Do Geelong have the best home ground advantage in the AFL?

[tiger_tough]

Who gives a *, they're an easy kill when you meet them @ the G come finals time anyway.

 

[Partridge]

The original thread was shipped to the bay by Geelong mod after 10 minutes with a nasty message.

My father used to say, "if they think you're wrong, they'll provide reasons and debate, if they know you're right, they'll deflect, deflect, deflect"

Lots of deflecting by the 3 Geelong supporters

I'll add some thoughts from a 4th one.

To me, there are multiple statements about this subject, and they can all be true. Take your pick from the following:

1. Geelong probably should get 11 home games at Geelong. But we never have as long as I can remember. There have always been 1-3 games played at either the MCG, Waverley, or Docklands. Even Carlton for a while. We never used to complain about it. Not sure why some are so fixated on it now.
2. Should Geelong get to play home finals? Maybe, not really fussed either way. I do know it never bothered us remotely from 2007-2011 where we played our finals (they were all at the MCG incidentally - all 15 of them). Why it's suddenly a big deal is a mystery (actually it's not, but more on that later).
3. Geelong's home and away and finals records, as the stats indicate, match fairly closely what you would expect from teams of a given quality. When we've had a "good" team, we win most of our home games, and win our share of away games, with more losses interstate. When we had a "great" team, we won nearly all our home games, and nearly all everywhere else too. If you're good enough where you play is irrelevant.
4. There's no great conspiracy about our home ground advantage, it's just a quirk that has occurred because of history and geography. And now because of trying to fit 18 teams into 22 rounds there are absolutely anomalies with who plays there. It's not our fault. We happened to be the one non-Melbourne team in 1897 that got included in a "Melbourne" competition. Other teams decided to move away from their genuine home grounds, going back to Richmond (and don't forget, St.Kilda and North) in the 1960s and ever since. And the same goes for us and it goes for Richmond now. No one minded coming down to Geelong from 1964-2006 when we were frequently the butt of jokes. It became an issue once we were nearly unbeatable there. Just like Carlton in the mid-90s at Princes Park and to an extent Richmond now. I wonder what those three teams had in common. Very little to do with the ground and everything to do with how good a team they all were.
5. It is apparently a shocking injustice that Geelong are forced to play a final at the MCG against lower placed teams in the finals. This happened in 2019 in the Qualifying Final against Collingwood (we finished 1st, they finished 4th), and most appalling, in 2017 when we finished 2nd but had to play at Richmond's home ground (they finished 3rd). Those making this argument continually overlook one unpleasant fact - we did the exact same thing in 2016 with hardly any word at all (don't believe me; you shouldn't either, look it up). We finished 2nd, Hawthorn 3rd, and we played the Qualifying Final at the MCG. But we won, so obviously it wasn't unfair. Again, see 2007-2011. It wasn't unfair then either.
6. Yes apparently Richmond get to play around 14 games a year at their "home" ground, and this is a monstrous disadvantage to the rest of the competition. But mysteriously it was never a disadvantage before September 2017. They actually only played 11 games there in 2017, compared to a disgraceful 14 in both of 2015 and 2016. And they also got 7 straight games at the MCG to finish the 2019 season, I mean really, how can that be justified. Except of course, that they had to travel interstate the first week of the finals, where they thrashed Brisbane. I'm also trying to remember the outrage about Collingwood's run home in 2010 - they had a mere 11 straight games at the MCG to finish the season. Including finals. You can't bitch about one and not the other. If the number of games Richmond get at the MCG is unfair, that goes for all the other MCG tenants too. Especially Collingwood (incidentally, one of only two teams that hasn't played at Geelong in the last two decades. Even Carlton have done it recently).
7. There's a simple truth for Geelong. We've slipped a little as a team, through natural attrition as some stars depart (which is constant and inevitable), a combination of poor drafting and development, keeping too many injury prone players for far too long, and terrible trading. Our home ground masks this a lot during the home and away season, but we get continually exposed in finals. We're still a good team, but no longer great. And some fans really can't accept that sides we used to beat up on (especially Richmond) have dared to turn the tables on us. If you've been following sport for any length of time this is not unusual at all. It's one thing for idiotic supporters to bitch and moan about it, every club has them. It's way more disheartening when the club does it as well. We never used to be whingers at all. Now the impression is that Geelong as a club and supporters bitch about everything, whereas some of us would happily play a final in the Punt Road oval car park with witches hats. If we lose it means we're not good enough. Full stop. If you can't handle that tough.

