Current DNA finds "Le Grêlé" (The Pockmarked) One of France’s most notorious child killers was a police officer

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Kurve

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DNA from a 59-year-old retired officer corresponded to genetic traces found at the scene of multiple kidnappings, rapes and murders through the 1980s and 90s with most of the victims minors from 8 years old. I wonder if he ever holidayed in Portugal, his genetic profile should be shared with German investigators working on the Madeleine McCann case.

It began with the rape of an 8-year-old girl in 1986 and continued.

After 35 years of digging, investigators determined that the suspect had worked as a gendarme in the Paris region between 1986 and 1994, and summoned 750 current or former officers for questioning this week.

One, identified in French media as Francois V, did not show up, and was declared missing by his wife, according to a statement by the Paris prosecutor’s office. He was found dead in an apartment in the Mediterranean seaside resort of Grau-du Roi from an apparent medication overdose.

After DNA testing, the prosecutor’s office confirmed that his genetic profile corresponded to that found at several crime scenes.

The 8-year-old girl who is the first known victim was approached in the elevator of her building on April 8, 1986, by a man who identified himself as a police officer, then took her to the basement and raped and strangled her. The girl, Sarah, lost consciousness, but did not die.

A month later, an 11-year-old girl named Cecile was raped and killed in the basement of her Paris apartment building. Her half-brother crossed paths with the suspect and described him to investigators, allowing production of a police sketch that later hung in many police stations around France.

But police had no leads, so the investigation was closed in 1992. In 1996, a new judge reopened the case and ordered a genetic analysis of the evidence, which made it possible to get the suspect’s DNA.

The same genetic profile was found in several other cases: the killing of a 21-year-old German au pair in 1987, and her employer. The rape of a 14-year-old girl in 1987 in Paris. The kidnapping and rape of an 11-year-old girl in a forest in Mitry, in the eastern suburbs of Paris, in 1994. And the killing of a 19-year-old woman in 1994 in another forest.

Investigators looked in all directions over the years but couldn’t find the perpetrator. Magistrates moved on, and others took over the case.
Francois V had indeed worked as a gendarme and a police officer, and as a town councillor in the town of Prades-le-Lez in southern France.
The prosecutor’s office praised the “courage and determination” of investigator Nathalie Turquey, whose efforts to keep the case alive helped provide answers at last for loved ones of the victims.

France’s police network launched a “cold cases” unit last year, and a similar effort is under way in the justice system to foster co-operation across regions and jurisdictions.

 

BFew

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France’s police network launched a “cold cases” unit last year, and a similar effort is under way in the justice system to foster co-operation across regions and jurisdictions.
Sounds like there's a high risk of one massive can of frogs being opened here.

I wonder how many cold cases they have across Le France?

Or how many wrongful convictions will be be picked up if they start doing cooperative things across regions and jurisdictions, like a shared database of things like DNA and fingerprints (assuming they had not already been doing this for years).
 

Kurve

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Sounds like there's a high risk of one massive can of frogs being opened here.

I wonder how many cold cases they have across Le France?

Or how many wrongful convictions will be be picked up if they start doing cooperative things across regions and jurisdictions, like a shared database of things like DNA and fingerprints (assuming they had not already been doing this for years).
HUGE.
 

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Kurve

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Francois Vérove left a confession before killing himself. pfft

According to local media, Vérove mentioned "past impulses" in a letter he left behind, which he had since brought "under control", and said he had committed no crimes after 1997.

 

Kurve

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'François Vérove (died 29 September 2021) was a French serial killer and former police officer, nicknamed "Le Grêlé" (the pockmarked man)'
The child victims aren't listed here yet but wow, this interesting looking at victimology. One male this far, from the ages of 8yo up to 38yo.


Vérove's other victims include:[3]

  • Gilles Politi, 38,
  • Irmgard Mueller, 21-year-old au pair
  • Karine Leroy, 19
 

BFew

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Speculation that Francois Vérove might have joined the gendarmerie to avoid his DNA being taken.


'was he a gendarme when he killed this little girl or did he join the gendarmerie when he learned of the progress of DNA ? ", replies Bernard Pasqualini. Before concluding: "There are many questions and unfortunately many will go unanswered."'


Screen Shot 2021-10-02 at 1.27.32 pm.png
 

Kurve

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Speculation that Francois Vérove might have joined the gendarmerie to avoid his DNA being taken.


'was he a gendarme when he killed this little girl or did he join the gendarmerie when he learned of the progress of DNA ? ", replies Bernard Pasqualini. Before concluding: "There are many questions and unfortunately many will go unanswered."'


View attachment 1251339
What's the chances this will be buried? He could be responsible for so many unsolved crimes when the victimology is all over the place. i wonder why he's thought to have killed the guy. This might be my next obsession.
 

