Do Collingwood need to enter a rebuild phase?

[Fadge]

Our side is one of the most balanced sides in the comp, its why we are competitive. All the players you mentioned have 3 or 4 years left, plenty of time to replace them with good free agents.

It's astounding that a poster would use the term 'not balanced' to describe our list.

Oh boy.

 

[HeathySure]

Who cares whether or not they were academy picks? In Brisbane's case they got good luck, but it still amounts to high quality youth through the draft, something Collingwood clearly lacks.

Brisbane "bottomed out" from 2010-2018. One of the reasons they started challenging again was... the draft. Finishing low on the ladder afforded them the opportunity to recruit players like McCluggage, Berry, Bailey, Rayner, all of whom have played important roles in their recent success.

Once again, suggesting the draft means nothing is incredibly stupid

sure, Junkley McCarthy Daniher Neale and Cameron had nothing to do with it lol Thats probably 4 of the most important players

 

[Corn Cobbers]

Good thing the calendar has ticked over to 2026, and they've excluded Martin's pre 2016 finals games. Not to mention just the single finals game post 2020.

He had a good peak but no longevity, guys like Goodes and Hodge played elite finals 7-8 years apart

 

[Count_Zero]

Our side is one of the most balanced sides in the comp, its why we are competitive. All the players you mentioned have 3 or 4 years left, plenty of time to replace them with good free agents.

This isnt a go at Collingwood but Hawks, Lions, and Freo have a more balanced list than Collingwood. I would also add Crows and Suns to that list as well.

 

[HeathySure]

This isnt a go at Collingwood but Hawks, Lions, and Freo have a more balanced list than Collingwood. I would also add Crows and Suns to that list as well.

yeah thats fair , I wouldnt say more balanced but just as balanced.

 

[Count_Zero]

yeah thats fair , I wouldnt say more balanced but just as balanced.

You guys are missing a key forward but I wouldnt say its a problem because of the way you play, its reminds me of Richmond in 2017 when they only had Riewoldt.

 

[grayfox9]

Our side is one of the most balanced sides in the comp, its why we are competitive. All the players you mentioned have 3 or 4 years left, plenty of time to replace them with good free agents.

Competitive just like Hawthorn were in 2018, Fremantle were in 2015. Didn't stop them from hitting a wall when their time came.

Hawthorn didnt have a generational player who was 23 to build around.

They believed they did at the time with Tom Mitchell, who was breaking all the disposal records and winning the brownlow.
Daicos is obviously a much better player than Mitchell, but he is still only one player in a squad of 22, and cannot single-handedly carry a team.

And you cannot be a shit coach if you win a flag with an ordinary on paper side. If Bevo left Dogs and we needed a coach i would want Bevo over anyone.

Not a cluey.

sure, Junkley McCarthy Daniher Neale and Cameron had nothing to do with it lol Thats probably 4 of the most important players

At this point, I can tell you are painfully illiterate. Nowhere at any point did I suggest trades are worthless.
Just because I'm disputing the idiotic claim that the "draft means nothing" does not mean I am preaching that trades mean nothing. Like christ, have reading comprehension standards dropped this much?

 

[Pleasedontfail11]

Hawthorn might be the only ground up rebuild to make finals.

Even Hawthorn don't have a huge amount of successful top 15 draft picks that has propelled them up the ladder. Their team is built around lower picks and even a few free agency/trades.
Who are the top picks?

Watson (looks good)
Day? (Hasn't helped much recently)
McKenzie (might be an okay player hard to say)
Ward? (Looked good this year but I wouldn't say he is a gun yet)

 

[grayfox9]

It is a bit of a get out of jail free card. As soon as you say you are rebuilding the expectation that you will win games falls away. But by the same token Essendon for example refuse to say that they are or they aren't and hover in mediocrity.

Collingwood's list is old, but they are still winning games. Finished top 4 again last year and made the prelim. Plenty of teams with more young talent did not.

When was the last time Geelong had a young team? Average age 27 and 3000 games of experience in last year's GF. 38 and 3800 in 2022. 28 and 3500 in 2020. 27 and 3200 in 2011. Even way back in 2007 it was 25 and 2500 which is comparable to Haw, Freo, GC, WB etc. now.

