Divide and Diminish - the AFL's failed Decade in QLD

Hi Albi,

Sorry if I offended you. It wasn't my intention. I'm actually a Queenslander myself.

My thinking of showcasing block busters here are for a few reasons;

a) it's arrogant to think everyone in Queensland follow Queensland sides
b) it's broadening the market of a brand, no different to playing in Tasmania, China or New Zealand
c) it's not state of origin and the thinking that Queensland want a good Queensland team is narrow minded
d) I'd imagine that Queenslanders just want a good competitive sport (just my open minded thoughts)

Having opposition supports is great for $ but poor for fan morale, Because we are bad the member areas have many spare seats that get filled with opposition supporters. Assuming most are qlders it means they get to see their team play at most once a year (you guys are what - once in 7years??). They can be very hyped and, like our last home game, some don’t cope so well when the lowly lions don’t run to form and cave in the first ten minutes. While we are experienced losers their cheering changes tone and frequently annoys the crap out of us.

I’d much prefer to have us winning and so many members that the opposition fans can’t get a ticket.
 

Albi_Mangler

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a) it's arrogant to think everyone in Queensland follow Queensland sides)

It is very clear that there are Qlders who do not follow the Qld sides. I have 2 in my own household, they jumped off the Lions because they are young/want to following winning teams (probably similar to yourself). Also anyone that regularly attends home games (like i do) at the Gabba, witness the away supporter numbers whenever the Vic teams are in town.

There are probably about 5k at the absolute most any game... so even if you had Pies vs Bombers Or Hawks vs Geelong (blockbusters as you call them) I guarantee you would not get close to the attendance figure for a game against the Lions by any of those teams.


b) it's broadening the market of a brand, no different to playing in Tasmania, China or New Zealand

But (and this is the crux of the whole argument) there are two AFL sides that already play in this state, they ARE the brand, them playing well is the only way to grow the sport long term in Qld.

Have a look at what games AFL send to Tas/China/NZ .. Suns/Lions/Saints/Roos. So even if your suggestion of Vic teams 'blockbusters' were played in Qld (never happen) it would provide little to no long term benefit to the game and clubs here... unless you seriously think AFL in China and NZ is about to boom just because of a few exhibition games.


c) it's not state of origin and the thinking that Queensland want a good Queensland team is narrow minded
d) I'd imagine that Queenslanders just want a good competitive sport (just my open minded thoughts)

Qld is very much a SOO state. In every code we watch. If you really believe that Qlders just want to watch quality sport, check out the TV ratings for AFL games not featuring Qld sides. Even check out the attendance figures for one day cricket held at the Gabba for matches not featuring Australia between top sides like India vs SAF or ENG or recent football games at Suncorp featuring quality team such as Japan or Korea.

My statement should probably be - The only thing (the overwhelming majority of) Qlders want is a winning successful QLD teams.
 
Great article Paul,

Obviously a passionate supporter of AFL.

My thought on AFL in Qld.

Continuously schedule block buster games here.
ie. Bombers v pies, blues v pies, cats v Hawks etc etc

Don't rely on the marketing ability of the Lions or Suns.
Show case the best the AFL has on offer on a regular basis so Queenslanders can see what our great game truely is.

Just a thought

How much chance do you reckon there is of getting those game away from Melbourne? Why not try something realistic like paying people $100 to attend Lions/Suns games.
 
May 11, 2018
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It is very clear that there are Qlders who do not follow the Qld sides. I have 2 in my own household, they jumped off the Lions because they are young/want to following winning teams (probably similar to yourself). Also anyone that regularly attends home games (like i do) at the Gabba, witness the away supporter numbers whenever the Vic teams are in town.

There are probably about 5k at the absolute most any game... so even if you had Pies vs Bombers Or Hawks vs Geelong (blockbusters as you call them) I guarantee you would not get close to the attendance figure for a game against the Lions by any of those teams.




But (and this is the crux of the whole argument) there are two AFL sides that already play in this state, they ARE the brand, them playing well is the only way to grow the sport long term in Qld.