 

[My Cotchin Rules]

I'll add some thoughts from a 4th one.

To me, there are multiple statements about this subject, and they can all be true. Take your pick from the following:

1. Geelong probably should get 11 home games at Geelong. But we never have as long as I can remember. There have always been 1-3 games played at either the MCG, Waverley, or Docklands. Even Carlton for a while. We never used to complain about it. Not sure why some are so fixated on it now.
2. Should Geelong get to play home finals? Maybe, not really fussed either way. I do know it never bothered us remotely from 2007-2011 where we played our finals (they were all at the MCG incidentally - all 15 of them). Why it's suddenly a big deal is a mystery (actually it's not, but more on that later).
3. Geelong's home and away and finals records, as the stats indicate, match fairly closely what you would expect from teams of a given quality. When we've had a "good" team, we win most of our home games, and win our share of away games, with more losses interstate. When we had a "great" team, we won nearly all our home games, and nearly all everywhere else too. If you're good enough where you play is irrelevant.
4. There's no great conspiracy about our home ground advantage, it's just a quirk that has occurred because of history and geography. And now because of trying to fit 18 teams into 22 rounds there are absolutely anomalies with who plays there. It's not our fault. We happened to be the one non-Melbourne team in 1897 that got included in a "Melbourne" competition. Other teams decided to move away from their genuine home grounds, going back to Richmond (and don't forget, St.Kilda and North) in the 1960s and ever since. And the same goes for us and it goes for Richmond now. No one minded coming down to Geelong from 1964-2006 when we were frequently the butt of jokes. It became an issue once we were nearly unbeatable there. Just like Carlton in the mid-90s at Princes Park and to an extent Richmond now. I wonder what those three teams had in common. Very little to do with the ground and everything to do with how good a team they all were.
5. It is apparently a shocking injustice that Geelong are forced to play a final at the MCG against lower placed teams in the finals. This happened in 2019 in the Qualifying Final against Collingwood (we finished 1st, they finished 4th), and most appalling, in 2017 when we finished 2nd but had to play at Richmond's home ground (they finished 3rd). Those making this argument continually overlook one unpleasant fact - we did the exact same thing in 2016 with hardly any word at all (don't believe me; you shouldn't either, look it up). We finished 2nd, Hawthorn 3rd, and we played the Qualifying Final at the MCG. But we won, so obviously it wasn't unfair. Again, see 2007-2011. It wasn't unfair then either.
6. Yes apparently Richmond get to play around 14 games a year at their "home" ground, and this is a monstrous disadvantage to the rest of the competition. But mysteriously it was never a disadvantage before September 2017. They actually only played 11 games there in 2017, compared to a disgraceful 14 in both of 2015 and 2016. And they also got 7 straight games at the MCG to finish the 2019 season, I mean really, how can that be justified. Except of course, that they had to travel interstate the first week of the finals, where they thrashed Brisbane. I'm also trying to remember the outrage about Collingwood's run home in 2010 - they had a mere 11 straight games at the MCG to finish the season. Including finals. You can't bitch about one and not the other. If the number of games Richmond get at the MCG is unfair, that goes for all the other MCG tenants too. Especially Collingwood (incidentally, one of only two teams that hasn't played at Geelong in the last two decades. Even Carlton have done it recently).
7. There's a simple truth for Geelong. We've slipped a little as a team, through natural attrition as some stars depart (which is constant and inevitable), a combination of poor drafting and development, keeping too many injury prone players for far too long, and terrible trading. Our home ground masks this a lot during the home and away season, but we get continually exposed in finals. We're still a good team, but no longer great. And some fans really can't accept that sides we used to beat up on (especially Richmond) have dared to turn the tables on us. If you've been following sport for any length of time this is not unusual at all. It's one thing for idiotic supporters to bitch and moan about it, every club has them. It's way more disheartening when the club does it as well. We never used to be whingers at all. Now the impression is that Geelong as a club and supporters bitch about everything, whereas some of us would happily play a final in the Punt Road oval car park with witches hats. If we lose it means we're not good enough. Full stop. If you can't handle that tough.

