Unofficial Preview Discussion, Changes? Round 22 v Cats @ Gabba.

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3KZ is Football

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Hmm, just felt like he had a shocker of a game where nothing went right. He did make that one good pass which lead to a goal. Honestly, 13 touches at 52% and zero goals is uninspiring. His 14 pressure acts mostly came from corralling which are pretty ineffective unless translated to tackles.
He only had 2 tackles in a team that prides itself on physical aggression and once again, was our lowest ranked player. Fagan needs to make his mind up. Playing Rayner against Geelong and then Richmond sets Rayner up to face his biggest consecutive challenges in his young career. I hope he passes this test with flying colours, but if not, we would be very foolish to carry an out of form player into the finals in the hope he might come good. The fact that we are likely to face either Richmond, Geelong or both again in the Finals makes it even more important that Fagan gets this one right. Keays has been in good form this year and did absolutely nothing wrong when he last played senior footy for us. As a young man with room to improve he deserves a chance too. Mathieson is another player who has experience and is in form.
 

James North

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Rayner impacted a hell of a lot of contests last night - there's no way I'd be dropping him regardless of how many other stats he's not killing it on.

We're equal top of the ladder and he's part of the machine.

I also feel like he's a big game player and his ceiling on any given day is way higher than any of the suggested replacements - being a good player in a team that's undefeated in a league several levels lower doesn't really mean much.

Team unity first with this group - maybe he enables other players to use certain structures/methods that we've not privy to.

I hope he passes this test with flying colours, but if not, we would be very foolish to carry an out of form player into the finals in the hope he might come good.
I can't understand how anyone would think that something this coaching group does would be 'foolish'.

We've won more games than we did in 2003 already.
 

Tom14

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We'll go unchanged barring any injuries. That's our best 22 for this year in our coach's view. Back them in, 8 in a row - they know what they're doing.
Well said. This is the lineup the coaching group wants to take into the finals, and he's given a few players a couple of weeks to get themselves into form. Bailey and Adams played very well yesterday and Rayner has had a good month.

People have weird expectations about what a half-forward's job is - Rayner didn't have his best game yesterday but 13 touches is not exactly out of the ordinary for a lot of small forwards these days.
 

T Rick

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It’ll be interesting to see what Fagan does with Rayner. In the easiest game of the year, I thought he put up one of his worst performances of his young career. Bit of a dangerous move putting him out there V a powerful Cats midfield.

Who’d come in though? That’s the issue. Keays?
I just don't get this Rayner stuff. The kid is playing a role and doing a great job...we have won 8 games on the trot with him doing his job and we are an excellent chance for a top 4 finish to the minor round - time to embrace what this young boy brings to our club and team.
 

CarterS

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3KZ is Football

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Rayner impacted a hell of a lot of contests last night - there's no way I'd be dropping him regardless of how many other stats he's not killing it on.

We're equal top of the ladder and he's part of the machine.

I also feel like he's a big game player and his ceiling on any given day is way higher than any of the suggested replacements - being a good player in a team that's undefeated in a league several levels lower doesn't really mean much.

Team unity first with this group - maybe he enables other players to use certain structures/methods that we've not privy to.



I can't understand how anyone would think that something this coaching group does would be 'foolish'.

We've won more games than we did in 2003 already.
To be clear, I have said we should go #unchanged into the Geelong game. I haven’t said we should drop Rayner for that game. I can’t make that any clearer.

I thought Fagan’s presser was interesting and spot on when he said that we will learn a lot “good and bad” from the Geelong and Richmond games. My point was that if Rayner has poor games against Geelong and Richmond it would be foolish to take an out of form player into the finals, particularly as we will most likely be playing Geelong and Richmond again.

Nothing about the club and how they have gone this year etc etc etc.

When Fagan talks about what we will learn, “good and bad” the “bad” part has to cover what we will learn about individual players and also aspects of our game plan against two of the top flight teams in the competition.

Just remember, none of this has happened yet and we are all hoping that Rayner plays really well over the next two weeks and come finals he is selected on form and not with our “fingers crossed” hoping he can produce something in the cauldron of finals football. Given that we have experienced players who are in good form in the reserves, that sort of gamble would be foolish if it didn’t pay off. We don’t want to have a “Neon Leon” situation at Brisbane come September.

I’ll say it one last time.

1. We should go in #unchanged next week and hopefully #unchanged against Richmond.
2. We all want Rayner to have an absolute “blinder” against Geelong and back that up against Richmond. That said, we would all probably settle for the best of his form this year over the next fortnight.
 

Dylan12

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To be clear, I have said we should go #unchanged into the Geelong game. I haven’t said we should drop Rayner for that game. I can’t make that any clearer.

I thought Fagan’s presser was interesting and spot on when he said that we will learn a lot “good and bad” from the Geelong and Richmond games. My point was that if Rayner has poor games against Geelong and Richmond it would be foolish to take an out of form player into the finals, particularly as we will most likely be playing Geelong and Richmond again.

