Discussion on SEN: Pokie revenue

Peck

Todd Marshall fan
Joined
Jul 30, 2009
Posts
10,287
Likes
6,756
Location
Melbourne, VIC
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Other Teams
Left is Best
#26
Yeah I don't like pokies at all.

I think *most* of the revenue is from casual players, but problem gamblers make up a hell of a lot. Its something like 15% are problem gamblers and that 15% accounts for 40% of the revenue. I read figures like that quite a while ago and they were from NZ so they probably aren't correct especially as my memory is hazy.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Joined
Nov 16, 2004
Posts
53,167
Likes
67,425
Location
SE Oz
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Other Teams
The Mighty Blacks
#27
Joined
Nov 16, 2004
Posts
53,167
Likes
67,425
Location
SE Oz
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Other Teams
The Mighty Blacks
#28
This
Annual Report 2011-2012 Gaming Machines Act 1992
Liquor and Gambling Commissioner

Consumer and Business Services

Makes for interesting reading to see where gaming took place in SA. Also if you read the B5 booklet that members get with the PAFC's annual report which is for The Port Club - Port Adelaide Football and Community Club Inc Annual Report - you will see where PAFC sits in gaming set up in SA.

The Port Club has 40 pokie machines which the club owns outright and could sell if need be. The Prince is a leasehold ie the club doesn't own the land and building freehold, just the lease giving it the right to sell booze. The 33 pokies in the pub are also leased by the club from the landlord. Gaming Tax is lower for Non-Profit Business ie Clubs & Community Hotels than for Other than Non-Profit Businesses
ie Hotels. See page 28 of the report. Not sure what rate of tax is applied to the pokies at The Prince.

For future reference, as 2012-13 annual report has been issued for public consumption yet, all Gaming Machine Act Annual reports are at
http://www.cbs.sa.gov.au/wcm/about/annual-report/
 

ploppy

Club Legend
Joined
Sep 29, 2008
Posts
2,311
Likes
1,718
Location
adelaide
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
#29
so how much net profit do we make on our pokies? if the vics are making 200k per machine they are way ahead of us..if we could get 100k per machine that 4mill would be real handy.
 
Joined
Nov 16, 2004
Posts
53,167
Likes
67,425
Location
SE Oz
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Other Teams
The Mighty Blacks
#30
so how much net profit do we make on our pokies? if the vics are making 200k per machine they are way ahead of us..if we could get 100k per machine that 4mill would be real handy.

I don't know where you got those figures from because if you look at the figures on the previous page they are bring in revenue of $70k to $120k per machine for the big 5 clubs, but that is gaming revenue + food and beverage revenue ie total social club revenues. That story was misleading that it made it looked like all net gaming revenue when in fact total social venues revenue. There has been a discussion on the Footy Industry board thread.

COLLINGWOOD
GRR: $22.1m Machines: 186
Coach and Horses, Ringwood (80) The Club, Caroline Springs (66) Diamond Creek Tavern (40)

From Collingwood's 2013 annual report

3 Revenue and other income
Social club and gaming.......... $ 22,176,163

From P&L
Social club / gaming expenses ($16,170,318)

So from all food and beverage and gaming revenue collingwood generated a $6mil profit, from 186 machines or $32.3k of net profit per machine from gaming + food and beverage.

But how much of the following expenses truly relate to gaming and social expenses and should come off that $6mil profit?- your guess is as good as mine.

These items were seperately reported in the profit and loss
Administration expenses................... (5,584,297)
Depreciation and amortisation expense (2,380,060) at least $622k amortisation of gaming entitlements
Operating lease rental expenses 8 & 9 (3,705,082)
 
Joined
Nov 16, 2004
Posts
53,167
Likes
67,425
Location
SE Oz
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Other Teams
The Mighty Blacks
#31
The clubs will have to pay gaming tax based on net gaming revenue so they will have to seperate the 2.

When Port issues its financials to members we also get a small B5 booklet for The Port Club ie Port Adelaide Football and Community Club Inc. It has been going for around 50 years. When Port merged with The Magpies to form One Club again, The Prince Hotel lease and pokies that were run by the Magpies were also merged. The 2 venues and 2 lots of pokie revenue are shown in the group financials, we members never see The Prince's results.

