Roast Disillusioned

[nurries]

Well at least this draft is only marginally compromised compared to 2010-2011.

I really hope freo go all out to get Jesse hogan in the mini-draft and upgrade our first rounder to increase our odds of drafting mason shaw.
If that happens , we'd have two great young KPF prospects on our list which is something we've never had in our clubs history.
With our other picks in this draft, go hard at ball winning mids.

IMO we've got a really good foundation for quality midfield consisting of fyfe,hill,mora,Neale. Left out sherro and crozier as there not yet proven.

We will probably recruit some skinny HBFer anyway

 

[jusjoshin]

We have recuited some players with attacking flair. Hill (worn like a glove last night), Morabito (coming back soon), Fyfe (won't contribute much this year), Crozier (we might see some glimpses later this season), Pav (spending too much time in the quicksand our midfield has become trying to get his hands on the ball), and Ballantyne (seems to be playing as a wing, again, probably so he can get a touch).

Our midfielders aren't suited to this congested game plan. They aren't as good through heavy traffic. We've recruited some gut runners (Mzungu, Hill) and a couple of hard bodies who can get the ball but will butcher it under pressure (Pearce, De Boer, Crowley). Congesting the contests is only highlighting the flaws in these players. They are average players, and they look good when they have SPACE. Other teams have worked Sandi's taps out, so we need him to start pumpimg the ball into space, let our mids run onto it.

We either need to put the guys who operate well in traffic (Lower, McPharlin, McPhee) around the contests, or institute a new game plan. I don't like the idea of leaping Luke in the middle (he seems to cop a few too many injuries - wrong body type for the middle). I'd think some other kind of strategy around the contests. We have a dominant ruck but can get no value from him because our mids are poor. We have the big bodies required for Ross' plan, but not the skillset, it will take some pain learning the necessary skills.

 

[Kickett Punches Read]

Instead of being proactive, Ross has coached us to be reactive to the opposition rather than taking the game on with flair and excitement. That's a pretty big issue here too.

As for your comment about the coach being as good as his players, I'd be careful there as that goes against the theme of the board where the majority believe Ross is the best etc etc etc.



Quite a few but why haven't we done better with them?

Lack of forward line structure?
Poor quality of forward line entries?

That if I'm not mistaken is the responsibility of Lyon and Sumich and they're both failing miserably.



Responsibility of skills coach or forward line coach, unsure which but again it all links back to the game plan.



The list isn't actually that bad in all honesty. What you'll find is the game plan is completely unsuitable for the list we have and that's 75% of the issue here.

Your right, it is the responsibility of the coach, but you cant polish a **** into a diamond.... you could have the best coaching staff of all time, but without decent players you wont get anywhere, this im thinking, is where we differ, you obviously feel that we have a good enough list, I think we have an average list at very best.

We need to be defensive, because we dont have a midfield or forwardline at afl standard. all we can do is defend because we have nobody to get the ball forward, and on the rare occasion that we do, we dont have anyone to kick the goals.

this all falls under the coaches banner, but lyon inherited this list, if we are playing the same way in 3 years time i will agree with you, but until we get rid of the dead wood and spineless muppets on our list we wont get anywhere... we certainly wont get anywhere whilst pav, mcpharlin and sandi are still playing. we need to look at trading players with any currency that dont add enough value, and recruit smartly... unfortunately with bond and lloyds record i dont have much faith in that either.

Ibbotson, duffield, griffin, suban, chricton, deboer, roberton to a lesser degree barlow, mzungu, broughton, pearce should all be tradeable at the right price. Hell, if a team offered a first rounder for sandilands id take that now as well because we need to get some long term talent.

obviously not all those players are going to go, but we need to get rid of these flaky players that really only offer anything when we are going well.

im still obviously emotional about the weekend, but i have een saying this for a while, our list needs a large overhaul

 

[Kram]

how would you know about defence when you cant even spell the word?

Rich from someone that doesn't even know the difference from your and you're.

