Discussion on SEN: Pokie revenue

tribey

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NUFC, YES.
Mrs Tribey's dad saw a gent pull $14,000 out of an Indian Dreaming in Goolwa t'other day.

"Yeah but how much had he lost before that?" groaned the throng determined to portray poker machines as jackbooted Nazis in an Auschwitz replete with free soft drink and stale biscuits.
 

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Killer Power

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http://www.news.com.au/national/bre...t-punters-report/story-e6frfku9-1226817974167

A report, published in The Economist, puts Australian gambling losses at about $1144 per resident.
Monash University gambling researcher Dr Charles Livingstone says Australia has the highest concentration of poker machines in the world.
The average Aussie lost about $520 on non-casino poker machines last year, the report by British consultancy firm H2 Gambling Capital said.
 

Dobie G

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$1,144 per resident, total population 22.89m (Jan 2013) = $26,186,160,000

Take away the under 14 making up 19%, gives a population of 18,540,900

$26,186,160,000/18,540,900 = $1,412 per persons aged 14+

That's $22.77 a week, a few lotto &/or Qld property tickets which is usually not problem gambling.

The article Killer quotes, mentions "with pokies, 40 per cent of losses come from problem gamblers, with five to 10 people affected by each problem gambler" and "there are significant political, economical and cultural obstacles to promoting responsible gambling.
"State and territory governments in Australia derive an average 10 per cent or more of their taxation revenue from legalised gambling,'.
 
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Mrs Tribey's dad saw a gent pull $14,000 out of an Indian Dreaming in Goolwa t'other day.

"Yeah but how much had he lost before that?" groaned the throng determined to portray poker machines as jackbooted Nazis in an Auschwitz replete with free soft drink and stale biscuits.
Have a friend who purchased an Indian Dreaming machine i think through ebay (i believe its the US version as it has a slot where they put notes into the machine also i believe its illegal to buy an aussie made poker machine here if you dont have a gaming licence). His machine is free to play as well.

I normally only play the pokies at the club or prince of wales after having a meal there which is like once or twice a month. I look it as a donation back to the club if i lose the $50 to $80 i play with and if i do win any substantial kind of money (over $300) i usually buy something from the megastore.

Last Sunday on the way home from work i decided to stop at the boathouse at Taperoo and spend my usual $50-$80 there and ended up winning the mini jackpot ... which was $1500+ .. I nearly fell off the chair.. biggest win i have ever had.
 
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Got this link from tomorrow's Age from The_Wookie in a thread on the Footy Industry board.

Only 5 clubs profit without pokies
March 25, 2014 - 8:52PM

Only five AFL clubs made a profit in 2013 without the assistance of poker machines, according to figures presented to the clubs by the AFL.
And remarkably, one of the clubs that made a pokies-free profit was North Melbourne, which made a decision to avoid poker machines from its business model, and is among the smallest clubs for revenue.

The five clubs that made a profit without non-football revenue - almost all of which is from poker machine venues - were Collingwood, Richmond, West Coast, Fremantle and North Melbourne. The Kangaroos are the clear outlier from that group of five and, according to the club, made a profit of $1.3 million in 2013 as a result of running a very low-cost operation.

Even Hawthorn, the 2013 premier and one of the game’s most financially robust clubs, had a profit that was assisted by pokie earnings. The Hawks made a healthy profit of $3.1 million in 2013, but they are understood to have earned more than $4 million from their lucrative Waverley Gardens gaming venue, and have plans to earn more from their new Caroline Springs venue.
<snip>

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...hout-pokies-20140325-zqmvj.html#ixzz2wydY8wLe
 

blaargh

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That sucks REH. I seriously can't fathom that essentially the AFL clubs are not viable without the support of the porkies (which are bottom feeding scum in my opinion).

On a side note, I heard Bruce (mathieson?) Carlton porkies benefactor on SEN last week ripping into the club. Made me glad that port have not fully sold our soul to the devil yet.

Bottom line is, the AFL industry should be able to be supported by the fans buying tickets and memberships, and the tv deals - not gamblers who may not even know where their money is going.
 
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The_Wookie put up some tables in the 2013 Club Reporting Season thread on the Footy Industry board.