BFew

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i wonder why he's thought to have killed the guy. This might be my next obsession.
The au pair was killed along with the guy at the guys house that she was au pair'ing at.


'The serial killer, Le Grêlé, was subsequently linked to the deaths of a 19-year-old student named Karine Leroy, German au pair Irmgard Müller, aged 21, and Gilles Politi, a 38-year-old who had worked for Air France as a mechanic. Müller had been an au pair for Politi’s family.
In April 1987, Politi and Müller were found at the family home which was located in Paris, in the 4th arrondissement. They had both had their wrists tied and Müller had her throat cut. According to local reports at the time, they had been brutally tortured prior to their death.'
 

Pamcake1

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What's the chances this will be buried? He could be responsible for so many unsolved crimes when the victimology is all over the place. i wonder why he's thought to have killed the guy. This might be my next obsession.
I have just finished reading the long series published by the paper 'Les Jours'. Had to pay a euro in subscription fees but it was worth it for the detail that isnt anywhere else and this was a 12 part series before the solution of the crime. It has been an open case for the past 15 years and being worked on continously. France has not had a DNA data base until much later than Britain.
Watch Netflix 'The women and the murderer' for background on the DNA data base.
This case will not be burried and they are now going over a lot of cold cases in the areas that he moved around in.
This was the most famous unsolved crime (serial Killer) in France for the past 30+ years it isn't going away. There have been investigators previously (20 years ago) who suspected that it might be a policeman, gendame, military or legionaire.
A gendarme is not a policeman BTW it is more of a civil soldier.
He was first a gendame and then became a motorcycle cop. He retired after a bad accident.
The place where he commited suicide was not rented but an apartment owned by him that he rented on Air BNB (that was his retirement income).
As to the man he murdered, Vérove was seeing the au pair who was a young 20 year old german girl. He had seen he the night before and was returning the keys to her the next day and he had found out that she was having an affair with her boss, that is why he killed them both and had tortured them. This crime was very different from his others and was not linked for almost a decade after they had his DNA.
He hunted for defensless girls 14 and under although the last victim was 19.
It is interesting that the half brother of the 11 year old Cecille that he murdered and who saw him in the elevator beforehand, grew up to become a biologist and told the police about DNA and that the family would pay for the testing but he was fobbed off. It wasn't until 10 years later that they carried out DNA testing and even then wouldn't tell the family the results.
It was years later that they then matched the girls rapes and murders with the double murder of the au pair and her boss.
They had looked at everything over and over and it is only when they realised that one of the 14 year olds that he had flashed his (warrent) tricolor card to, had read on it that he was a non comissioned officer that they finally were going through the 600 odd gendames around then one by one for DNA testing. they were going for yet another long shot that actually paid off.
His suicide note was to his wife and said that he had committed terrible crimes and that he had changed because of her.
It is quite certtain that they will now go through his life with a fine tooth comb and try and find out as much as possible. there is no way this will be swept under the carpet. Also from France being so behind on the DNA front they are now going to the forefront. It is no doubt that when he stopped in 1996 he was aware that there was DNA at the scenes and they would possibly come after him becaus ethey were starting to think that they would take all male DNA profiles in his age group across the whole of France.
 
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Kurve

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I have just finished reading the long series published by the paper 'Les Jours'. Had to pay a euro in subscription fees but it was worth it for the detail that isnt anywhere else and this was a 12 part series before the solution of the crime. It has been an open case for the past 15 years and being worked on continously. France has not had a DNA data base until much later than Britain.
Watch Netflix 'The women and the murderer' for background on the DNA data base.
This case will not be burried and they are now going over a lot of cold cases in the areas that he moved around in.
This was the most famous unsolved crime (serial Killer) in France for the past 30+ years it isn't going away. There have been investigators previously (20 years ago) who suspected that it might be a policeman, gendame, military or legionaire.
A gendarme is not a policeman BTW it is more of a civil soldier.
He was first a gendame and then became a motorcycle cop. He retired after a bad accident.
The place where he commited suicide was not rented but an apartment owned by him that he rented on Air BNB (that was his retirement income).
As to the man he murdered, Vérove was seeing the au pair who was a young 20 year old german girl. He had seen he the night before and was returning the keys to her the next day and he had found out that she was having an affair with her boss, that is why he killed them both and had tortured them. This crime was very different from his others and was not linked for almost a decade after they had his DNA.
He hunted for defensless girls 14 and under although the last victim was 19.
It is interesting that the half brother of the 11 year old Cecille that he murdered and who saw him in the elevator beforehand, grew up to become a biologist and told the police about DNA and that the family would pay for the testing but he was fobbed off. It wasn't until 10 years later that they carried out DNA testing and even then wouldn't tell the family the results.
It was years later that they then matched the girls rapes and murders with the double murder of the au pair and her boss.
They had looked at everything over and over and it is only when they realised that one of the 14 year olds that he had flashed his (warrent) tricolor card to, had read on it that he was a non comissioned officer that they finally were going through the 600 odd gendames around then one by one for DNA testing. they were going for yet another long shot that actually paid off.
His suicide note was to his wife and said that he had committed terrible crimes and that he had changed because of her.
It is quite certtain that they will now go through his life with a fine tooth comb and try and find out as much as possible. there is no way this will be swept under the carpet. Also from France being so behind on the DNA front they are now going to the forefront. It is no doubt that when he stopped in 1996 he was aware that there was DNA at the scenes and they would possibly come after him becaus ethey were starting to think that they would take all male DNA profiles in his age group across the whole of France.
Thanks Pamcake, very interesting. So through the investigation into the au pair and her boss being murdered, his name never came up? I also never realised France was so far behind in the use of DNA to help solve crime.