Have a look at what games AFL send to Tas/China/NZ .. Suns/Lions/Saints/Roos. So even if your suggestion of Vic teams 'blockbusters' were played in Qld (never happen) it would provide little to no long term benefit to the game and clubs here... unless you seriously think AFL in China and NZ is about to boom just because of a few exhibition games.




Qld is very much a SOO state. In every code we watch. If you really believe that Qlders just want to watch quality sport, check out the TV ratings for AFL games not featuring Qld sides. Even check out the attendance figures for one day cricket held at the Gabba for matches not featuring Australia between top sides like India vs SAF or ENG or recent football games at Suncorp featuring quality team such as Japan or Korea.

My statement should probably be - The only thing (the overwhelming majority of) Qlders want is a winning successful QLD teams.

Well sir, you seem to be the expert on the matter and I am definitely not here to get into a p#ssing comp with the experts.
I was just sharing my opinion. An opinion not worthy of personal attacks.
 

BrisVegasDru

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Thanks Paul I too appreciate your effort and found it thought provoking. I also am a little bit more optimistic about the current younger generation of Lions players IF we can keep them, but share everyone else's thoughts on the Suns. I certainly don't cheer for them as a 2nd team as they play out of Queensland.

If you want to stir up the Blues fans what about Marc Murphy even when we were still a top side couldn't lure him out of Melbourne as a father son selection, and now they are diluting the effect of our academies. Think some Victorian Clubs have even developed their own, is it Chris Johnson's very promising son who is likely to go to Essendon by way of an indigenous academy they have set up?
 
We often complain about certain clubs having too much influence and coming from the clubs` viewpoint, they are just trying to do the best for their clubs. Unfortunately, the AFL leadership usually supports them, often at the expense of their 'smaller' clubs. Decisions in the last few years that have affected these vulnerable clubs include the introduction of the Giants and Suns, free agency, and the granting of team zones outside NSW and Qld. How many advantages that helped or favoured us have been removed or completely diluted, while advantages to some Victorian clubs remains? (likely $$$)

The lack of long term thinking of the AFL and scenario planning when introducing the new clubs is astounding. What were the scenarios in which both the Suns and Lions proposer? They bet it all on the Suns but it didn't work. They went for red but it came up black. The way they did it was to set up the Suns, while at the same time weakening Brisbane (I acknowledge that the Club also was poorly run etc) and few other clubs. The Suns got some good players and picks, but had terrible facilities and now their premiership window is probably shut. Like some others. I don't care at for the Suns.

The AFL currently have two poorly performing clubs in Qld, and it will be amazing if the Giants don't move this way in a few years. I don't think that the Giants will win a premiership, while Sydney, Geelong, Hawthorn, Adelaide and West Coast never seem to drop too far (add Richmond who are really on top of their game). I don't believe that creating two bottom rung teams will be a successful outcome of their expansion.

Luckily, now we at least have some high quality administrators, which as least something the AFL has helped facilitate. However, if we have another player exodus, then we are in trouble. I am really hoping that Lions pull ourselves out of this mess, but our viability as a competitive club is now resting on the next few years. Exciting but scary.
 
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Luckily, now we at least have some high quality administrators, which as least something the AFL has helped facilitate. However, if we have another player exodus, then we are in trouble. I am really hoping that Lions pull ourselves out of this mess, but our viability as a competitive club is now resting on the next few years. Exciting but scary.

Exciting but scary is a good way of putting it.

Rayner, McCluggage, Berry, Witherden. Bailey, Cox etc are our future but lets' not kid ourselves here.....these guys plus a most of our other "good" young players have committed for like 2-4 years.....not for life.

So I think you are 100% correct ..... the next few years are massive for us, We really must show something by Season 2020 by the absolute latest, lest our young/developing talent is seduced by the brighter lights and promise of fame and glory elsewhere.
 
May 11, 2018
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Another thought re fan attendance. I believe weather has an impact eg suns supports have great weather and choose between transport difficulties and watching uninspiring afl or easier transport (tram and car parks) and spend the time swimming/walking/running/playing on the beach/fishing/boating and following up with a beer at a surf club with a billion dollar view. They can record the game and if the match reports are favourable and watch it from the comfort of their favourite chair, drinking inexpensive (relatively)booze from their fridge.

