Do Collingwood need to enter a rebuild phase?

[doppleganger]

Hawkins and Cameron

Or

Buller and West

You have gone full circle.

Geelong were in a good list position in 2021 because they had a 33 yr old Tomahawk and 28 yr old Cameron.

 

[Mynamesinuse]

You have gone full circle.

Geelong were in a good list position in 2021 because they had a 33 yr old Tomahawk and 28 yr old Cameron.

They just recruited the best key forward in the AFL to play alongside the second best.

Not sure if that makes there list in bad shape.

 

[Worm4]

Billy Frampton played 3 games for us as first ruck in 23. He was very good.
We also have 2 other ruckman. Steene and Smit. Buller and McStay are also capable. If we are super desperate we could use Moore. We have a few options.

Buller has had 8 hit outs in 4 years. Not sure he should be included in your back up list

 

[doppleganger]

They just recruited the best key forward in the AFL to play alongside the second best.

Not sure if that makes there list in bad shape.

So now having 33 yr olds as key members of the oldest list in the competition is a good thing.

And a 25yr old rookie and kids who are yet to debut are what you consider talented youth.

 

[Fadge]

Hawkins and Cameron

Or

Buller and West

So hang on...

You're now not talking about Collingwood's youth (or lack of), you're now bringing up a 32 year old Tom Hawkins?

You are all over the shop.

 

[Mynamesinuse]

Buller has had 8 hit outs in 4 years. Not sure he should be included in your back up list

So now having 33 yr olds as key members of the oldest list in the competition is a good thing.

And a 25yr old rookie and kids who are yet to debut are what you consider talented youth.

Having the best key forward join arguably the best player is yes.

 

[Mynamesinuse]

So hang on...

You're now not talking about Collingwood's youth (or lack of), you're now bringing up a 32 year old Tom Hawkins?

You are all over the shop.

No we’re comparing lists.

Not that comparing means anything as players like Stengel don’t fall on your lap everyday.

 

[doppleganger]

Having the best key forward join arguably the best player is yes.

A clear example of an old list with poor youth ignoring the draft to instead stay in immediate premiership contention.

And 6 years later they are still contending.

 

[Mr Meow]

So they had 4 elite players under 29 at the time?

And you're including Atkins and Duncan at that time?

I mean, if they both qualify as 'elite' as at the end of 2020, I can give you 15 players on Collingwood's current list.

Fair enough on Atkins, but Duncan was one of the best wingmen/outside midfielders in the comp 2019-2020. Those seasons were as strong as Cam Guthrie and Mark Blicavs All Australian seasons.

Selwood, Hawkins, Dangerfield and Blicavs were crucial veterans at the end of 2020. But the latter 2 still had 6+ seasons ahead of them and the first 2 had their replacements drafted (Holmes + Neale). SDK had been recruited to replace Taylor. J.Henry was a young KPD getting ready to assume L.Henderson's role. Close took Ablett's forward pocket spot.

All of this and it still probably wouldn't have worked unless they could convert a second rounder (Tim Kelly) into a top 5-10 forward, then later again for the midfield with B.Smith.

Of the important Collingwood 30+ year olds, how many will still be playing in 6 years? And which ones have had their future replacements already drafted, who are expected to integrate into the best 23 over the next 2-3 seasons? Which stars of the comp are they going to acquire so cheaply?

 

[Mynamesinuse]

A clear example of an old list with poor youth ignoring the draft to instead stay in immediate premiership contention.

And 6 years later they are still contending.

Collingwood did neither.
Poor youth didn’t recruit a gun if we’re comparing.

Let’s pretend Collingwood and Gerlongs list are comparable 2021 Geelong and 2026 Collingwood.

Geelong get Cameron and Isaac Smith
Collingwood lose Miochek get Buller

 

[bungalow_bill]

Cats are the blueprint for rebuilding on the run. Not quite good enough to compete with the Lions team of high end talent, but still impressive.

 

[Mynamesinuse]

Cats are the blueprint for rebuilding on the run. Not quite good enough to compete with the Lions team of high end talent, but still impressive.

Not sure that’s correct

 

[Pleasedontfail11]

I

Cats are the blueprint for rebuilding on the run. Not quite good enough to compete with the Lions team of high end talent, but still impressive.

They beat you in the Qualifying final.