Wow did not expect this response from a cat supporter. Hats off to you for being genuinely un-bias. WC supporters should take note .
I agree people seem to only come down hard on the current successful teams. As you implied yourself, NO one bitched about Richmond (Mainly WC) when they were getting belted into submission for 35 years.

 

[Yojimbo]

I'll add some thoughts from a 4th one.

To me, there are multiple statements about this subject, and they can all be true. Take your pick from the following:

1. Geelong probably should get 11 home games at Geelong. But we never have as long as I can remember. There have always been 1-3 games played at either the MCG, Waverley, or Docklands. Even Carlton for a while. We never used to complain about it. Not sure why some are so fixated on it now.
2. Should Geelong get to play home finals? Maybe, not really fussed either way. I do know it never bothered us remotely from 2007-2011 where we played our finals (they were all at the MCG incidentally - all 15 of them). Why it's suddenly a big deal is a mystery (actually it's not, but more on that later).
3. Geelong's home and away and finals records, as the stats indicate, match fairly closely what you would expect from teams of a given quality. When we've had a "good" team, we win most of our home games, and win our share of away games, with more losses interstate. When we had a "great" team, we won nearly all our home games, and nearly all everywhere else too. If you're good enough where you play is irrelevant.
4. There's no great conspiracy about our home ground advantage, it's just a quirk that has occurred because of history and geography. And now because of trying to fit 18 teams into 22 rounds there are absolutely anomalies with who plays there. It's not our fault. We happened to be the one non-Melbourne team in 1897 that got included in a "Melbourne" competition. Other teams decided to move away from their genuine home grounds, going back to Richmond (and don't forget, St.Kilda and North) in the 1960s and ever since. And the same goes for us and it goes for Richmond now. No one minded coming down to Geelong from 1964-2006 when we were frequently the butt of jokes. It became an issue once we were nearly unbeatable there. Just like Carlton in the mid-90s at Princes Park and to an extent Richmond now. I wonder what those three teams had in common. Very little to do with the ground and everything to do with how good a team they all were.
5. It is apparently a shocking injustice that Geelong are forced to play a final at the MCG against lower placed teams in the finals. This happened in 2019 in the Qualifying Final against Collingwood (we finished 1st, they finished 4th), and most appalling, in 2017 when we finished 2nd but had to play at Richmond's home ground (they finished 3rd). Those making this argument continually overlook one unpleasant fact - we did the exact same thing in 2016 with hardly any word at all (don't believe me; you shouldn't either, look it up). We finished 2nd, Hawthorn 3rd, and we played the Qualifying Final at the MCG. But we won, so obviously it wasn't unfair. Again, see 2007-2011. It wasn't unfair then either.
6. Yes apparently Richmond get to play around 14 games a year at their "home" ground, and this is a monstrous disadvantage to the rest of the competition. But mysteriously it was never a disadvantage before September 2017. They actually only played 11 games there in 2017, compared to a disgraceful 14 in both of 2015 and 2016. And they also got 7 straight games at the MCG to finish the 2019 season, I mean really, how can that be justified. Except of course, that they had to travel interstate the first week of the finals, where they thrashed Brisbane. I'm also trying to remember the outrage about Collingwood's run home in 2010 - they had a mere 11 straight games at the MCG to finish the season. Including finals. You can't bitch about one and not the other. If the number of games Richmond get at the MCG is unfair, that goes for all the other MCG tenants too. Especially Collingwood (incidentally, one of only two teams that hasn't played at Geelong in the last two decades. Even Carlton have done it recently).
7. There's a simple truth for Geelong. We've slipped a little as a team, through natural attrition as some stars depart (which is constant and inevitable), a combination of poor drafting and development, keeping too many injury prone players for far too long, and terrible trading. Our home ground masks this a lot during the home and away season, but we get continually exposed in finals. We're still a good team, but no longer great. And some fans really can't accept that sides we used to beat up on (especially Richmond) have dared to turn the tables on us. If you've been following sport for any length of time this is not unusual at all. It's one thing for idiotic supporters to bitch and moan about it, every club has them. It's way more disheartening when the club does it as well. We never used to be whingers at all. Now the impression is that Geelong as a club and supporters bitch about everything, whereas some of us would happily play a final in the Punt Road oval car park with witches hats. If we lose it means we're not good enough. Full stop. If you can't handle that tough.