 

[sportsmaniac89]

Your right, it is the responsibility of the coach, but you cant polish a **** into a diamond.... you could have the best coaching staff of all time, but without decent players you wont get anywhere, this im thinking, is where we differ, you obviously feel that we have a good enough list, I think we have an average list at very best.

I think we have a better list than the level they're performing at right this second. In fact I'm certain that under the right style, we'd be sitting a lot better off.

We need to be defensive, because we dont have a midfield or forwardline at afl standard. all we can do is defend because we have nobody to get the ball forward, and on the rare occasion that we do, we dont have anyone to kick the goals.

How can we improve if we can't even get the ball down there?

How do the forward structures get tested if we can't even get the ball there?

Mayne's kicking alright this year, Pav's kicked reasonable. We need a KPF and soon in my eyes and we'll have more confidence.

this all falls under the coaches banner, but lyon inherited this list, if we are playing the same way in 3 years time i will agree with you, but until we get rid of the dead wood and spineless muppets on our list we wont get anywhere... we certainly wont get anywhere whilst pav, mcpharlin and sandi are still playing. we need to look at trading players with any currency that dont add enough value, and recruit smartly... unfortunately with bond and lloyds record i dont have much faith in that either.

No-one knows what's going to happen in 3 years time, hopefully the good times will roll.

In terms of recruiting, Bond and Lloyd recruited for a specific game style that Harvey had and when Harvey got turfed, well, those players suddenly become useless under a new coach unless that new coach plays a similar style to his predecessor.

The players have said that they think Ross' game plan is similar to Harvey's with a bit more emphasis on defence but really, I don't see any similarity. I didn't see Harvey flooding back with 18 players as often as I've seen Ross do it. I saw more attacking flair and willingness to take the game on under Harvey while with Ross I see none of that whatsoever.

Ibbotson, duffield, griffin, suban, chricton, deboer, roberton to a lesser degree barlow, mzungu, broughton, pearce should all be tradeable at the right price. Hell, if a team offered a first rounder for sandilands id take that now as well because we need to get some long term talent.
obviously not all those players are going to go, but we need to get rid of these flaky players that really only offer anything when we are going well.

I don't think you'd trade DeBoer, Pearce, Suban, Barlow, Mzungu or Broughton and I'd say jury's out on Crichton and Roberton.

Griffin could be something if Sandi weren't playing so he's 50/50 in my eyes.

Ibbo and Duffield though might be potential trade bait if they don't lift their game.

im still obviously emotional about the weekend, but i have een saying this for a while, our list needs a large overhaul

We're all very emotional and this morning I was still steaming in anger about it all.

 

[paul8241]

Better stop commenting on Crichton to KPR, I just noticed a fail on the spelling, the cops are after you now. 

 

[Kickett Punches Read]

I think we have a better list than the level they're performing at right this second. In fact I'm certain that under the right style, we'd be sitting a lot better off.



How can we improve if we can't even get the ball down there?

How do the forward structures get tested if we can't even get the ball there?

Mayne's kicking alright this year, Pav's kicked reasonable. We need a KPF and soon in my eyes and we'll have more confidence.



No-one knows what's going to happen in 3 years time, hopefully the good times will roll.

In terms of recruiting, Bond and Lloyd recruited for a specific game style that Harvey had and when Harvey got turfed, well, those players suddenly become useless under a new coach unless that new coach plays a similar style to his predecessor.

The players have said that they think Ross' game plan is similar to Harvey's with a bit more emphasis on defence but really, I don't see any similarity. I didn't see Harvey flooding back with 18 players as often as I've seen Ross do it. I saw more attacking flair and willingness to take the game on under Harvey while with Ross I see none of that whatsoever.



I don't think you'd trade DeBoer, Pearce, Suban, Barlow, Mzungu or Broughton and I'd say jury's out on Crichton and Roberton.

Griffin could be something if Sandi weren't playing so he's 50/50 in my eyes.

Ibbo and Duffield though might be potential trade bait if they don't lift their game.



