy marks - was actually lucky Swans ignored him because he got free easily. Another example is trying to keep the ball in with Swans players all around him. He looked uncertain and panicked constantly rather than just going hard and doing the defensive traits.
All the other defenders were chasing too so no one was coming back across the lane to cut him off.
The Swans didn’t bring the ball in neatly at all - they just rushed it in fast and every time they did they looked like they were going to score. Incredible how much we missed cool heads.
We don’t have anyone trying to mark the ball in defence other than Ed - they have no confidence. On at least a half a dozen occasions a clear mark should have been taken but a weak punch attempt gave the ball back to the Swans.
Our top intercept markers are all out: Duryea (injured), Crozier (?? Should be in) , Keath (clearly injured but what choice do we have - only option is Cordy who is playing poorly in the twos) and Supposedly TOB (is he injured? Hasn’t played the role anyway).
So if you aren’t holding a good zone and you can’t take intercept panels and you are going to be second to the ball playing behind, defence control and decision making is poor and up the ground no tackle pressure - the opposition will 100% bomb it in and win the result.
We are hanging on with players who are clearly injured in the hope we can scrape in. We have been here before and it has worked. If we could win a good group of these games then our players will come back into the side and form and we give it a shake. The risk is the players can’t do it. I understand the choices are limited - it was worth a try - let’s be honest - we are playing Naughton who can hardly walk because without Bruce we would only have Schache and JUH and be worse off. But it didn’t work. Same with Keath and Bont - all three looked cooked but are so incredibly important. Coach backed them in but bridge too far.
Statistically- if we win all games we can still scrape in. Bevo tried some new (I think poor) things to shake it up but they didn’t work.
Problem is - I am unhappy with the coaches decisions but I can’t come up with anything better other than changing the attitude and going to full tackle harass pressure messy rush it etc
Yes - I am the often delusional captain positive but starting with the positives:
1. Ed really tried and was the only one who looked genuinely pissed off and want to get physical contact. When the hard stuff was on he lifted.
2. Trelor played in the wrong position - not as bad as the incredible decision to play Hannan above Crozier but not far off. But what Trelor did is have it everything and pushed hard - he also seemed to take leadership in the defence - calling them all in a letting them have it a few times. I don’t know what disposals he had but just have been over 30 from HBF. Effectively tried to play Caleb role and was one of our best.
3. West has it. Was not his best game but better than most more experienced players and when he moved into the guts was able to finally slow them down a bit.
4. Good to see García back - did some good things. Bedendo also did some. Good things but still looked a bit off - good future.
5. Schache worked his gut out and could have easily kicked three. He still hesitated too much but did not drop off into the distance and as the game went on tried to get into the game more. Naughty can hardly run - it is ridiculous- but when he was being managed Schache stood up.
I am searching for more positives but hard to find them.
“Areas for improvement”:
Defence is about system - particularly when you don’t have stars. We were sitting higher than normal and had a really good look at how they set up.
It was horrible - no system. It almost looked like they were playing old school man on man but constantly from behind. No intercepts and no clear pathway out - just boundary hugging panic kicks.
Hannan instead of Crozier - is a high risk move that failed. What has happened to Crozier - he had a bad first game back last week - wasn’t alone in that though against a top team but he is a star defender and has been killing it in defence in the twos. I would back him in and can’t understand his poor treatment.
Williams has fallen off a cliff - if he is trying to remove bad parts of his game - he has lost all the good ones. Slow and avoiding contact.
The most obvious thing at the game was attitude- Swans came hunting - first to the ball, really focussed on tackling - they were positive and giving each other energy from the first bounce. They were ok knocking the ball forward because they backed themselves.
They always looked like they had one extra player at the contest and were happy to take a forward out to beat us in numbers. We didn’t even up though the tactic was obvious from the first few minutes.
Both McCartins had field days taking no pressure intercepts by looking themselves short on the flanks and relying on pressure up the ground to force a bomb to the flank. Because we had no run and no system to drop back and precision kick forward - our usual system Dale, Daniel and previously Williams. This worked for the Swans and we didn’t react - kept doing the same thing and expecting a different outcome….
Gards Gards Gards - I have backed him not because I think he is a good player but because he is a development prospect and frankly we don’t have anyone else so have to do the best we can with what we have.
But tonight showed just how far off he is - look: he joins a long list of much better players been made to look average by Buddy but watching him - we were screaming at him to stop sitting behind buddy in one spot. Buddy just pushed him in the chest and run off to take easy marks - was actually lucky Swans ignored him because he got free easily. Another example is trying to keep the ball in with Swans players all around him. He looked uncertain and panicked constantly rather than just going hard and doing the defensive traits.
All the other defenders were chasing too so no one was coming back across the lane to cut him off.
The Swans didn’t bring the ball in neatly at all - they just rushed it in fast and every time they did they looked like they were going to score. Incredible how much we missed cool heads.
We don’t have anyone trying to mark the ball in defence other than Ed - they have no confidence. On at least a half a dozen occasions a clear mark should have been taken but a weak punch attempt gave the ball back to the Swans.
Our top intercept markers are all out: Duryea (injured), Crozier (?? Should be in) , Keath (clearly injured but what choice do we have - only option is Cordy who is playing poorly in the twos) and Supposedly TOB (is he injured? Hasn’t played the role anyway).
So if you aren’t holding a good zone and you can’t take intercept panels and you are going to be second to the ball playing behind, defence control and decision making is poor and up the ground no tackle pressure - the opposition will 100% bomb it in and win the result.
We are hanging on with players who are clearly injured in the hope we can scrape in. We have been here before and it has worked. If we could win a good group of these games then our players will come back into the side and form and we give it a shake. The risk is the players can’t do it. I understand the choices are limited - it was worth a try - let’s be honest - we are playing Naughton who can hardly walk because without Bruce we would only have Schache and JUH and be worse off. But it didn’t work. Same with Keath and Bont - all three looked cooked but are so incredibly important. Coach backed them in but bridge too far.
Statistically- if we win all games we can still scrape in. Bevo tried some new (I think poor) things to shake it up but they didn’t work.
Problem is - I am unhappy with the coaches decisions but I can’t come up with anything better other than changing the attitude and going to full tackle harass pressure messy rush it etc
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Droop St Syndrome.The wife just tapped me on the shoulder this morning but I'm too depressed from last night.... thats how bad things have got after that performance!
Mojos like our defensive efforts! I've been Bevoed!
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Agree. He's probably been given an opportunity earlier than expected due to us having a dearth of wing options but the signs are there that his development is definitely tracking upwards. Could be a permanent fixture in 2023.
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Very good summary/observations from someone actually at the game.
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