But for the Port Club in 2012 total revenue was $4.82mil and Net Gaming Revenue was $2.51mil for 40 machines. The accounts don't say how much gaming tax was paid, but based on the 2011-12 tax rates which i don't think have changed they would have paid approx $771k in gaming tax to the SA government on the NGR of $2.51mil.

So that is an after gaming tax but before depreciation and other expenses profit of $1.78mil for 40 machines. The Port Club as a separate legal entity made $52k profit but when you eliminate transactions to the club ie PAFC Ltd and rents paid and services provided the profit is close to $200k.
 
Joined
Nov 16, 2004
Posts
53,167
Likes
67,425
Location
SE Oz
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Other Teams
The Mighty Blacks
#33
Not keen on pokies whatsoever. We're a better club than that. We don't need to resort to it.

Unfortunately we do. We are several net million dollars away from break even. pokies of the big 5 clubs in Victoria are allowing them to spend $2mil or more on their footy department than we do.
 
Joined
Nov 16, 2004
Posts
53,167
Likes
67,425
Location
SE Oz
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Other Teams
The Mighty Blacks
#35
Well then let them spend more than us. The impact that installing pokies would have on
Port Adelaide (both the place and the club) isn't worth winning a few football games.

We've had 40 machines at the Port club since the 1990's and another 33 at The Prince since the early 2000's. So getting rid of our 73 machines means we will be a long way back.

Now if you say don't get any more, and move the 40 out of the Port Club to somewhere else, like a northern venue as Pickard was going to help us do, before Wilkie got all that federal pokies legislation thru the parliament - not all he wanted - then yeah I agree with that.
 

Killer Power

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Sep 20, 2007
Posts
7,235
Likes
10,366
Location
Dungeon
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
#36
Studies have shown that pokies do the best in the poorest areas where the most vulnerable are. Some gamblers loose $1,500 an hour and one in 6 people who play the pokies have a serious problem.
From Newcastle Herald 5/10/13
A personal story.

My ex-wife and i were together 6 years and were living a comfortable life in Henley. When she fell pregnant with our first child we agreed she should stop working. She was soon getting bored though and since i trusted her completely and she was very capable we decided she should look after our finances, freeing me up to concentrate on my work.

We had a number of investments (shares / property / cash) running through a series of accounts. One day I had a call from my bank to say a mortgage payment had not gone through. I let my wife know that night but could see straight away guilt and she got angry when i pressed the issue. This shook me as i trusted her but she wasn't talking so i started doing some digging around. Through the accounts i found relatively small amounts consistently being siphoned to an account i was unaware of (not linked to online banking etc). I managed to get access to records of this account via the bank and the transaction history was completely full of withdrawals (through a separate card) all made in pubs and the casino.

I approached her with this and she became extremely angry, denying she had an issue. This went back and forth over many months with her finding ways to access money and me subsequently finding out. As you would imagine it was taking a huge toll on our relationship and I finally gave an ultimatum that she seek help. She genuinely tried through a very reputable program run via Flinders but her addiction was too strong / willpower too weak. Three years ago it finally broke our family up.

The financial cost? I stopped counting at $100k, i would estimate it could be as high as $150k. I am fortunate in that it hasn't totally ruined me financially, although it certainly set me back a long way. The personal cost? A lot more. In my opinion these machines are evil, i will never put a cent in one again. They don't only effect those from low socio - economic backgrounds, in fact they are rather indiscriminate. Individuals become addicted to playing them and you are kidding yourself if you think it is any less devastating than other types of addictions (drugs / booze). It is a very hidden problem though. Unlike those other addictions it may not be obvious that a person has a problem at all. Our community was a better one prior to them being introduced in 1995. And don't even get me started on what has happened to live music in this city since they arrived!
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

portfan36

Club Legend
Joined
Nov 16, 2007
Posts
1,100
Likes
328
Location
Glenelg
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Other Teams
Maggies
#38
A personal story.

My ex-wife and i were together 6 years and were living a comfortable life in Henley. When she fell pregnant with our first child we agreed she should stop working. She was soon getting bored though and since i trusted her completely and she was very capable we decided she should look after our finances, freeing me up to concentrate on my work.