We're all very emotional and this morning I was still steaming in anger about it all.

no, i dont think we would trade all of them, but i think any of those guys could be potential trade bait if the right deal was offered

 

[Kickett Punches Read]

Rich from someone that doesn't even know the difference from your and you're.

you're right, silly comment, and im not sure why i brought it up

 

[Nickos66]

I've mentally packed it in for the year guys. Let's tank and go for Mason Shaw.

It's just easier this way, rather than causing premature baldness.

When all else fails, embrace apathy.

 

[Mudd]

I'm not sure why people are complaining about Ross's defensive gameplan, we have a very average midfield and forward line, we would be worse off than Melbourne if we were having attacking shootouts each week.

We won't make the finals this year, yet again we are going through a major rebuild. Hopefully this time it's under the direction of the right man.

 

[Sunshine Saint]

I'm not sure why people are complaining about Ross's defensive gameplan, we have a very average midfield and forward line, we would be worse off than Melbourne if we were having attacking shootouts each week.

We won't make the finals this year, yet again we are going through a major rebuild. Hopefully this time it's under the direction of the right man.

WOW here's a surprise, Lyon has brought a mind numbing defence to Freo. You now have forwards that are to busy up the ground defending, that you are unable to score. Well we would have never predicted, or saw that coming!

And the next surprise will be at the end of the year, when you are on here devising lists of potential recruits and you find that Lyon trades your picks for Hawthorn hacks, Richmond rejects and Essendon sex offenders. Don't set your heart on recruiting, blooding and then playing exciting young kids.

 

[Purple Suit]

It's not all bad. With the slop we are serving up now and over the next 4 weeks the axe should fall and we can test out our depth. Blood a few of the young guys and we might find a player or too. Stamp the papers of the rest, play the soft ones loose and unaccountable and try and increase their value from zero to pick 54 during trade week.

If only we had kept a coach or two from last year, Ross might have known not to play JVB or Crichton in a derby ffs.

 

[nurries]

It's not all bad. With the slop we are serving up now and over the next 4 weeks the axe should fall and we can test out our depth. Blood a few of the young guys and we might find a player or too. Stamp the papers of the rest, play the soft ones loose and unaccountable and try and increase their value from zero to pick 54 during trade week.

If only we had kept a coach or two from last year, Ross might have known not to play JVB or Crichton in a derby ffs.

Simon Lloyd, michael Prior and to a lesser extent Todd Curley

 

[Reginald Perrin]

Toughen up you lot........Gossip Girl, Eurovision & Seppo sports....I know everyone hates losing but this is going too far.

We will turn it around, listening to Ross's presser he was admitting our midfield is a weakness and was talking about bringing in Sheridan, Walters & Crozier. Things will get better....We have a tough month ahead but it will be good to see these guys get a run....plus Mora will be back soon.....then Fyfe...

I'm glad he did a great presser, because apparently that's what Freo needed, an experienced coach who does great pressers. Boy, are we on the right track now.

how would you know about defence when you cant even spell the word?

Exactly. I was watching a historical re-enactment of the civil war the other day, and was amazed at the sheer number of enemy attacks which were thwarted by a cleverly placed spelling bee.

 

[Nickos66]

Reg's sarcasm dispenser is stuck on and snapped off.

 

[Chops_a_must]

Exactly. I was watching a historical re-enactment of the civil war the other day, and was amazed at the sheer number of enemy attacks which were thwarted by a cleverly placed spelling bee.

Could you use that in a sentanse.

 

[MadMac]

WOW here's a surprise, Lyon has brought a mind numbing defence to Freo. You now have forwards that are to busy up the ground defending, that you are unable to score. Well we would have never predicted, or saw that coming!

And the next surprise will be at the end of the year, when you are on here devising lists of potential recruits and you find that Lyon trades your picks for Hawthorn hacks, Richmond rejects and Essendon sex offenders. Don't set your heart on recruiting, blooding and then playing exciting young kids.