The only true advantage of young players is that they are free. Nick Daicos is a unicorn because he cost nothing and was a star from day one. Whether it's pick 1 or pick 75 you take them in the draft and pay them $150k for 2-3 years then keep them long term if they are any good. There are dozen or more former young Giants players running around in the comp for other teams. Fat lot of good it does GWS and GC adding young players that aren't there after 3-4 years.

If the AFL changed system overnight to something similar to what the NRL has then recruiting strategies would be thrown out the window. There are half a dozen players in the AA side who haven't been around long enough to be free agents. The reason players like that rarely move clubs is it's so difficult and costly to orchestrate. Why speculate on 18/19 year olds that look good at junior levels when you can just sign players who are already performing at AFL level?

Once again, I can point to one of the many examples of a club appearing to "still be winning games" and "making prelims" with an old list, only they were still on the brink of hitting the wall. My own club was a textbook example of this 10 years ago; top of the ladder in 2015, missed the finals in 2016 followed by a long stint at the bottom. Collingwood right now share a high degree of parity with Fremantle from 2015 in terms of squad demographic/age profile.

I already said Geelong were the exception. As a matter of fact, I would strongly argue their sustained success can be attributed to their outstanding drafting record and luck with father sons from 1999-2002. They were able to build such a strong team with youth acquired from that period that it helped them develop a collective drive and winning culture from 2007-onward, and even with all those players retired, the culture has sustained itself. Being able to recruit Patrick Dangerfield and Jeremy Cameron helps too. For all the talk about Collingwood being a big club, I don't think they've traded in even a single player of that caliber.

The only true advantage of young players is that they are free.

What a silly post.

 

[CarmenSandiego]

He is only 26, we've got him signed for years to come and is truly a freak talent. No need to rush him back, he will have a reduced role this year but I don't see why he wouldn't stay with the pies. I tell you what we aren't trading him thats for sure.

Every one of his teammates hate him & don’t want him at the club.

True story.

 

[Fadge]

Every one of his teammates hate him & don’t want him at the club.

True story.

'Every one'...

Yeah, likely story.

 

[Cyclops]

Sure im over egging it and we will fall one day. Im responding to the posts suggesting only scorched earth rebuilds work.

We have track record for developing steak knives and rookies and MSD specials.

….always thought he could’ve been a very good Captain after Pendlebury.

Thats a fair call, Moore is a "captain type" like Pendles but Crisp is in the Maxwell/Tony Shaw tradition.

Hes a very Collingwood type, we hype the arse off him ofc, some under rate him, but he's all about hard work.

 

[HeathySure]

Competitive just like Hawthorn were in 2018, Fremantle were in 2015. Didn't stop them from hitting a wall when their time came.


They believed they did at the time with Tom Mitchell, who was breaking all the disposal records and winning the brownlow.
Daicos is obviously a much better player than Mitchell, but he is still only one player in a squad of 22, and cannot single-handedly carry a team.


Not a cluey.


At this point, I can tell you are painfully illiterate. Nowhere at any point did I suggest trades are worthless.
Just because I'm disputing the idiotic claim that the "draft means nothing" does not mean I am preaching that trades mean nothing. Like christ, have reading comprehension standards dropped this much?

why did you change your name Adam? 500 posts under the other name not enough for you?

 

[Denno]

Checkers is addition by subtraction - he was unbelieveably washed up last season. Jamie Elliot is actually our key forward and you can dislike it as much as you want but the results speak for themselves. A forward line of Elliot-Hill-Mcreery-Schulz-Mcstay-Membrey is potent asf.

Lol - that's why you finished 8th in points for last year, I guess.

McCreery kicked a grand total of 6 goals last year.

You'd get pretty long odds on Elliott backing up with a similar season again, too.

Our midfield of Nick,JDG,Steele,Pendles,Jack Crisp and others is incredibly potent too. Those are some of the greatest finals performers ever right there.

Maybe 5 years ago.

3 (arguably 4) are past their best.

Depth is thin.

You wouldn't want Daicos to miss an extended period.

Backline anchored by Moore, Quaynor, Maynard, Houston, J.Daicos is ****ing good, all of those players have AA blazers and i am not even including Howe because he has been so injured lately.

Backline is clearly the strength (based on points against), but Houston was a shadow of the player he's been, with Moore not far behind him.

It remains to be seen if Moore can get back to the player he was when Murphy was in the side also.