We had a number of investments (shares / property / cash) running through a series of accounts. One day I had a call from my bank to say a mortgage payment had not gone through. I let my wife know that night but could see straight away guilt and she got angry when i pressed the issue. This shook me as i trusted her but she wasn't talking so i started doing some digging around. Through the accounts i found relatively small amounts consistently being siphoned to an account i was unaware of (not linked to online banking etc). I managed to get access to records of this account via the bank and the transaction history was completely full of withdrawals (through a separate card) all made in pubs and the casino.

I approached her with this and she became extremely angry, denying she had an issue. This went back and forth over many months with her finding ways to access money and me subsequently finding out. As you would imagine it was taking a huge toll on our relationship and I finally gave an ultimatum that she seek help. She genuinely tried through a very reputable program run via Flinders but her addiction was too strong / willpower too weak. Three years ago it finally broke our family up.

The financial cost? I stopped counting at $100k, i would estimate it could be as high as $150k. I am fortunate in that it hasn't totally ruined me financially, although it certainly set me back a long way. The personal cost? A lot more. In my opinion these machines are evil, i will never put a cent in one again. They don't only effect those from low socio - economic backgrounds, in fact they are rather indiscriminate. Individuals become addicted to playing them and you are kidding yourself if you think it is any less devastating than other types of addictions (drugs / booze). It is a very hidden problem though. Unlike those other addictions it may not be obvious that a person has a problem at all. Our community was a better one prior to them being introduced in 1995. And don't even get me started on what has happened to live music in this city since they arrived!
Well said KP and sorry to hear about the situation you were in. It certainly gives some perspective to those in support of pokies for creating revenue. Unfortunately, from Ports perspective, the decision to remove poker machines can only be done through government legislation (my opinion). Removing them through personal choice will only leave them further behind the 8 ball.

One thing I have noticed though is that pokie rooms are no longer full to the brim with people like they used to be. Maybe people have simply come to the realisation you can't win through constantly playing them. Personally I think the numbers went down when they brought in anti- smoking legislation inside venues. With any luck the government can go one step further and also make it illegal to drink alcohol whilst playing the pokies, just one mre step to make them increasingly more unappealing
 

Dobie G

Club Legend
Joined
Aug 25, 2013
Posts
1,339
Likes
869
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
#39
A personal story.

My ex-wife and i were together 6 years and were living a comfortable life in Henley. When she fell pregnant with our first child we agreed she should stop working. She was soon getting bored though and since i trusted her completely and she was very capable we decided she should look after our finances, freeing me up to concentrate on my work.

We had a number of investments (shares / property / cash) running through a series of accounts. One day I had a call from my bank to say a mortgage payment had not gone through. I let my wife know that night but could see straight away guilt and she got angry when i pressed the issue. This shook me as i trusted her but she wasn't talking so i started doing some digging around. Through the accounts i found relatively small amounts consistently being siphoned to an account i was unaware of (not linked to online banking etc). I managed to get access to records of this account via the bank and the transaction history was completely full of withdrawals (through a separate card) all made in pubs and the casino.

I approached her with this and she became extremely angry, denying she had an issue. This went back and forth over many months with her finding ways to access money and me subsequently finding out. As you would imagine it was taking a huge toll on our relationship and I finally gave an ultimatum that she seek help. She genuinely tried through a very reputable program run via Flinders but her addiction was too strong / willpower too weak. Three years ago it finally broke our family up.

The financial cost? I stopped counting at $100k, i would estimate it could be as high as $150k. I am fortunate in that it hasn't totally ruined me financially, although it certainly set me back a long way. The personal cost? A lot more. In my opinion these machines are evil, i will never put a cent in one again. They don't only effect those from low socio - economic backgrounds, in fact they are rather indiscriminate. Individuals become addicted to playing them and you are kidding yourself if you think it is any less devastating than other types of addictions (drugs / booze). It is a very hidden problem though. Unlike those other addictions it may not be obvious that a person has a problem at all. Our community was a better one prior to them being introduced in 1995. And don't even get me started on what has happened to live music in this city since they arrived!


