Environment DMT

[estibador]

The line you haven't tried something so you can't opine, judge, criticize, etc is so laughable.

You can opine, but like anything in life it's only natural that your opinion will carry little weight with someone who has actually lived it.

 

[alfy!]

You can opine, but like anything in life it's only natural that your opinion will carry little weight with someone who has actually lived it.

In certain aspects of the discussion, sure. The majority of discussion here can be intelligently discussed from both sides of the equation though.

I personally haven't found any of the discussion in this thread deep or complex enough for only those that have tried DMT to have a place in commenting about it.

 

[exe ex machina]

You can't judge anyone for murder, rape, incest, either then. Nor the opposite sex. Etc. You haven't lived it. See how brilliant that is. Hide behind something as tho you're beyond judgment and criticism.

Unfortunately it doesn't work that way no matter how much you want it to be, or lalalala others.

 

[estibador]

You can't judge anyone for murder, rape, incest, either then. Nor the opposite sex. Etc. You haven't lived it. See how brilliant that is. Hide behind something as tho you're beyond judgment and criticism.

I knew murder would be the comeback - as predictable as the other side of the argument using the alcohol defence.

Not really comparable though is it?

The argument we use against the staunch anti-drug brigade is that there are positives to drug use that they couldn't possibly know about without trying themselves. That makes the argument farcically one-sided from our perspective - because we already know about the genuine dangers (often with far more practical knowledge than the moralising non-users who are just regurgitating propaganda that is often incorrect), yet we've also seen the other side which non-users have absolutely no frame of reference to comprehend.

In contrast you couldn't possibly mount an ethical argument in favour of rape and murder, they're 100% destructive/evil with no redeeming features.

 

[Yellow Feathers]

If you tried it you would understand. But you won't...

You're a blind man telling me about colour right now. Whatever ideas you have in your head about what DMT does? Throw them out the window. It's much, much stranger. And much more profound.

 

[alfy!]

because we already know about the genuine dangers (often with far more practical knowledge than the moralising non-users

Yes, let's just look over the very first post again...

DMT is literally the best drug in the world. I urge everyone here to integrate it into their weekly routine. It's life changing.

Incredibly intelligent and knowledgeable stuff.

 

[exe ex machina]

Hey theres a great new high you must try otherwise you're beneath me.

Pull out one of your fresh turds from the toilet, it must be fresh from the toilet, then coat it completely in cinnamon, and let it dry in room temperature. Then ground down some viagra and some ambien pills, and again coat it with that. Then coat that with a little honey. Now open your mouth and eat that turd up.

Seriously you must try it. You haven't lived. Highly recommend its a weekly staple.

The funny thing is if this was recommended by someone on an internet drug culture group, im positive Nicky et al would try it.

 

[little graham]

In contrast you couldn't possibly mount an ethical argument in favour of rape and murder, they're 100% destructive/evil with no redeeming features.

Ask a East German civilian who survived ww2 how things went as the russians advanced.

First wave of red armies finest looked for men and guns, second wave was reinforcements and third wave was command and supply. Neither were interested in the civilians. However the fourth wave was the rape squads. It is common knowledge and no one was ever prosecuted in any way for the systematic state sponsored raping of a race.

Good drugs will teach you that there's always an exception to the rule.

 

[estibador]

Yes, let's just look over the very first post again...

Incredibly intelligent and knowledgeable stuff.

Despite my liberal (and probably ill-advised) use of the word 'we' I'm actually only arguing for myself. Can't control what others say.

 

[estibador]

Ask a East German civilian who survived ww2 how things went as the russians advanced.

First wave of red armies finest looked for men and guns, second wave was reinforcements and third wave was command and supply. Neither were interested in the civilians. However the fourth wave was the rape squads. It is common knowledge and no one was ever prosecuted in any way for the systematic state sponsored raping of a race.

Good drugs will teach you that there's always an exception to the rule.

Not sure what your point is here tbh.

Being state sanctioned is not the same as being morally just. In fact that's the central tenet of the whole argument against the illicit drugs bad/alcohol good dichotomy.

 

[little graham]

Not sure what your point is here tbh.

You said that there is no argument for it. I showed an example where no ones actually complained about it, when done on a large scale, as a form of terrorism.

 

[estibador]

You said that there is no argument for it. I showed an example where no ones actually complained about it, when done on a large scale, as a form of terrorism.

Pretty disingenuous argument.

Lack of prosecution for war crimes (one of the perks of winning) does not necessarily make something morally defensible.

 

[exe ex machina]

This thread really doesn't need your input, man.

Actually it does. Much more input. Man.

 

[exe ex machina]

Not sure what your point is here tbh.