This post deserves a poem:

Like the gun men of the old west,
Loading up another cartridge,
The truth is ushered in,
As told by the partridge.

 

[Partridge]

Wow did not expect this response from a cat supporter. Hats off to you for being genuinely un-bias. WC supporters should take note .
I agree people seem to only come down hard on the current successful teams. As you implied yourself, NO one bitched about Richmond (Mainly WC) when they were getting belted into submission for 35 years.

Full disclosure to my weakness - I detest hypocrisy. I saw firsthand at games the how opinions on us - quality of team, how fair the fixture was, playing in Geelong - changed in successive seasons from 2006 to 2007. With pretty much the same playing list.*

I'll never forget Tim Lane bitching and moaning about how physical and brutal we were against a young Carlton team in 2008. Well tough s**t. We copped it for long enough.

(* - same thing happened with Brisbane from 1998 when they finished last to just a few years later.)

 

[JohnZ]

I'll add some thoughts from a 4th one.

To me, there are multiple statements about this subject, and they can all be true. Take your pick from the following:

1. Geelong probably should get 11 home games at Geelong. But we never have as long as I can remember. There have always been 1-3 games played at either the MCG, Waverley, or Docklands. Even Carlton for a while. We never used to complain about it. Not sure why some are so fixated on it now.
2. Should Geelong get to play home finals? Maybe, not really fussed either way. I do know it never bothered us remotely from 2007-2011 where we played our finals (they were all at the MCG incidentally - all 15 of them). Why it's suddenly a big deal is a mystery (actually it's not, but more on that later).
3. Geelong's home and away and finals records, as the stats indicate, match fairly closely what you would expect from teams of a given quality. When we've had a "good" team, we win most of our home games, and win our share of away games, with more losses interstate. When we had a "great" team, we won nearly all our home games, and nearly all everywhere else too. If you're good enough where you play is irrelevant.
4. There's no great conspiracy about our home ground advantage, it's just a quirk that has occurred because of history and geography. And now because of trying to fit 18 teams into 22 rounds there are absolutely anomalies with who plays there. It's not our fault. We happened to be the one non-Melbourne team in 1897 that got included in a "Melbourne" competition. Other teams decided to move away from their genuine home grounds, going back to Richmond (and don't forget, St.Kilda and North) in the 1960s and ever since. And the same goes for us and it goes for Richmond now. No one minded coming down to Geelong from 1964-2006 when we were frequently the butt of jokes. It became an issue once we were nearly unbeatable there. Just like Carlton in the mid-90s at Princes Park and to an extent Richmond now. I wonder what those three teams had in common. Very little to do with the ground and everything to do with how good a team they all were.
5. It is apparently a shocking injustice that Geelong are forced to play a final at the MCG against lower placed teams in the finals. This happened in 2019 in the Qualifying Final against Collingwood (we finished 1st, they finished 4th), and most appalling, in 2017 when we finished 2nd but had to play at Richmond's home ground (they finished 3rd). Those making this argument continually overlook one unpleasant fact - we did the exact same thing in 2016 with hardly any word at all (don't believe me; you shouldn't either, look it up). We finished 2nd, Hawthorn 3rd, and we played the Qualifying Final at the MCG. But we won, so obviously it wasn't unfair. Again, see 2007-2011. It wasn't unfair then either.
6. Yes apparently Richmond get to play around 14 games a year at their "home" ground, and this is a monstrous disadvantage to the rest of the competition. But mysteriously it was never a disadvantage before September 2017. They actually only played 11 games there in 2017, compared to a disgraceful 14 in both of 2015 and 2016. And they also got 7 straight games at the MCG to finish the 2019 season, I mean really, how can that be justified. Except of course, that they had to travel interstate the first week of the finals, where they thrashed Brisbane. I'm also trying to remember the outrage about Collingwood's run home in 2010 - they had a mere 11 straight games at the MCG to finish the season. Including finals. You can't bitch about one and not the other. If the number of games Richmond get at the MCG is unfair, that goes for all the other MCG tenants too. Especially Collingwood (incidentally, one of only two teams that hasn't played at Geelong in the last two decades. Even Carlton have done it recently).
7. There's a simple truth for Geelong. We've slipped a little as a team, through natural attrition as some stars depart (which is constant and inevitable), a combination of poor drafting and development, keeping too many injury prone players for far too long, and terrible trading. Our home ground masks this a lot during the home and away season, but we get continually exposed in finals. We're still a good team, but no longer great. And some fans really can't accept that sides we used to beat up on (especially Richmond) have dared to turn the tables on us. If you've been following sport for any length of time this is not unusual at all. It's one thing for idiotic supporters to bitch and moan about it, every club has them. It's way more disheartening when the club does it as well. We never used to be whingers at all. Now the impression is that Geelong as a club and supporters bitch about everything, whereas some of us would happily play a final in the Punt Road oval car park with witches hats. If we lose it means we're not good enough. Full stop. If you can't handle that tough.

