Do Collingwood need to enter a rebuild phase?

[Sherbert99]

Sidey seemed alright to me last night a lesser extent Pendles who had an ok cameo role against the Crows Crisp i think has had a good start to the year maybe even exceeded expectations a little

They look good when the ball is in their hands.

The question is if they can keep up with the faster, younger, fitter teams.
Couldn't keep up with Adelaide's run.
This is what happens when you have too many old players in one team.

 

[Sherbert99]

Bit of money in the kitty with the Grundy and Treliar contracts up.

That's just about every team. Even the Bulldogs have $1.7m ready to offer Butters at the end of the year.

Need a lot more than money to sell your club to the best players. They will be thinking about their chances of winning a flag. That's why Tom Lynch took unders to come to us.

In St Kilda's case it's because they were overpaying. No other club was going to offer De Koning $1.7m a year.

 

[nineteen eighty]

We lost by 14 points to last years minor premiers because of a dumb mistake by McStay where Adelaide kicked 5 goals in the next 10 minutes.
We made dumb stand rule mistakes multiple times in the last 2 weeks too, that will be fixed by Fly during the bye. Doom sayers can keep doom saying. we will be fine

Collingwood struggled last year to kick a winning score...especially in the second half of the year. You were mid table last year for points scored and the worst of the finalists. You have regressed this year. After 2 games, it is evident that Collingwood will struggle to kick a winning score...or at least over 80 points. That once upon a time would get you a win. In todays game, if you're not able to put a 100 on the board, you won't be competitive against the best teams. Relying on Elliott to play as a KPF whilst McStay and Membrey run around the park is not a formula for success.

That forward line needs to be rebuilt.

I think they've realised their contending phase is over. Buller and West (who hopefully gets his chance soon) is a look to the future. They need to hit the draft hard the next few years though to address some list gaps. Finishing around 7th-10th would be the worst of both worlds for them.

It's obvious that they need to draft hard. Problem they have is where do they get the picks from? They need to draft hard, the supporters keep banging on about free agency. My question is...where are you going to get the high picks from? Which players will you trade to get the picks? DeGoey? He's lost currency. Not sure who else. Maynard would be snapped up by all and sundry but there's no way he's going anywhere. Daicos? I don't think so.

 

[RAPPA]

Collingwood struggled last year to kick a winning score...especially in the second half of the year. You were mid table last year for points scored and the worst of the finalists. You have regressed this year. After 2 games, it is evident that Collingwood will struggle to kick a winning score...or at least over 80 points. That once upon a time would get you a win. In todays game, if you're not able to put a 100 on the board, you won't be competitive against the best teams. Relying on Elliott to play as a KPF whilst McStay and Membrey run around the park is not a formula for success.

That forward line needs to be rebuilt.




It's obvious that they need to draft hard. Problem they have is where do they get the picks from? They need to draft hard, the supporters keep banging on about free agency. My question is...where are you going to get the high picks from? Which players will you trade to get the picks? DeGoey? He's lost currency. Not sure who else. Maynard would be snapped up by all and sundry but there's no way he's going anywhere. Daicos? I don't think so.

They won't draft hard. Their formula has rarely been to hit the draft. Look at their young cattle. They're trash. They'll try to load up on bringing in two or three premium players as the band-aid solution, and otherwise trade for ready made players. The problem though is nailing the premium players.

 

[Bluechip66]

We offered him 2 years Melbourne offered the same but on bigger money

But, but pies players don’t leave for more money! Just ask fadge.

 

[nineteen eighty]

They won't draft hard. Their formula has rarely been to hit the draft. Look at their young cattle. They're trash. They'll try to load up on bringing in two or three premium players as the band-aid solution, and otherwise trade for ready made players. The problem though is nailing the premium players.

I agree that in the past they have gone down this path and their coach has openly stated his preference for players over picks. Easier said than done. They simply don't have the draft picks to negotiate and to get those picks will require them giving up players. To that end, who will they give up for picks to then trade with?

I'm not saying they don't have some high end players because they obviously do. Simply who they would give up?

 

[Muddiemoose]

I agree that in the past they have gone down this path and their coach has openly stated his preference for players over picks. Easier said than done. They simply don't have the draft picks to negotiate and to get those picks will require them giving up players. To that end, who will they give up for picks to then trade with?

I'm not saying they don't have some high end players because they obviously do. Simply who they would give up?

Also think they probably have multiple issues that also makes it difficult

Sure they will probably be able to land one big free agent
But the two glaring issues right now are they need a dominant key forward and another dominant mid

Without fixing both they still won’t be a realistic finals threat, and that’s before we consider trying to fill the voids that players like Elliot will leave and experience that losing Pendles and Sideass

It will be like playing whack a mole where one thing gets sorted but new problems will be popping up

 

[RAPPA]

I agree that in the past they have gone down this path and their coach has openly stated his preference for players over picks. Easier said than done. They simply don't have the draft picks to negotiate and to get those picks will require them giving up players. To that end, who will they give up for picks to then trade with?