Being state sanctioned is not the same as being morally just. In fact that's the central tenet of the whole argument against the illicit drugs bad/alcohol good dichotomy.

Hey man you can't judge the morality or immorality of murder because you've never done it. Simple. Nor can anyone who hasn't murdered. All they know is what they've been fed to believe by society. Sound familiar?

 

[little graham]

Pretty disingenuous argument.

Lack of prosecution for war crimes (one of the perks of winning) does not necessarily make something morally defensible.

You see what your doing? exactly what a drug taker does, they say because the current government says its illegal, doesn't make it morally justifiable to lock harmless hippies up with serial killers.

 

[Messenger]

This thread is perilously close to jumping the shark.

Lets mind our P's and Q's please. Mandela would have wanted it so.

 

[little graham]

This thread is perilously close to jumping the shark.

What are we doing wrong? Or what could we do more right? I ask this because you've shown us respect with this warning, rather than closing it or dealing out punishments.

 

[estibador]

Hey man you can't judge the morality or immorality of murder because you've never done it. Simple. Nor can anyone who hasn't murdered. All they know is what they've been fed to believe by society. Sound familiar?

You see what your doing? exactly what a drug taker does, they say because the current government says its illegal, doesn't make it morally justifiable to lock harmless hippies up with serial killers.

Yeah, yeah, you two can play the devil's advocate and take the piss all you want, but you know as well as I do what the difference is.

Man-made religions have a lot of faults, but one thing they all got right is their base golden rule of not hurting others (if only their followers actually obeyed it).

I'm not hurting anyone if I'm tripping inside my own head on my couch - if I rape or murder your sister I am though.

 

[exe ex machina]

If you take drugs and lose your mind, kill yourself. Or get behind the wheel and kill someone.

Even just spreading the word drugs are cool you're doing harm to others who listen.

 

[estibador]

If you take drugs and lose your mind, kill yourself. Or get behind the wheel and kill someone.

That's a different argument entirely.

Alcohol isn't inherently evil, but drink driving probably is because of the danger you pose to others. Same with every other drug.

Even just spreading the word drugs are cool you're doing harm to others who listen.

Depends. I would never try peer pressure someone who didn't want to try drugs, but I think some of them have a lot to offer people with the right mindset who are already curious about going in that direction.

 

[La Dispute]

Except drugs are cool. When used in moderation and carefully monitored you can have a serious fun time using them.

However, using drugs doesn't MAKE you cool, and that has to be the distinction.

 

[Caesar]

Well Psychedelics are not a key ingredient in so many of societies failings like booze is. We don't spend millions stopping drug drivers like we do drunk drivers, nor do we have enormous health industry costs dealing with psychedelic related violence.It is of note that multiple countries just conducted a police operation called operation 'unite' to try and curb booze related behavior. so many trippers would of been sitting in the back of nightclubs laughing at the drunks and the poor coppers working night shift, ordered by a politician to get results. Think of that poor coppers wife and family and the damage to the social fabric while the police ministers party takes massive donations from the hoteliers.

So I agree with you, its like comparing apples with oranges and it astounds me why booze is legal. (I'd still drink it if it wasn't)

So you're saying they're apples and oranges, yet you spend a whole post comparing the two? You know what 'apples and oranges' means, right?

Alcohol is unique in its cultural importance to human societies. Both its legal status and the social harm it causes are purely down to that, and as such they can't really be compared to other drugs that don't have that same prevalence.

Please do not take this personal but your posts cry out for a psychedelic influence, a new consciousness.

I've never had any issue with people who take psychotropics - I like them much more than habitual drunks - but the idea that taking them imbues you with otherwise-unobtainable insights into reality has always struck me as a particularly juvenile one.

 

[little graham]

Alcohol is unique in its cultural importance to human societies. Both its legal status and the social harm it causes are purely down to that, and as such they can't really be compared to other drugs that don't have that same prevalence.

Pot, DMT, opium, mushrooms also have cultural importance to many societies, including the legal owners of this land (see mabo ruling) and that point is why I made my last statement. alcohol is not a mind altering drug, more a controlling one, hence its legal.

but the idea that taking them imbues you with otherwise-unobtainable insights into reality has always struck me as a particularly juvenile one.

Some peoples attitudes to there drug taking is a survival instinct and also a direct reaction to those who are intolerant to it.

There is something about using natural unprocessed drugs properly and the ability think outside the square, just like having a bottle of red wine in a romantic setting with the right person.

 

[alfy!]

This thread is perilously close to jumping the shark.

It did so from the very first post.

 

[Messenger]

What are we doing wrong? Or what could we do more right? I ask this because you've shown us respect with this warning, rather than closing it or dealing out punishments.

Argue the topic. A couple of posts with so poor material have been removed. Play the ball, not the man (or woman).