Definitely one to watch and see what else comes up here.
 

BFew

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I have just finished reading the long series published by the paper 'Les Jours'. Had to pay a euro in subscription fees but it was worth it for the detail that isnt anywhere else and this was a 12 part series before the solution of the crime.
Here it is.
There appears to be a 13th episode added when the crime was solved recently.

The Episode 1 article is at

Screen Shot 2021-10-02 at 7.44.15 pm.png


 

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Pamcake1

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With the Marais murders, which is the au pair and boss; no Kurve his name never came up. The Au pair had 2 note books that listed all the men, names and adresses, that she had slept with in France. There were 30 of them. they tracked down 29 of them. the one they couldn't track was a false name and address. The name was made up from the book Oblamov and the address when they went there was a squat. But the interesting. thing was that the address had previously been a photographic studio for police/service identity cards. That was the slim clue that this was possibly someone who was related somehow to the police/services.
The other clues that eventually pointed them to the clue that it was a policeman/authority figure was the use of equipment (utility belt, handcuffs, warrent card and gun....they always thought the gun was a fake). There were 2 14 year old girls that escaped. they were approached by him in the same building. The first was bailed up and asked for her identity card (it is the law in France that you must carry your identity card at all times, if not, they can lock you up for 24 hours no questions asked) this was in front of the concierge. He took her up to her apartment but her mother was home and she was suspicious so he left, tthen went down and found another 14 year old and tried again with the same ruse, she told him to bugger off and ran. It was one of these girls that spotted the clue of him being a non comissioned officer on the Tricolour (warrent) card.
In hindsight another clue was the 19 year old said he smelt as did the brother of Cecille also had sad he smelt, neither of them could pin down what the smell was until a longtime later. At first they said it was the smell of a gardener, so the police investigated all gardeners working in Paris ( a lot of work over years) finally the witnesses identified the smell as horses/stables. The Gendames have horses and Vérove was training as a gendame at this time.
 

Pamcake1

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Here it is.
There appears to be a 13th episode added when the crime was solved recently.

The Episode 1 article is at
Yes, that is what I have read. You can get one episode for free so most people will probably read the last one. I was interested in the whole case so subscribed and read it all. The translation is pretty excreable but that is how it is. People will be a bit confused by the direct translation as the gendering of particulars often reads as him instead of her. Amusinlgly identikit photos are called Robot Portraits. Alnd when they are talking about 'chickens' they are translating Poule which is used as a diminutive like we would use 'punters' or 'guys'.
Also it needs to be said that people need to realise that the judicial system and investigation processes are not the same as English law. One because once they arrest you , you are then presumed guilty until proved innocent and two because the magistrate leads the investigation, directing the dectectives and suppenoring witnesses, records etc.
If you are interested in French crime the best show to watch is Spiral (Original title Engrenages which means Gears aka wheels within wheels) all seasons are on SBS on demand and it is a brilliant show, well worth it.
I had a recent discussion with a friend who said but there are very few serial killers in france...au contraire...you only have to google the wikipedia page of French serial killers to see there are quite some. A world of Gaelic crime is out there waiting to be explored. Its like a paraell world undiscovered because most 'crime sleuths' are focused on a very narrow track.
Most people who go to France have never been outside of the periferique (the banlieue) of Paris and seen how most Parisians live and what a contrast it is to the tourist brochures.
And lastly I will posit here that back in the 90's there was a poor Australian girl who was murdered in Paris and dumped in a sleeping bag in the banlieue. This murder as far as I know has never been solved. A bientot.(see you later) [/QUOTE]
 
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Pamcake1

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Thanks Pamcake, very interesting. So through the investigation into the au pair and her boss being murdered, his name never came up? I also never realised France was so far behind in the use of DNA to help solve crime.