I'm not saying they don't have some high end players because they obviously do. Simply who they would give up?

I don't think they have much to give up that would garner some good picks.

There's no player on their list under 24, barring Nick, that has value. He won't go anywhere other than to Tasmania on a godfather offer.

McCreery, Quaynor and De Goey is who they'll have to dangle. Maybe Darcy Cameron.

Bobby Hill has baggage and won't get the value he would've attracted a year or so ago. Can't see them dumping Josh Daicos or any others they've brought in the last few years through trades / FA.

 

[HeathySure]

Collingwood struggled last year to kick a winning score...especially in the second half of the year. You were mid table last year for points scored and the worst of the finalists. You have regressed this year. After 2 games, it is evident that Collingwood will struggle to kick a winning score...or at least over 80 points. That once upon a time would get you a win. In todays game, if you're not able to put a 100 on the board, you won't be competitive against the best teams. Relying on Elliott to play as a KPF whilst McStay and Membrey run around the park is not a formula for success.

That forward line needs to be rebuilt.




It's obvious that they need to draft hard. Problem they have is where do they get the picks from? They need to draft hard, the supporters keep banging on about free agency. My question is...where are you going to get the high picks from? Which players will you trade to get the picks? DeGoey? He's lost currency. Not sure who else. Maynard would be snapped up by all and sundry but there's no way he's going anywhere. Daicos? I don't think so.

Yeah its 2 games in and i heard all these arguments after 1 game last year too.

I will put money on that the scores will come done majorly within 4 weeks as they always do because the coaches work things out defensively very quickly.

We also were better than the Crows in the last quarter after we settled but ran out of time despite all of our forwards being impotent IN THIS GAME.

Since Macrae has been coach we have won ordinarily against bad sides and thrashed good sides. We also lost to bad sides too, it happens, its the game/ Everyone loves t over react but its a long season and we are still 1 and 1.

We will be fine.

 

[Sherbert99]

Yeah its 2 games in and i heard all these arguments after 1 game last year too.

I will put money on that the scores will come done majorly within 4 weeks as they always do because the coaches work things out defensively very quickly.

We also were better than the Crows in the last quarter after we settled but ran out of time despite all of our forwards being impotent IN THIS GAME.

Since Macrae has been coach we have won ordinarily against bad sides and thrashed good sides. We also lost to bad sides too, it happens, its the game/ Everyone loves t over react but its a long season and we are still 1 and 1.

We will be fine.

Could've said the exact same things about West Coast under Simpson, Richmond under Hardwick, Hawthorn under Clarkson, Fremantle under Lyon, etc.

The common denominator between all those clubs and Collingwood is that the youth isn't there

Can't rely on Pendlebury forever, the same way Fremantle couldn't rely on Pavlich forever. Same with Hawthorn with Burgoyne, etc.

Time to accept reality.

 

[HeathySure]

Could've said the exact same things about West Coast under Simpson, Richmond under Hardwick, Hawthorn under Clarkson, Fremantle under Lyon, etc.

The common denominator between all those clubs and Collingwood is that the youth isn't there

Can't rely on Pendlebury forever, the same way Fremantle couldn't rely on Pavlich forever. Same with Hawthorn with Burgoyne, etc.

Time to accept reality.

You forgot Cats under Scott.

We have two. the best player in the league who we put role players around, they dont need to be stars just do their roles, and the best coach in the league by far who runs rings around most other coaches.

 

[Sherbert99]

You forgot Cats under Scott.

We have two. the best player in the league who we put role players around, they dont need to be stars just do their roles, and the best coach in the league by far who runs rings around most other coaches.

Geelong kept going by picking up Dangerfield and then Cameron. They still rely on those two and are going to have big problems if and when they retire or get injured.

When is the last time Collingwood traded in a player of this caliber?

Collingwood have needed a good key-forward badly after last year, yet all they could bring in was Jack Buller.

Are we now allocating the label of "role-player" to Pendlebury? He singlehandedly dragged you over the line against a down & out Melbourne in the final round last year. It's hardly ideal to still be relying heavily on a 38 year old, particularly at a time where teams like the Gold Coast, Adelaide, Sydney and the Dogs are getting bigger, stronger, faster, and have at least two gun key forwards (as opposed to Collingwood's zero).