The team is stacked. Ned Long is a really, really good player too. Brisbane have had lighting strike everywhere so will be difficult to beat for the next 6+ at a minimum, but the pies are the only side to consistently beat them or get close in finals.

Edit: Darcy Cameron was the best ruckman in the comp last year and re-signed for a few more years much cheaper than he would have gotten at West Coast. Our team is elite, our coach is elite and we have a lot of natural benefits being a massive melbourne club.

Might just leave it there. Hyperbole has clearly gone into overdrive.

 

[Robroy22]

why did you change your name Adam? 500 posts under the other name not enough for you?

has Adam/Jimmy O'Dea ... changed his name AGAIN?

Crikey....is trolling that important that you have to keep changing your name on here just to keep getting some jollies?

 

[Mynamesinuse]

has Adam/Jimmy O'Dea ... changed his name AGAIN?

Crikey....is trolling that important that you have to keep changing your name on here just to keep getting some jollies?

All posts that are factual aren’t me.

 

[DaicosDisciple35]

Lol - that's why you finished 8th in points for last year, I guess.

McCreery kicked a grand total of 6 goals last year.

You'd get pretty long odds on Elliott backing up with a similar season again, too.



Maybe 5 years ago.

3 (arguably 4) are past their best.

Depth is thin.

You wouldn't want Daicos to miss an extended period.



Backline is clearly the strength (based on points against), but Houston was a shadow of the player he's been, with Moore not far behind him.

It remains to be seen if Moore can get back to the player he was when Murphy was in the side also.



Might just leave it there. Hyperbole has clearly gone into overdrive.

Mcreery dealt with injury last year, Jamie is one of the greatest of all time.

No shit we wouldn't want Daicos to miss games, great insight!

Moore was near BOG in the final against Adl last year, I think that question has been answered. Houston with more time in the system is expected to improve.

Dangerfield is older than most of those guys and was managed well, then won a prelim off his own boot. It's a different league now and and the best players play longer.

 

[txbyhull]

Jamie is one of the greatest of all time.

What a diabolical take

 

[DaicosDisciple35]

What a diabolical take

All you need to do is watch a career highlights package to understand why he is one of the GOAT small forwards.

Let alone how many game winning goals including one of the most famous goals after the siren to understand his greatness. He has some of the greatest screamers ever too.

Shows your bad faith engagement trying to deny the obvious.

 

[DaicosDisciple35]

Lol - that's why you finished 8th in points for last year, I guess.

McCreery kicked a grand total of 6 goals last year.

You'd get pretty long odds on Elliott backing up with a similar season again, too.



Maybe 5 years ago.

3 (arguably 4) are past their best.

Depth is thin.

You wouldn't want Daicos to miss an extended period.



Backline is clearly the strength (based on points against), but Houston was a shadow of the player he's been, with Moore not far behind him.

It remains to be seen if Moore can get back to the player he was when Murphy was in the side also.



Might just leave it there. Hyperbole has clearly gone into overdrive.

"Might just leave it there" is a great argument.

 

[txbyhull]

All you need to do is watch a career highlights package to understand why he is one of the GOAT small forwards.

Let alone how many game winning goals including one of the most famous goals after the siren to understand his greatness. He has some of the greatest screamers ever too.

Shows your bad faith engagement trying to deny the obvious.

How do you feel about Jamie Cripps

edit: basing your GOAT calls on highlights packages is devious work, and of course it is bad faith engagement I think you said something silly

 

[Fadge]

How do you feel about Jamie Cripps

LOLOL.

Awesome comparison to Jamie Elliott.

The only thing they have in common is their Christian name...

 

[DaicosDisciple35]

How do you feel about Jamie Cripps

edit: basing your GOAT calls on highlights packages is devious work, and of course it is bad faith engagement I think you said something silly

How about kicking 60 goals last year? I could go back and forth on stats forever but his impact, clutch gene, finals record and forward pressure put him in the conversation without doubt.

 

[txbyhull]

LOLOL.

Awesome comparison to Jamie Elliott.

The only thing they have in common is their Christian name...

exactly my point, similar career averages and yet ones apparently the goat.

 

[txbyhull]

How about kicking 60 goals last year? I could go back and forth on stats forever but his impact, clutch gene, finals record and forward pressure put him in the conversation without doubt.

Didn’t realise we were going off just 1 year