Definitely one to watch and see what else comes up here.
I have replied but I forgot to attach it, see above. Also yes France was way behind. The French also have tried to get everyones DNA, as in the whole populations, for a DNA bank but have been taken to the Euro court in Brussels and lost the case. They went from zero to over reach very quickly.
 

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Latest news articles;

 

Kurve

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With the Marais murders, which is the au pair and boss; no Kurve his name never came up. The Au pair had 2 note books that listed all the men, names and adresses, that she had slept with in France. There were 30 of them. they tracked down 29 of them. the one they couldn't track was a false name and address. The name was made up from the book Oblamov and the address when they went there was a squat. But the interesting. thing was that the address had previously been a photographic studio for police/service identity cards.
Okay, so I was thinking about this and the way he was operating. That he gave the au pair, the girl he was having an affair with a false name and address is really interesting.
 

BFew

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he gave the au pair, the girl he was having an affair with a false name
Some more info on the false name from a discredited (by Pamcake1) Reddit thread from 4 years ago titled
'French serial killer never found despite picture and DNA'
(I've now removed the link to this Reddit as it results in way to much space in this post)

'The police checked all the names in her notebook and met all the guys but Elie was the only one that they couldn't find.'
'The police didn't seem to think about prostitution.'
'The killer and the girl met 6 months before the murders.'

'Two 13yo girls were asked by a "cop" their ID in the street in 1987. He followed them home, pretended to write down things as they saw the janitor and followed one of them to her apartment but her mother was home. He quickly checked her ID and left. Those teenagers received anonymous letters. They'd been asked to place their answer behind the book Oblomov from Gontcharov (Folio) in a specific library. He said the book was wonderful and made him cried. It has been proved that Élie is the hero's name, according to a Russian translator. Ilya Ilitch Oblomov=> Ilya means Élie. In cyrillic, Gontcharov can be read as "Lourages". Knowing Irgmard was German she probably meant Élie Lourages when she wrote Élie Louringe (the pronunciation is almost the same.)


'first published in 1859.'

'Oblomov is a young, generous nobleman who seems incapable of making important decisions or undertaking any significant actions. Throughout the novel he rarely leaves his room or bed. In the first 50 pages, he manages only to move from his bed to a chair.The book was considered[by whom?] a satire of Russian intelligentsia.
The novel was popular when it came out'
 
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Pamcake1

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Almost all of the reddit information is wrong or confused. The geography part is total BS. Just confirms what I believe about reddit...false or fanciful info. The most succinct information is in the 13 part series I posted about. That will answer almost all questions, logically and truthfully. It is worth spending the 1 euro to read all of it. The geography is related to his training for the Gendames as the training base and dotrmitry are central to his attack areas in Paris and as for the last victim where he picked her up was close to the training ground for the motorcycle Police.
 
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Pamcake1

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Okay, so I was thinking about this and the way he was operating. That he gave the au pair, the girl he was having an affair with a false name and address is really interesting.
He was operating nefariously the whole way through obviously. I think we will find in the coming weeks more about his history/background etc as the journalists dig.
 

Pamcake1

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FYI there is a gap between his last known victim in 1994 and when he says in his suicide note that he stopped 1997. That means that there is a 3 year window of crime.
 
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BFew

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Almost all of the reddit information is wrong or confused. The geography part is total BS.
I've gone back and replaced the Reddit link with the title of the Reddit thread only.
And warned readers of this thread about the validity of the rest of the info in that Reddit thread, based on your advice.
Thx.
Suggest you follow suite with removing the Reddit link from your quote of my post :)
Merci.
Au revoir.
 

BFew

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Si l'affaire Claremont Serial Killer était en France, le jeune Bradley aurait probablement démissionné de France Télécom (Orange), rejoint la Gendarmerie nationale puis aurait récemment migré à Perth pour travailler pour Telstra ou WAPOL et tenter d'échapper à COVID-19. Il ne serait certainement pas supporter de la WCE et soutiendrait Carlton (Les Bleus).
 

Pamcake1

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Si l'affaire Claremont Serial Killer était en France, le jeune Bradley aurait probablement démissionné de France Télécom (Orange), rejoint la Gendarmerie nationale puis aurait récemment migré à Perth pour travailler pour Telstra ou WAPOL et tenter d'échapper à COVID-19. Il ne serait certainement pas supporter de la WCE et soutiendrait Carlton (Les Bleus).
Dit-il en riant de sa manche. Mais non, jeune Bradley n'aurait travaillé pour France Télécom et soutenu les cygnes de Sydney.
 

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