 

[timokane]

yes for this year mini rebuild then time to launch again in 2027 and 2028.
Got to start blooding youth now.
Lean times now.
Got the Pies in there in 9th or 10th and make wildcard and thats about it for 2026.
Take stock of what the list is then make the needed changes at seasons end.
Raft of changes expected at the Pies.
Then embark on getting back in the flag mix come 2028.
Level out first then come again.
Not expecting anything in 2026.
Make wildcard is a pass for the Pies in 2026.

 

[nineteen eighty]

Yeah its 2 games in and i heard all these arguments after 1 game last year too.

I will put money on that the scores will come done majorly within 4 weeks as they always do because the coaches work things out defensively very quickly.

We also were better than the Crows in the last quarter after we settled but ran out of time despite all of our forwards being impotent IN THIS GAME.

Since Macrae has been coach we have won ordinarily against bad sides and thrashed good sides. We also lost to bad sides too, it happens, its the game/ Everyone loves t over react but its a long season and we are still 1 and 1.

We will be fine.

Points for last year...mid table.

Regressed 2 games in this year to be 14th. Relying on average at best (and I really do mean average AT BEST) key forwards in McStay and Membrey to lead your forward line is a forward line that will go nowhere. McStay and Membrey ffs...c'mon no self respecting supporter can argue otherwise. Membrey is finished and what is McStay's best return in his career...mid 20's? His career average is less than 1 over 10+ years. He is a support ruck who can play as a forward. Similar to Brown back in the day for you. He is categorically NOT a key forward.

Struggled to kick a winning score last year with the worst points for compared to the other finalists. Disastrous back end of the season and won the final against Adelaide for one simple reason...Adelaide chocked!

I'll be back once we get to 6 games total and we can pick up this discussion.

And for the record, yes I agree you are well coached and I agree that having Daicos in the team ensures you are competitive with what is an average side.

 

[Fadge]

Points for last year...mid table.

Regressed 2 games in this year to be 14th. Relying on average at best (and I really do mean average AT BEST) key forwards in McStay and Membrey to lead your forward line is a forward line that will go nowhere. McStay and Membrey ffs...c'mon no self respecting supporter can argue otherwise. Membrey is finished and what is McStay's best return in his career...mid 20's? His career average is less than 1 over 10+ years. He is a support ruck who can play as a forward. Similar to Brown back in the day for you. He is categorically NOT a key forward.

Struggled to kick a winning score last year with the worst points for compared to the other finalists. Disastrous back end of the season and won the final against Adelaide for one simple reason...Adelaide chocked!

I'll be back once we get to 6 games total and we can pick up this discussion.

And for the record, yes I agree you are well coached and I agree that having Daicos in the team ensures you are competitive with what is an average side.

Respectively, I can't take the opinion of a poster who doesn't know the difference between chocking and choking seriously...

 

[txbyhull]

Respectively, I can't take the opinion of a poster who doesn't know the difference between chocking and choking seriously...

Respectively?

 

[RAPPA]

Respectively?

He respectively withdraws his comment.

 

[Sphynx]

Kane made a good and slightly hilarious (unintentional) point this morning on radio.

Said they were approaching an awkward period, as the Pies fanbase is accustomed to competing since the Malthouse era. Going out and unloading on FA's might not be the smartest play, they've also ignored the draft for years, which rarely works out. Even a side like Geelong eventually addressed it, thanks to the GC accelerating it.

It's also arguably the hardest ever time in the draft system era to rebuild given how compromised it is. You can easily drop down and be there for 5+ years, which Pies fans probably wont tolerate.

I found the hilarious part when he said "it's a real problem for the AFL HQ" inferring they need to look at the equality of the draft, if Collingwood do have to rebuild, because of the commercial impact it would have....

Lol...

It would totally be in line with the AFL's track record to go and reform the draft in time for Collingwood rebuild. Maybe start of R1 priority picks will be back, so they can replace Pendlebury like for like, then get rid of them again..

 

[Cyclops]

That's just about every team. Even the Bulldogs have $1.7m ready to offer Butters at the end of the year.

Need a lot more than money to sell your club to the best players. They will be thinking about their chances of winning a flag. That's why Tom Lynch took unders to come to us.

In St Kilda's case it's because they were overpaying. No other club was going to offer De Koning $1.7m a year.

You're saying Footscray was paying g $600-700k to other clubs last year?

Or "all clubs have a warvhest" whatever that means?

 

[nineteen eighty]

Respectively, I can't take the opinion of a poster who doesn't know the difference between chocking and choking seriously...

Better than cocked isn't it?

 

[Sherbert99]

You're saying Footscray was paying g $600-700k to other clubs last year?

Or "all clubs have a warvhest" whatever that means?

No. All the journos and ITKs are saying Footscray have that offer in front of Butters right now, and offered it last trade period but Port Power shut it down. Given they just moved Ugle-Hagan off their books it's hardly unrealistic to suggest they are in position to land a big fish.