 

[doppleganger]

Collingwood did neither.
Poor youth didn’t recruit a gun if we’re comparing.

Let’s pretend Collingwood and Gerlongs list are comparable 2021 Geelong and 2026 Collingwood.

Geelong get Cameron and Isaac Smith
Collingwood lose Miochek get Buller

From 2020 to 2021 Geelong added Cameron, I.Smith and Higgins to actually get even older.

The tipping point and cliff was coming. It is inevitable when you keep ignoring the pointy end of the draft is what "experts" like yourself are saying.

But some 5 seasons later, still waiting for the Geelong cliff to arrive...

And the last time some experts were telling the Pies that they needed to rebuild was also back in 2020-21, after we botched our salary cap and had to let senior talent out the door...meant to be in for some lean years and needed to rebuild through the draft.

Meanwhile the experts keep talking about cliffs

 

[bungalow_bill]

They beat you in the Qualifying final.

Yes they did. Threw the kitchen sink at us and got the W. The GF was a more accurate reflection of the talent gulf between the teams. Also according to Browny a few of our players were ill leading up to the QF.

 

[HeathySure]

Geelong have always been great at identifying young talent that can’t be denied. They’re also not afraid to move on club champions to bring in young talent.

Ling
Chapman
Johnson
Duncan
Kelly

Just an example

we moved on 2 all australians and a rising star amongst others and paid other teams to play them

And won a flag

 

[Mynamesinuse]

we moved on 2 all australians and a rising star amongst others and paid other teams to play them

And won a flag

Geelong moved on a two time premiership ruckman

 

[Mynamesinuse]

Yes they did. Threw the kitchen sink at us and got the W. The GF was a more accurate reflection of the talent gulf between the teams. Also according to Browny a few of our players were ill leading up to the QF.

Until there best forward broke his arm it was game on.

 

[Mynamesinuse]

From 2020 to 2021 Geelong added Cameron, I.Smith and Higgins to actually get even older.

The tipping point and cliff was coming. It is inevitable when you keep ignoring the pointy end of the draft is what "experts" like yourself are saying.

But some 5 seasons later, still waiting for the Geelong cliff to arrive...

And the last time some experts were telling the Pies that they needed to rebuild was also back in 2020-21, after we botched our salary cap and had to let senior talent out the door...meant to be in for some lean years and needed to rebuild through the draft.

Meanwhile the experts keep talking about cliffs

If Geelong have Cameron

 

[HeathySure]

Geelong moved on a two time premiership ruckman

your initial point that we didnt move on players was just plain wrong

 

[HeathySure]

Until there best forward broke his arm it was game on.

and if Pendles didnt go down in the first minute we might have won the prelim. But it didnt happen and we lost. No point in dwelling on it and moving the goalposts like you are doing.

 

[HeathySure]

Fair enough on Atkins, but Duncan was one of the best wingmen/outside midfielders in the comp 2019-2020. Those seasons were as strong as Cam Guthrie and Mark Blicavs All Australian seasons.

Selwood, Hawkins, Dangerfield and Blicavs were crucial veterans at the end of 2020. But the latter 2 still had 6+ seasons ahead of them and the first 2 had their replacements drafted (Holmes + Neale). SDK had been recruited to replace Taylor. J.Henry was a young KPD getting ready to assume L.Henderson's role. Close took Ablett's forward pocket spot.

All of this and it still probably wouldn't have worked unless they could convert a second rounder (Tim Kelly) into a top 5-10 forward, then later again for the midfield with B.Smith.

Of the important Collingwood 30+ year olds, how many will still be playing in 6 years? And which ones have had their future replacements already drafted, who are expected to integrate into the best 23 over the next 2-3 seasons? Which stars of the comp are they going to acquire so cheaply?

its not even about how good the players Geelong and the Pies are getting,. its about whether they can do the role the coach wants well. And thats the type of player both of our teams are getting.

 

[VicBased]

Until there best forward broke his arm it was game on.

One player, even a gun, doesn't explain a 60 odd point flogging.
Their old guys ran out of legs.

 

[doppleganger]

your initial point that we didnt move on players was just plain wrong

Has the poor Saints buffoon got anything right ?

 

[Mynamesinuse]

your initial point that we didnt move on players was just plain wrong

Other than Cox and Mitchell who?