Freo's info was released after he put up this one. Their revenue was $46.63mil and like WCE they had no pokie revenue because Burswood casino is the only place in WA that is allowed to have pokies.



and another one

 

GranFormaggi

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Freo's info was released after he put up this one. Their revenue was $46.63mil and like WCE they had no pokie revenue because Burswood casino is the only place in WA that is allowed to have pokies.
Additionally, when I lived there in 2008/09, those pokies were not allowed to be "spinning reel" machines. It was deemed that these are mindless games. They were only allowed to be video poker (cards) games as it was felt the individual had a choice on which cards to hold or discard and was therefore involved. These games take longer to play and therefore have the potential to limit losses.

Having seen the impact on pub venues in SA, I believe they provide a much more civilised venue for a drink, watching sports and a reasonable meal at a poker machine subsidised price than they used to. It would be nice if that was all funded from the casual gambler without addiction problems and it would be nice if pubs and clubs weren't dependent on the revenue. In both cases we know that's not true.

But things move on, some things improve, some things don't. I remember in the early 80's my dad was on my Primary School council and would buy a couple of dozen hot chooks for Thursday night raffles at the Holdfast Hotel to raise money for school sports. Rough as guts, second hand smoke, binge drinking and drink driving....hardly a place for a kid. My dad took my 2 sisters and I every week and so long as we could have the odd 20c piece for a game of pool and we got chicken and chips on the way home, we loved it!
 
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In that thread on the Footy Industry board - someone linked an article that said per captia WA people are the biggest spenders on lottery tickets and it was a decent gap to #2 in the world. They make up for the no pokies I guess.
 

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GranFormaggi

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In that thread on the Footy Industry board - someone linked an article that said per captia WA people are the biggest spenders on lottery tickets and it was a decent gap to #2 in the world. They make up for the no pokies I guess.
Everyone has a vice :)

It's interesting, I felt far more threatened in pubs in WA than I do here. I lived in very trendy Mount Hawthorn / Leederville....but they go to drink! It's also a very masculine and "let off steam" type of place with so many FIFO workers with plenty of cash. I also wonder how much they spend on ice per capita?
 
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Everyone has a vice :)

It's interesting, I felt far more threatened in pubs in WA than I do here. I lived in very trendy Mount Hawthorn / Leederville....but they go to drink! It's also a very masculine and "let off steam" type of place with so many FIFO workers with plenty of cash. I also wonder how much they spend on ice per capita?
So you have experienced the Perth cashed up bogan that we read about here in the east.
 

GranFormaggi

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So you have experienced the Perth cashed up bogan that we read about here in the east.
Yep....it's a very beautiful place with great weather and an outdoors lifestyle but not without some social problems unique to the mining boom. One story had it that a bloke had bought up a pub near Perth airport and had installed topless bar staff, specifically to catch the trade just returned from up north. But when police, nurses & other essential services workers are priced out of property and a schnitzel at your local is $40 bucks, somethings a bit amiss. I moved to London and relished how inexpensive it was :)
 

Killer Power

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If you missed it this revealing documentary just aired on ABC. Insiders spell out exactly how poker machines are designed to trigger neural responses and use a multiplier effect to guarantee higher losses the longer a person plays. Just sad.

Unable to embed the video here but it is available via iview. Well worth a watch.

Watching Ka-Ching! Pokie Nation in iview
http://iview.abc.net.au/programs/ka-ching-pokie-nation/DO1406H001S00
 
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Whilst we have discussed pokies in many threads this is the most common one used between November 2007 and October 2015.

The Age today says the big 5 clubs re pokie holdings have been granted 20 year licence extensions. Eddie has steered Collingwood to get rid of their pokies over a few years and announced a sale in June that would take a few months to complete. But so have 3 other clubs joining North who made a decision back in 2007 to get rid opf its pokies.

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/collingwood-cashes-out-of-pokies-20180717-p4zrxy.html
Collingwood have confirmed they are leaving the gaming industry, having agreed to sell their 156 poker machines to the Melbourne Racing Club. As flagged exclusively by Fairfax Media in February, the Pies will sell the licence for their two venues, Ringwood’s The Coach and Horses and The Club in Caroline Springs, with settlement expected to take place in October. Collingwood had already ceased operation of their Magpie Millions lottery, meaning the club will move away from gaming completely. “This is a prudent commercial decision, one that will strengthen the Collingwood balance sheet significantly,” club president Eddie McGuire said. “The forensic review of the entire Collingwood operation last year, and the ‘Forever’ blueprint which came out of it, gave us greater clarity and a renewed sense of purpose but also identified numerous opportunities.
https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/collingwood-cashes-out-of-pokies-20180717-p4zrxy.html

That story also said
The Magpies will join North Melbourne as pokie-free Victorian clubs. Melbourne have also announced they will leave gaming, selling their Leighoak venue and opting not to renew their licence at the Bentleigh Club when it expires in 2022. Geelong are another Victorian club who are set to follow. Essendon, however, are in discussions to extend their gaming presence in Melton, as Fairfax Media revealed last week.
But today's story said
https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl...censes-to-operate-pokies-20181029-p50cl8.html
Five Victorian AFL clubs are set to continue taking millions of dollars from pokies after the state government announced the recipients of new 20-year licenses for gaming machines, despite four rival Victorian clubs recently committing to sell their pokies.