Nothing about the club and how they have gone this year etc etc etc.

When Fagan talks about what we will learn, “good and bad” the “bad” part has to cover what we will learn about individual players and also aspects of our game plan against two of the top flight teams in the competition.

Just remember, none of this has happened yet and we are all hoping that Rayner plays really well over the next two weeks and come finals he is selected on form and not with our “fingers crossed” hoping he can produce something in the cauldron of finals football. Given that we have experienced players who are in good form in the reserves, that sort of gamble would be foolish if it didn’t pay off. We don’t want to have a “Neon Leon” situation at Brisbane come September.

I’ll say it one last time.

1. We should go in #unchanged next week and hopefully #unchanged against Richmond.
2. We all want Rayner to have an absolute “blinder” against Geelong and back that up against Richmond. That said, we would all probably settle for the best of his form this year over the next fortnight.
Mate, I can’t believe how much you hate Rayner.;)
 

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LongLion

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I just don't get this Rayner stuff. The kid is playing a role and doing a great job...we have won 8 games on the trot with him doing his job and we are an excellent chance for a top 4 finish to the minor round - time to embrace what this young boy brings to our club and team.
It's only coming from one quarter who although he claims he wants him to succeed, secretly would prefer his constant bleating to come true so he can say 'I told you so"
 

3KZ is Football

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It's only coming from one quarter who although he claims he wants him to succeed, secretly would prefer his constant bleating to come true so he can say 'I told you so"
If I am “one quarter” I promise you you are incorrect. As a paid up member, I want what is best for the club and, like all of us, I want us to win the Premiership this year! Personally I would love to see Cam running around the boundary after the Grand Final passing the Cup around with his mates!
 

martinson

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Cam certainly looks a lot better physically than he did at the start of the year . He's basically still learning ,people talking about him tearing a game apart and being made for finals football aren't currently in any reality that I see before my eyes. But nor would we expect him to be at his age.

He's only one player ,I have my own view which is best kept private except to say that the club clearly believes that he's currently in our best 22 and that's not changing. His added fitness has allowed him to get to and impact more contests than he was early in the year . He's often got more time than he thinks he has and he'll realise that as he gets more clean possession of the ball.

By my calculations we will likely need to win our last two to get a home final. Lose next week and we're under the gun as far as that goes. The one team I don't want to play in the finals if they make it is the Dogs
 

DERRINALPHIL

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The Rayner question is quite simple. Answer three questions.

Are we getting close to a possible premiership attempt where every possible advantage needs to be grasped?

Who is our most under preforming player most weeks?

Do we have players playing well in the Two's who could replace him?
 

martinson

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The Rayner question is quite simple. Answer three questions.

Are we getting close to a possible premiership attempt where every possible advantage needs to be grasped?

Who is our most under preforming player most weeks?

Do we have players playing well in the Two's who could replace him?
I think the issue is a lot of people don't accept that he's under performing.

I'm so giddy reading conflicting viewpoints that I keep looking for evidence that he's performing well every game and really wonder if I'm not seeing what I think I'm seeing.

He looks good when he does do something and gets a clean possession. Maybe he's doing things well that the Coaching group are asking that he bring to the team ,things that a normal footy follower just doesn't understand. Happy to be educated on it.

At this point to me he looks like he's about to do something whereas earlier in the year I couldn't say that
 

jason pm

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The Rayner question is quite simple. Answer three questions.

Are we getting close to a possible premiership attempt where every possible advantage needs to be grasped?

Who is our most under preforming player most weeks?

Do we have players playing well in the Two's who could replace him?
1- Yes.
2- I can't think of a player who has under performed regularly in recent weeks.
3- No.

A- Fagan & co are doing what they deem to be needed IMO.
B- IMO Rayner has been good recently, at this moment in his development combined with the position he is playing he is not going to be a high possession player, he is an impact player and does that job well. I can't wait for him to put one of those vicious bumps on Selwood, Danger or Gablett come Saturday afternoon, just imagine how crowd and team lifting that will be.
 

3KZ is Football

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The Rayner question is quite simple. Answer three questions.

Are we getting close to a possible premiership attempt where every possible advantage needs to be grasped?

Who is our most under preforming player most weeks?

Do we have players playing well in the Two's who could replace him?
Well said Phil. Clearly not about ‘hating’ anyone.
 

martinson

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But looking at the situation overall I'd say there's no chance of the club not getting finals footy into Cam now that the opportunity is here . They've stuck this far, he's shown some signs of improvement the last few games . At least he's going to be hard in the contest , loved that bump in the Dogs game .
 

martinson

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I think we match up well on the Cats . They seemed to employ a similar game style to us last night especially defence wise and it will be up to our forwards to run them around a bit as far as possible.

Percentage is really tight these days because of the low scoring . Big wins are like gold percentage wise. We need to win our next two to get a home final. It's a big task coming off 8 in a row but not impossible.
 
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