I lol'd [I guess I shouldn't laugh, but can't help it]
Anyway, my first thought when Ross was appointed a coach of Freo was, "this is a bloke who recruited Dean Polo and Brett Peake". However, I believe he is a good coach despite all that, and regardless of the amount of talent he had at his disposal at the Saints he still took them to 2 GF, which G. Thomas failed to do. I know it's been mentioned lot of times, but that bounce was a difference between winning and losing a GF, so you need a bit of a luck. Don't forget that Saints we're dead and buried and his change in tactic played a big part in Saints' comeback.

Every team needs plodders with specific roles to play. Sure, we have plenty of those on our list, too many in fact, that he needs to weed the surplus out first. Blooding young players should mean playing them when they're ready to displace experienced player already in the team, not just playing them for the sake of it or just because they're young. I recall Steven and Sippos tearing us a new one last year at Subi. You can not tell me that he completely ignored young players while at Saints.

And finally, Lovett. Well, that was always going to be a 50/50 punt. Was he worth the first rounder on talent alone? Damn right he was. He was a friggin dynamite. It's unfortunate that it didn't work out and it's all good looking at it in hindsight and say that we all knew how it was going to pan out and that he wasted a first rounder on a player that never even started a season. Using the same hindsight, sacking him immediately without waiting for the justice to take its course was even bigger mistake than recruiting him. It also smacked of hypocrisy because the other two well known players on the same list with similar "issues" remained on the payroll and in the team. Looking back, he could have made a difference big enough not to rely on that pesky bounce. And we wouldn't even have this conversation in the first place as Ross would've been a premiership coach as St. Kilda and locked on a 5 year deal.

 

[sansian]

This is hilarious! Have we been recycling threads from the last few years?We can swap the Ross Lyon for Harvey or Connelly on any of the posts

 

[ChrisFooty]

It's not all bad. With the slop we are serving up now and over the next 4 weeks the axe should fall and we can test out our depth. Blood a few of the young guys and we might find a player or too.

Good luck with that one. My biggest gripe with Ross Lyon at St.kilda was he did not play the young kids often enough. Ross was keen to play the likes of Polo, Eddy and McQualter in predictable roles. In turns out St.kilda are not the bottom four team in 2012 because they actually do have some exciting youngsters. They just never got a go! It's a shame St.kilda have lost Walsh to Sydney because of this reason.

I hope the Dockers don't follow this path. Otherwise Ross will be a great coach for the Dockers once the players have adjusted to the new game plan.

 

[Lach72]

Good luck with that one. My biggest gripe with Ross Lyon at St.kilda was he did not play the young kids often enough. Ross was keen to play the likes of Polo, Eddy and McQualter in predictable roles. In turns out St.kilda are not the bottom four team in 2012 because they actually do have some exciting youngsters. They just never got a go! It's a shame St.kilda have lost Walsh to Sydney because of this reason.

I hope the Dockers don't follow this path. Otherwise Ross will be a great coach for the Dockers once the players have adjusted to the new game plan.

He played Steven.
He played Cripps, he played Simpkin, he played Siposs.

 

[Sunshine Saint]

I lol'd [I guess I shouldn't laugh, but can't help it]
Anyway, my first thought when Ross was appointed a coach of Freo was, "this is a bloke who recruited Dean Polo and Brett Peake". However, I believe he is a good coach despite all that, and regardless of the amount of talent he had at his disposal at the Saints he still took them to 2 GF, which G. Thomas failed to do. I know it's been mentioned lot of times, but that bounce was a difference between winning and losing a GF, so you need a bit of a luck. Don't forget that Saints we're dead and buried and his change in tactic played a big part in Saints' comeback.

Every team needs plodders with specific roles to play. Sure, we have plenty of those on our list, too many in fact, that he needs to weed the surplus out first. Blooding young players should mean playing them when they're ready to displace experienced player already in the team, not just playing them for the sake of it or just because they're young. I recall Steven and Sippos tearing us a new one last year at Subi. You can not tell me that he completely ignored young players while at Saints.