KP, very sorry you had to go through that, it must have been devastating, the sinister way the pokies or casinos are programed to win and suck people dry, worse than leeches. Unfortunately some people are hardwired to ignore common sense and the Government’s no better as it fails to protect the more vulnerable in society; they succumb to the easy lure of millions of dollars and ignore any social cost. It stinks.
 

Natman

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Oct 5, 2004
Posts
7,449
Likes
1,380
Location
Grange
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Other Teams
No others are worthy
#40
We've had 40 machines at the Port club since the 1990's and another 33 at The Prince since the early 2000's. So getting rid of our 73 machines means we will be a long way back.

Now if you say don't get any more, and move the 40 out of the Port Club to somewhere else, like a northern venue as Pickard was going to help us do, before Wilkie got all that federal pokies legislation thru the parliament - not all he wanted - then yeah I agree with that.
I don't think that there are 40 machines in the Port Club now. When I was there last, 5 or 6 machines were gone from one wall. Whether that is due to being replaced or sold etc, I don't know.
 
Joined
Nov 16, 2004
Posts
53,167
Likes
67,425
Location
SE Oz
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Other Teams
The Mighty Blacks
#41
A personal story.

......

Sorry to hear your story mate. It sounds like a long and painful one.

I understand the addiction to tobacco, alcohol and drugs - legal and illegal - its chemistry.

I sort of understand the addiction to punting, horse racing, sports, playing cards the casino etc.

But I have never understood the addiction to slot machines. I have no idea what the answer to that addiction is.
 

Killer Power

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Sep 20, 2007
Posts
7,235
Likes
10,366
Location
Dungeon
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
#42
Sorry to hear your story mate. It sounds like a long and painful one.

I understand the addiction to tobacco, alcohol and drugs - legal and illegal - its chemistry.

I sort of understand the addiction to punting, horse racing, sports, playing cards the casino etc.

But I have never understood the addiction to slot machines. I have no idea what the answer to that addiction is.
I actually think they are all one and the same REH. People with addictive personalities will generally gravitate to one of these vices. Her father is an alcoholic and i don't think its a stretch to think hers and her fathers are somehow related (genetic predisposition?). Cures? I think most addicts have to hit rock bottom before thay climb out. They are never cured as such though as they are hardwired that way and can relapse.

Thanks for the thoughts guys but it has been 3 years and feels like a lifetime ago now. Im in a good place now with plenty of access to my daughter. Couldn't be happier!
 
Joined
Mar 18, 2013
Posts
2,750
Likes
2,515
Location
Hobart, Tasmania
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Other Teams
Glenorchy Magpies
#43
A personal story.

My ex-wife and i were together 6 years and were living a comfortable life in Henley. When she fell pregnant with our first child we agreed she should stop working. She was soon getting bored though and since i trusted her completely and she was very capable we decided she should look after our finances, freeing me up to concentrate on my work.

We had a number of investments (shares / property / cash) running through a series of accounts. One day I had a call from my bank to say a mortgage payment had not gone through. I let my wife know that night but could see straight away guilt and she got angry when i pressed the issue. This shook me as i trusted her but she wasn't talking so i started doing some digging around. Through the accounts i found relatively small amounts consistently being siphoned to an account i was unaware of (not linked to online banking etc). I managed to get access to records of this account via the bank and the transaction history was completely full of withdrawals (through a separate card) all made in pubs and the casino.

I approached her with this and she became extremely angry, denying she had an issue. This went back and forth over many months with her finding ways to access money and me subsequently finding out. As you would imagine it was taking a huge toll on our relationship and I finally gave an ultimatum that she seek help. She genuinely tried through a very reputable program run via Flinders but her addiction was too strong / willpower too weak. Three years ago it finally broke our family up.

The financial cost? I stopped counting at $100k, i would estimate it could be as high as $150k. I am fortunate in that it hasn't totally ruined me financially, although it certainly set me back a long way. The personal cost? A lot more. In my opinion these machines are evil, i will never put a cent in one again. They don't only effect those from low socio - economic backgrounds, in fact they are rather indiscriminate. Individuals become addicted to playing them and you are kidding yourself if you think it is any less devastating than other types of addictions (drugs / booze). It is a very hidden problem though. Unlike those other addictions it may not be obvious that a person has a problem at all. Our community was a better one prior to them being introduced in 1995. And don't even get me started on what has happened to live music in this city since they arrived!
This is a story that is all too common and I am devastated for you.