Carlton, Hawthorn, Essendon, Richmond and St Kilda have been handed 20 year licenses - beginning in 2022 and running to 2042 - to continue operating pokies at venues around Melbourne following an application process that began in October 2017.

Collingwood, Geelong, Melbourne and the Western Bulldogs will sell their pokies and with that surrender millions in guaranteed yearly revenue, while North Melbourne have long been pokies-free.

AFL clubs keeping pokies were handed licences to operate the same amount of machines they currently own with Carlton (290 machines) the most followed by Essendon (190), Hawthorn (165), Richmond (97) and St Kilda (83). Hawthorn generated the most revenue from pokies in the last financial year ($24.3 million) followed by Carlton ($18.4 million), Essendon ($11.6 million), Richmond ($5.3 million) and St Kilda ($2.09 million).

It's understood the clubs have told the AFL they'd like to sell their pokies, but don't have viable ways to replace the revenue. The new 20 year licenses can be sold at any time. Richmond are believed to have approached the AFL to discuss how the league could subsidise the pokies exits. The AFL, led by chairman Richard Goyder, wants to be pokies-free.

Hawthorn said they take responsibilities around gambling “very seriously” and that they signed the Victorian Responsible Gambling Foundation charter in 2014. Hawthorn “will seek to identify new non-football business ventures” as part of their “2050 vision”. “The Hawthorn Football Club aims to be financially secure and independent from the AFL, as a result the club is reliant on our non-football investment,” Hawthorn’s statement read. he Hawks said they employ 130 staff at their pokies venues which are "much more than gaming venues".............

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl...censes-to-operate-pokies-20181029-p50cl8.html

Those nervous nellies out there, have to remember China is our alternative to investing in pubs and pokies. China isn't a problem, its being smart enough to capatialise on the opportunities around the game that Mr Gui has underwritten that is the real issue, not that we jump on a plane and have a different bye week to 16 other sides. It has more upside than 200 bloody pokie machines.
 

Doctor Feel

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24 million!

We'd have to have sponsorships and revenue out of China worth millions a year to offset that, assuming there are overheads associated with having the pokies and they don't pocket that 24 mill.

How easy it is to sit back on Pokie revenue, jesus.
 
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24 million!

We'd have to have sponsorships and revenue out of China worth millions a year to offset that, assuming there are overheads associated with having the pokies and they don't pocket that 24 mill.

How easy it is to sit back on Pokie revenue, jesus.
200 pokie machines in SA doesn't produce the profits of 200 pokie machines in Victoria in a similar socio-economic suburb. In SA there are tougher rules about maximum bets - its $2. From those stats guys HPN's September 2016 article looking at clubs' revenue stream and what they look like without pokies and I started a thread on the footy industry board at
https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/the-afl-clubs-and-pokies-thread.1155637/#post-48315212

https://hurlingpeoplenow.wordpress....-a-fairer-model-for-afl-funding-distribution/
....Based on the research we have done, we think that a generous assumption is that 25% of the revenue from pokies are extracted as profit. The rest of that revenue will of course go to maintaining the venues containing the pokies – to operating costs and to subsidised food and drink, and perhaps on other donations (including charitable ones).

Some clubs, such as Port Adelaide, barely make any profit on having poker machines after costs – South Australia does not permit any denomination of notes to be bet in poker machines, while Queensland permits $100 notes to be fed into the machines.

Some clubs, traditionally seen as battlers who are forced to rely on the machines, look like they’d actually be relatively okay without them. The 2015 reported profit of $400k at the Bulldogs becomes a $900k loss. That’s significant, but perhaps not crippling. Most importantly, the AFL could likely compensate for the short term loss with redistributed funds.......
https://hurlingpeoplenow.wordpress....-a-fairer-model-for-afl-funding-distribution/
 
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