1. We had full home games up until 1969. In 1970 VFL park opened and all clubs had to play 2 games at VFL park (1 home, 1 away). At the time the season went from 20 games to our current 22. From then until the introduction of West Coast we had a full H+A season. From then, with ground rationalisation etc it became murky where teams played.

2. The ground was admittedly small and very country. With all the money pumped into it, the community deserves some reward, as it's now as good as any other in the country. Back in the day, the MCG was a neutral venue for finals except for games against Melbourne (and then Richmond following their exit from punt rd in the 60s). Now every club plays finals at their home venue except Geelong and the three Marvel clubs (North, Dogs and Saints).

Basically, history has been allowed to stick where it's suited the AFL, and changes have been made where necessary. There's a reason Geelong hosted the Lions in a final at the MCG, and there's a reason why all interstate finals are played interstate now.

 

[mcgarnacle]

But no different to Collingwood being forced to play home games at Marvel against NM/WB/Stk...

Sure. Still in Melbourne city though isn't it? Fans on the Hurstbridge line just need to travel an extra couple of stops to Southern Cross.

Geelong playing an allocated home game against Collingwood or Richmond in Melbourne on the other hand....venue, crowd, etc....it's a Magpies/Tigers home game

 

[Tzatziki_Man]

I'll add some thoughts from a 4th one.

To me, there are multiple statements about this subject, and they can all be true. Take your pick from the following:

1. Geelong probably should get 11 home games at Geelong. But we never have as long as I can remember. There have always been 1-3 games played at either the MCG, Waverley, or Docklands. Even Carlton for a while. We never used to complain about it. Not sure why some are so fixated on it now.
2. Should Geelong get to play home finals? Maybe, not really fussed either way. I do know it never bothered us remotely from 2007-2011 where we played our finals (they were all at the MCG incidentally - all 15 of them). Why it's suddenly a big deal is a mystery (actually it's not, but more on that later).
3. Geelong's home and away and finals records, as the stats indicate, match fairly closely what you would expect from teams of a given quality. When we've had a "good" team, we win most of our home games, and win our share of away games, with more losses interstate. When we had a "great" team, we won nearly all our home games, and nearly all everywhere else too. If you're good enough where you play is irrelevant.
4. There's no great conspiracy about our home ground advantage, it's just a quirk that has occurred because of history and geography. And now because of trying to fit 18 teams into 22 rounds there are absolutely anomalies with who plays there. It's not our fault. We happened to be the one non-Melbourne team in 1897 that got included in a "Melbourne" competition. Other teams decided to move away from their genuine home grounds, going back to Richmond (and don't forget, St.Kilda and North) in the 1960s and ever since. And the same goes for us and it goes for Richmond now. No one minded coming down to Geelong from 1964-2006 when we were frequently the butt of jokes. It became an issue once we were nearly unbeatable there. Just like Carlton in the mid-90s at Princes Park and to an extent Richmond now. I wonder what those three teams had in common. Very little to do with the ground and everything to do with how good a team they all were.
5. It is apparently a shocking injustice that Geelong are forced to play a final at the MCG against lower placed teams in the finals. This happened in 2019 in the Qualifying Final against Collingwood (we finished 1st, they finished 4th), and most appalling, in 2017 when we finished 2nd but had to play at Richmond's home ground (they finished 3rd). Those making this argument continually overlook one unpleasant fact - we did the exact same thing in 2016 with hardly any word at all (don't believe me; you shouldn't either, look it up). We finished 2nd, Hawthorn 3rd, and we played the Qualifying Final at the MCG. But we won, so obviously it wasn't unfair. Again, see 2007-2011. It wasn't unfair then either.
6. Yes apparently Richmond get to play around 14 games a year at their "home" ground, and this is a monstrous disadvantage to the rest of the competition. But mysteriously it was never a disadvantage before September 2017. They actually only played 11 games there in 2017, compared to a disgraceful 14 in both of 2015 and 2016. And they also got 7 straight games at the MCG to finish the 2019 season, I mean really, how can that be justified. Except of course, that they had to travel interstate the first week of the finals, where they thrashed Brisbane. I'm also trying to remember the outrage about Collingwood's run home in 2010 - they had a mere 11 straight games at the MCG to finish the season. Including finals. You can't bitch about one and not the other. If the number of games Richmond get at the MCG is unfair, that goes for all the other MCG tenants too. Especially Collingwood (incidentally, one of only two teams that hasn't played at Geelong in the last two decades. Even Carlton have done it recently).
7. There's a simple truth for Geelong. We've slipped a little as a team, through natural attrition as some stars depart (which is constant and inevitable), a combination of poor drafting and development, keeping too many injury prone players for far too long, and terrible trading. Our home ground masks this a lot during the home and away season, but we get continually exposed in finals. We're still a good team, but no longer great. And some fans really can't accept that sides we used to beat up on (especially Richmond) have dared to turn the tables on us. If you've been following sport for any length of time this is not unusual at all. It's one thing for idiotic supporters to bitch and moan about it, every club has them. It's way more disheartening when the club does it as well. We never used to be whingers at all. Now the impression is that Geelong as a club and supporters bitch about everything, whereas some of us would happily play a final in the Punt Road oval car park with witches hats. If we lose it means we're not good enough. Full stop. If you can't handle that tough.