It's the same in Brisbane - every weekend parks, playgrounds, sports ovals and walking paths as well as waterways are brimming with people actually doing stuff.

For the average sports watcher it needs to be an interesting game to get them to give up the alternatives and neither team have provided that in recent times.

Interesting point regarding weather observations.
Could you include the following;

Auskick numbers in Queensland are exceptionally healthy and high.
The number of junior, senior men's & women's teams in Qld is exceeding 230,000 participants.
These numbers climb each year by at least 10%
Female AFL alone in Qld is the fastest growing of any sector and they have over 90,000 participants.
Even club levels have grown by 11%.

Some people would agree some clubs or even some leagues struggle in Qld.
I won't argue that point as I am a member of AFLDD and our league is possibly the worst it's been, this year.
In saying that though I could possibly go back as far as 10 years and the same argument was being had in AFLDD back then, as the one we are having right now. (That our league will fold).

My point is,
If the Lions and the Suns are playing at the same time as over 230,000 AFL loving Queenslanders that are participating at their own clubs. Then I think it's plausible to include this in the questions and answers as to where are Lions and Suns supporters.
 
May 11, 2018
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Just to add to my above post, I think AFL statistically is pretty healthy in Qld.
Sure, the Lions and Suns aren't winning games but these are club issues and club issues alone.

Lions have over 24,000 members.
Suns have over 10,000 members.

Broncos amass over 34,000 but
Titans only around 8,000.

Then if you used the age old argument that AFL suffers in Qld due to NRL, well I think this is just an easy incorrect excuse.
If you flipped that around to Victoria, a dominated AFL state, well Melbourne Storm are breaking their own records and are Pushing 28,000 members this year and their home ground is 5 minutes from the MCG.
why?
Maybe because they recruit well, have great admin staff, great coaches and don't make up poor excuses of us V's them.

But then again these are just my thoughts and my research.
Maybe the Lions and Suns should recruit better across the board and on the field.
 

briztoon

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Just to add to my above post, I think AFL statistically is pretty healthy in Qld.
Sure, the Lions and Suns aren't winning games but these are club issues and club issues alone.

Lions have over 24,000 members.
Suns have over 10,000 members.

Broncos amass over 34,000 but
Titans only around 8,000.

Then if you used the age old argument that AFL suffers in Qld due to NRL, well I think this is just an easy incorrect excuse.
If you flipped that around to Victoria, a dominated AFL state, well Melbourne Storm are breaking their own records and are Pushing 28,000 members this year and their home ground is 5 minutes from the MCG.
why?
Maybe because they recruit well, have great admin staff, great coaches and don't make up poor excuses of us V's them.

But then again these are just my thoughts and my research.
Maybe the Lions and Suns should recruit better across the board and on the field.
Can you tell us how we can recruit better on field?
 

marooned

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Just to add to my above post, I think AFL statistically is pretty healthy in Qld.
Sure, the Lions and Suns aren't winning games but these are club issues and club issues alone.

Lions have over 24,000 members.
Suns have over 10,000 members.

Broncos amass over 34,000 but
Titans only around 8,000.

Then if you used the age old argument that AFL suffers in Qld due to NRL, well I think this is just an easy incorrect excuse.
If you flipped that around to Victoria, a dominated AFL state, well Melbourne Storm are breaking their own records and are Pushing 28,000 members this year and their home ground is 5 minutes from the MCG.
why?
Maybe because they recruit well, have great admin staff, great coaches and don't make up poor excuses of us V's them.

But then again these are just my thoughts and my research.
Maybe the Lions and Suns should recruit better across the board and on the field.
Membership numbers are not a good comparison for afl/nrl discussions.Afl have always had a membership based model to fund clubs.More members better financially.The Nrl have had a leagues club based model.Grow your leagues club for financial benefits for your team.An example of this is the Roosters their average crowd has been less than 10000 for years yet they are one of the most financially secure clubs because of their leagues club.
 