And finally, Lovett. Well, that was always going to be a 50/50 punt. Was he worth the first rounder on talent alone? Damn right he was. He was a friggin dynamite. It's unfortunate that it didn't work out and it's all good looking at it in hindsight and say that we all knew how it was going to pan out and that he wasted a first rounder on a player that never even started a season. Using the same hindsight, sacking him immediately without waiting for the justice to take its course was even bigger mistake than recruiting him. It also smacked of hypocrisy because the other two well known players on the same list with similar "issues" remained on the payroll and in the team. Looking back, he could have made a difference big enough not to rely on that pesky bounce. And we wouldn't even have this conversation in the first place as Ross would've been a premiership coach as St. Kilda and locked on a 5 year deal.

Good point, hindsight is a great thing But two points to take are that Lyon is a one trick pony with game plan & that his mantra is on bringing in mature hard bodies for structure

Only last year did he play more than one young guy and then would only give them one or two games at the most The development this year is due to both us having an offensive AND defensive game plan AND bringing in a host of youth & new players

I appreciate we got close to two flags but it was like living in a Eastern Block cold war controlled economy A breath of fresh air this year & now so so many opportunities ahead Exciting times

 

[Nickos66]

giving debuts to the likes of Neale & Spurr whilst also giving games to Roberton, Crichton and other youngsters flies in the face of that logic. He still has to deal with the cards Bondy & Lloyd dealt him with the plethora of youngsters in the squad. it's a bit hard to avoid it when 75% of your list is 24 or under. (Just an educated guess.)

 

[Patty_Moz]

Ibbotson, duffield, griffin, suban, chricton, deboer, roberton to a lesser degree barlow, mzungu, broughton, pearce should all be tradeable at the right price. Hell, if a team offered a first rounder for sandilands id take that now as well because we need to get some long term talent.

im still obviously emotional about the weekend, but i have een saying this for a while, our list needs a large overhaul

While I agree that our list needs an overhaul I'd prefer to see the older spuds like Crowley, Bradley, Anthony, Grover but also Duffield, Mzungu and Ibbo given the boot with Mcphee and Johnson also shown the door in the next couple of years.

With the highlighted guys above and along with Pitt, Walters, Lower I'd like to see them given more games and responsibility and try to get a big group of players up to that 50-100 game experience a lot like the Eagles side atm.

 

[Sunshine Saint]

giving debuts to the likes of Neale & Spurr whilst also giving games to Roberton, Crichton and other youngsters flies in the face of that logic. He still has to deal with the cards Bondy & Lloyd dealt him with the plethora of youngsters in the squad. it's a bit hard to avoid it when 75% of your list is 24 or under. (Just an educated guess.)

Your playing list now are as you rightly say not of Lyons doing My comments were only on his one trick game plan & his propensity to draft / trade for older recycled players

I hope it works out for you

 

[Dr Ralph Dagg]

Your right, it is the responsibility of the coach, but you cant polish a **** into a diamond.... you could have the best coaching staff of all time, but without decent players you wont get anywhere, this im thinking, is where we differ, you obviously feel that we have a good enough list, I think we have an average list at very best.

We need to be defensive, because we dont have a midfield or forwardline at afl standard. all we can do is defend because we have nobody to get the ball forward, and on the rare occasion that we do, we dont have anyone to kick the goals.

this all falls under the coaches banner, but lyon inherited this list, if we are playing the same way in 3 years time i will agree with you, but until we get rid of the dead wood and spineless muppets on our list we wont get anywhere... we certainly wont get anywhere whilst pav, mcpharlin and sandi are still playing. we need to look at trading players with any currency that dont add enough value, and recruit smartly... unfortunately with bond and lloyds record i dont have much faith in that either.

Ibbotson, duffield, griffin, suban, chricton, deboer, roberton to a lesser degree barlow, mzungu, broughton, pearce should all be tradeable at the right price. Hell, if a team offered a first rounder for sandilands id take that now as well because we need to get some long term talent.

obviously not all those players are going to go, but we need to get rid of these flaky players that really only offer anything when we are going well.

im still obviously emotional about the weekend, but i have een saying this for a while, our list needs a large overhaul

Can I just confirm. Nothing anyone said would change your mind would it?