I respect this.

You sir, have made me like Geelong.

Also your clubs response to the membership situation made me like Geelong.

And also, self admittedly, I like driving down to Geelong, its a nice place on a beautiful summer day to go.

I can't argue with any of this, it's well thought out and fair and balanced.

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

The teams that play a vast majority of their games at the ground the finals and the GF is played have the biggest home ground advantage, anything else is just bluster.

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

I'll add some thoughts from a 4th one.

To me, there are multiple statements about this subject, and they can all be true. Take your pick from the following:

1. Geelong probably should get 11 home games at Geelong. But we never have as long as I can remember. There have always been 1-3 games played at either the MCG, Waverley, or Docklands. Even Carlton for a while. We never used to complain about it. Not sure why some are so fixated on it now.
2. Should Geelong get to play home finals? Maybe, not really fussed either way. I do know it never bothered us remotely from 2007-2011 where we played our finals (they were all at the MCG incidentally - all 15 of them). Why it's suddenly a big deal is a mystery (actually it's not, but more on that later).
3. Geelong's home and away and finals records, as the stats indicate, match fairly closely what you would expect from teams of a given quality. When we've had a "good" team, we win most of our home games, and win our share of away games, with more losses interstate. When we had a "great" team, we won nearly all our home games, and nearly all everywhere else too. If you're good enough where you play is irrelevant.
4. There's no great conspiracy about our home ground advantage, it's just a quirk that has occurred because of history and geography. And now because of trying to fit 18 teams into 22 rounds there are absolutely anomalies with who plays there. It's not our fault. We happened to be the one non-Melbourne team in 1897 that got included in a "Melbourne" competition. Other teams decided to move away from their genuine home grounds, going back to Richmond (and don't forget, St.Kilda and North) in the 1960s and ever since. And the same goes for us and it goes for Richmond now. No one minded coming down to Geelong from 1964-2006 when we were frequently the butt of jokes. It became an issue once we were nearly unbeatable there. Just like Carlton in the mid-90s at Princes Park and to an extent Richmond now. I wonder what those three teams had in common. Very little to do with the ground and everything to do with how good a team they all were.
5. It is apparently a shocking injustice that Geelong are forced to play a final at the MCG against lower placed teams in the finals. This happened in 2019 in the Qualifying Final against Collingwood (we finished 1st, they finished 4th), and most appalling, in 2017 when we finished 2nd but had to play at Richmond's home ground (they finished 3rd). Those making this argument continually overlook one unpleasant fact - we did the exact same thing in 2016 with hardly any word at all (don't believe me; you shouldn't either, look it up). We finished 2nd, Hawthorn 3rd, and we played the Qualifying Final at the MCG. But we won, so obviously it wasn't unfair. Again, see 2007-2011. It wasn't unfair then either.
6. Yes apparently Richmond get to play around 14 games a year at their "home" ground, and this is a monstrous disadvantage to the rest of the competition. But mysteriously it was never a disadvantage before September 2017. They actually only played 11 games there in 2017, compared to a disgraceful 14 in both of 2015 and 2016. And they also got 7 straight games at the MCG to finish the 2019 season, I mean really, how can that be justified. Except of course, that they had to travel interstate the first week of the finals, where they thrashed Brisbane. I'm also trying to remember the outrage about Collingwood's run home in 2010 - they had a mere 11 straight games at the MCG to finish the season. Including finals. You can't bitch about one and not the other. If the number of games Richmond get at the MCG is unfair, that goes for all the other MCG tenants too. Especially Collingwood (incidentally, one of only two teams that hasn't played at Geelong in the last two decades. Even Carlton have done it recently).