Living in the Denison electorate, I have voted for Andrew Wilkie in the last 2 elections and if he can change anything (which I doubt) my vote has been worthwhile.

I understand Pokies are a big part of the PAFC revenues but I find the 'Freedom to end Hunger' sponsorship whilst it still maintains this income stream a little hypocritical.

I hate North Melbourne but admire their stance on Pokies and it proves a club can be profitable without them.
 
Joined
Feb 21, 2002
Posts
55,206
Likes
87,555
Location
Port Adelaide 5015
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Other Teams
Port Adelaide Magpies
Moderator #45
I remember when Russell Crowe and Peter Holmes a Court took over South Sydney and ran a strong campaign for a pokies-free Rabbitohs. I don't think they ever succeeded and Souths even took on sponsorship from Star City Casino in 2011.
 

tribey

5 Wins In-A-Row Certificate Recipients '13/'14/'18
Joined
Mar 9, 2003
Posts
56,093
Likes
119,576
Location
Queen St & Peter Rd
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Other Teams
NUFC, YES.
#46
Well then let them spend more than us. The impact that installing pokies would have on Port Adelaide (both the place and the club) isn't worth winning a few football games.
We've had a total of 60-80 across The Port Club and The Prince for as long as I can remember.

Do we stop selling beer and wine because a percentage of people drink-drive or go home and abuse family members? Do we stop selling Coke, Sprite and FUIC at games because diabetes/obesity is on the rise, especially amongst kids who don't know any better?

With problem anything the troubled minority will always find a way to ruin themselves in the pursuit of the gryphon.
 

Killer Power

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Sep 20, 2007
Posts
7,235
Likes
10,366
Location
Dungeon
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
#47
We've had a total of 60-80 across The Port Club and The Prince for as long as I can remember.

Do we stop selling beer and wine because a percentage of people drink-drive or go home and abuse family members? Do we stop selling Coke, Sprite and FUIC at games because diabetes/obesity is on the rise, especially amongst kids who don't know any better?

With problem anything the troubled minority will always find a way to ruin themselves in the pursuit of the gryphon.
This is a little different in that 20 years ago we didn't have them. What kind of society allows the few (state govt, pub barons) to introduce a vice that damages that society as a whole?
 

Dalphonso

Premiership Player
Joined
Oct 10, 2009
Posts
3,716
Likes
1,855
Location
Alice Springs NT
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Other Teams
Territory Thunder,Waratahs FC
#49
No offence here but alcohol destroys far more Families than poker machines. I am sure there are plenty of alcoholics that spend too much of their money and time at either the Port club or the POW hotel or maybe both?
Perhaps we can call for the club and pub to stop selling grog as a humane issue to save the drunks?
Problem is they will go to another pub or club or takeaway shop to please their addiction.Just as a poker machine addict does.
It is a cop out for people to blame poker machines for their problems such as does an alcoholic blame individual pubs for selling them the stuff.
At the end of the day it comes down to personal choice. No one forces them into the venue and sits them in front of a pokie or forces wine down their throats.
Only one to blame is the individual in question. No one else to blame here Mr Xenephon.
 

Dalphonso

Premiership Player
Joined
Oct 10, 2009
Posts
3,716
Likes
1,855
Location
Alice Springs NT
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Other Teams
Territory Thunder,Waratahs FC
#50
This is a little different in that 20 years ago we didn't have them. What kind of society allows the few (state govt, pub barons) to introduce a vice that damages that society as a whole?
I have no figures in front of me but I am sure horse racing revenue has taken a fair whack since pokies were introduced?
Certain individuals love to gamble on anything.These online gaming companies like bet 365 are certainly growing in stature too. You take away poker machines and horse racing then people will be betting online with all sorts of rubbish like will Tony Abbott wear a blue or red tie Today.
Pubs in Perth have no pokies but the Casino is always pumping.
 
Top Bottom