SRH17

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Tassie, i played in that irregular competition and i was fortunate enough to watch Michael Voss as a junior being a couple of years younger than him and playing at Morningside. I can assure you, actually i can guarantee you that there wasn't 3 better players in the universe than Michael Voss as an underage footballer. To this day, i doubt there has been a junior footballer dominate the game like Voss did. I can't remember the last time a midfielder kicked 14 goals in a Teal Cup equivalent game. The bloke was a genius.

Just on the state of AFL footy in QLD, the game is so healthy at a local level, there are more and more clubs popping up everywhere. The number of kids playing AFL in schools has increased 20 fold in my time. I am not willing to blame the AFL for anything. Our club woes are due to poor management and a lack of process in the selection of the senior coach. You make your own bed in this world.
Well there may be clubs popping up everywhere, but there also “traditional” clubs in decline, Mayne Juniors and Sandgate being two examples off the top of my head. Competition with private schools who mandate that pupils play school sport on the weekend doesn’t help. My mates son played in an under 16 grand final last year and were in it up to their eyeballs at half time, then the kid who was bog at the time had to go and play in his school soccer final and they end up going down by 5 points.
 
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Membership numbers are not a good comparison for afl/nrl discussions.Afl have always had a membership based model to fund clubs.More members better financially.The Nrl have had a leagues club based model.Grow your leagues club for financial benefits for your team.An example of this is the Roosters their average crowd has been less than 10000 for years yet they are one of the most financially secure clubs because of their leagues club.

The point wasn't comparing AFL and NRL as sports, it's to show that I don't think AFL Queensland is on a diminished path as this thread is about.
Membership numbers is just that. Clearly showing where they are at in a state that shares another very strong national sport being NRL.
But thank you for sharing.

Off topic though.......However to point out your aspect of NRL and leagues club based models. This isn't entirely true. I'm pretty sure Melbourne Storm don't have a leagues club. (Correct me if I'm wrong) if you'd like to discuss it further start a new thread and I'm happy to join in your point of NRL.
 
May 11, 2018
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Well there may be clubs popping up everywhere, but there also “traditional” clubs in decline, Mayne Juniors and Sandgate being two examples off the top of my head. Competition with private schools who mandate that pupils play school sport on the weekend doesn’t help. My mates son played in an under 16 grand final last year and were in it up to their eyeballs at half time, then the kid who was bog at the time had to go and play in his school soccer final and they end up going down by 5 points.

Hi,
Your spot on with your point on schools. I'd even go as far as saying this is certainly one area I think AFLQ have got wrong. The introduction of the AFL Queensland Schools Cup in 2016 sparked an increase of almost 25% in school participants.
Straight from Mr Dean Warren, AFLQ Schools Cup had 419 teams entering in this inaugural year.

I seen first hand how this impacted us negatively in the Darling Downs. This year alone 3 local schools had full under 17 teams and our club couldn't even secure 5 players from those schools. Further more the entire under 17 comp in the Darling Downs is pretty done and dusted, this year. Only one club from 10 has a side.
But again the school comps are thriving.

It's taking away a path way to seniors.
 

Ranga Hardie

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Well there may be clubs popping up everywhere, but there also “traditional” clubs in decline, Mayne Juniors and Sandgate being two examples off the top of my head. Competition with private schools who mandate that pupils play school sport on the weekend doesn’t help. My mates son played in an under 16 grand final last year and were in it up to their eyeballs at half time, then the kid who was bog at the time had to go and play in his school soccer final and they end up going down by 5 points.
Excellent points you have made here. So sad to see these clubs not prospering. I know my son played under 11’s last year at Sandgate . I know this year half the team is gone including my son because private schools demand they play for their school. This is a major reason for afl not flourishing in Brisbane. Kids in the area love the game but just aren’t allowed to play it. There is no avenue for the juniors to progress through to the colts and senior levels which is why they are last in the qafl competition. If this was fixed Sandgate would be strongest club in Brisbane.
 

Ranga Hardie

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May 1, 2017
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Queensland afl football has completely lost its history and identity and something needs to be done about it. Pretty foolish to think that the powers that be aren’t aware this and know the reasons behind it. Afl junior clubs could and should prosper in Brisbane and be a credible nursery for afl talent at the highest level.
 
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