 

[HeathySure]

Geelong kept going by picking up Dangerfield and then Cameron. They still rely on those two and are going to have big problems if and when they retire or get injured.

When is the last time Collingwood traded in a player of this caliber?

Collingwood have needed a good key-forward badly after last year, yet all they could bring in was Jack Buller.

Are we now allocating the label of "role-player" to Pendlebury? He singlehandedly dragged you over the line against a down & out Melbourne in the final round last year. It's hardly ideal to still be relying heavily on a 38 year old, particularly at a time where teams like the Gold Coast, Adelaide, Sydney and the Dogs are getting bigger, stronger, faster, and have at least two gun key forwards (as opposed to Collingwood's zero).

We have not had a top 5 list in forever but since 2022 we win. We had Frampton Oleg and some very ordinary players in 2023, last year the same all year and still finished 3rd. In 2024 there were times where we had 25 players to pick from hence having players like Jack Bytel playing but finished a respectable 9th.
I am not saying we are going to win multiple flags, but we will be around top 8 for a long while yet

 

[HeathySure]

i

Points for last year...mid table.

Regressed 2 games in this year to be 14th. Relying on average at best (and I really do mean average AT BEST) key forwards in McStay and Membrey to lead your forward line is a forward line that will go nowhere. McStay and Membrey ffs...c'mon no self respecting supporter can argue otherwise. Membrey is finished and what is McStay's best return in his career...mid 20's? His career average is less than 1 over 10+ years. He is a support ruck who can play as a forward. Similar to Brown back in the day for you. He is categorically NOT a key forward.

Struggled to kick a winning score last year with the worst points for compared to the other finalists. Disastrous back end of the season and won the final against Adelaide for one simple reason...Adelaide chocked!

I'll be back once we get to 6 games total and we can pick up this discussion.

And for the record, yes I agree you are well coached and I agree that having Daicos in the team ensures you are competitive with what is an average side.

I stopped reading after the first line, We finished 3rd, everything else you have said is redundent

 

[HeathySure]

Kane made a good and slightly hilarious (unintentional) point this morning on radio.

Said they were approaching an awkward period, as the Pies fanbase is accustomed to competing since the Malthouse era. Going out and unloading on FA's might not be the smartest play, they've also ignored the draft for years, which rarely works out. Even a side like Geelong eventually addressed it, thanks to the GC accelerating it.

It's also arguably the hardest ever time in the draft system era to rebuild given how compromised it is. You can easily drop down and be there for 5+ years, which Pies fans probably wont tolerate.

I found the hilarious part when he said "it's a real problem for the AFL HQ" inferring they need to look at the equality of the draft, if Collingwood do have to rebuild, because of the commercial impact it would have....

Lol...

It would totally be in line with the AFL's track record to go and reform the draft in time for Collingwood rebuild. Maybe start of R1 priority picks will be back, so they can replace Pendlebury like for like, then get rid of them again..

nice conspiracy theory. If this was correct then the Blues would have finished up there for the last 25 years because AFL headquarters wants sides with supporters playing finals, oh and the Bombers

 

[Sphynx]

Geelong kept going by picking up Dangerfield and then Cameron. They still rely on those two and are going to have big problems if and when they retire or get injured.

When is the last time Collingwood traded in a player of this caliber?

Collingwood have needed a good key-forward badly after last year, yet all they could bring in was Jack Buller.

Are we now allocating the label of "role-player" to Pendlebury? He singlehandedly dragged you over the line against a down & out Melbourne in the final round last year. It's hardly ideal to still be relying heavily on a 38 year old, particularly at a time where teams like the Gold Coast, Adelaide, Sydney and the Dogs are getting bigger, stronger, faster, and have at least two gun key forwards (as opposed to Collingwood's zero).

Dangerfield is barely a top 10 player for them anymore.

Would have been alot more relevant had you mentioned Bailey Smith.

Holmes, Miers, Dempsey, Atkins, Mannagh are all guys they have recently drafted and developed and are in their best 10

Despite getting the likes of Cameron and now Smith, they were still able to add the likes of O'Sullivan and Clark (jury still out) as top 10 picks.

They have done their usual out their ass recruiting with Humphries, Neale, Dempsey, Holmes etc.

Someone like Mitch Edwards was always a good pick for them.

They've naturally cycled good bargain recruitment at the draft to compliment their FA or trade recruits (with a fair bit of help from the GC along the way).

I suspect they are going to be a big player in the FA space in the next few seasons as well as probably try and hit the middle of the draft for 2-3 years.

Collingwood haven't nailed odd picks at draft anywhere like Geelong have in the last 5 or so years. Over half of their side weren't even drafted by them. They seemingly do their best work with role players at the trade table. That only works if you have a strong core though.