7. There's a simple truth for Geelong. We've slipped a little as a team, through natural attrition as some stars depart (which is constant and inevitable), a combination of poor drafting and development, keeping too many injury prone players for far too long, and terrible trading. Our home ground masks this a lot during the home and away season, but we get continually exposed in finals. We're still a good team, but no longer great. And some fans really can't accept that sides we used to beat up on (especially Richmond) have dared to turn the tables on us. If you've been following sport for any length of time this is not unusual at all. It's one thing for idiotic supporters to bitch and moan about it, every club has them. It's way more disheartening when the club does it as well. We never used to be whingers at all. Now the impression is that Geelong as a club and supporters bitch about everything, whereas some of us would happily play a final in the Punt Road oval car park with witches hats. If we lose it means we're not good enough. Full stop. If you can't handle that tough.

Probably the best post I've ever read on this board. Kudos.

Our home ground was never an issue when we weren't a good team.

 

[Seeds]

The constant I hear from interstate supporters is how Victorian clubs have a distinct home ground advantage when playing a Grand Final. I hear about travel time on planes.

The constant I hear from Victorians is how interstate teams get to play on the grounds they train, share with one one other tenant, max! Which gives them a distinct advantage to clock wins during the home and away.

They (we) all gloss over a few key facts,

1. Whilst Fremantle share a home ground with West Coast, they have an advantage to train and play on a field 16 others access at most, twice a year. Making it vastly easier to tske advantage of home field advantage to win matches throughout the season, much harder to win Grand final day.

2. Collingwood share the same home ground with 9 other clubs, and whilst clubs like Essendon and the Saints aren't technically residents of the MCG, they play their enough to offset any advantage Collingwood would have over the venue.

3. Geelong is merely a city by name, it's dwarfed in size by Gold Coast, Newcastle, Wollongong, etc. The 'city' in itself is merely a one hour drive on the highway.

No one complains Melbourne play all the home games at the G, and no one did for Richmond from 1983-2016. It only becomes an issue whrn the team is successful, and far too much credit is placed on the 'favourable' fixture than the quality of the team. When Melbourne do come good, people will begin complaining about an advantage they clearly don't have.

Whilst interstate and Victorian supporters squabble in a simplistic and unsophiscated manner (me included), one club gets away with the free pass of all free passes.

Lets look at Geelong
- Play frequently at the MCG for familiarity of the surface? (YES.) They share the same advantage Victorian clubs have over the interstate.

- Play frequently on the home ground they train on, one they share with one one tenant. (YES.) They share the same advantage interstate clubs have over Victorian teams. An advantage thst doesn't help in finals, but helps during the home and away.


Much was made of Geelong's insistence to play their home finals at their home ground, but besides the fans being locked out, the AFL promising a home final in their home state, not home ground and the sheer money lost by all. Geelong didn't once complain playing Melbourne or Richmond at the MCG, until they began losing. Infact, much has been made of Richmond's success agaisnt Geelong in finals at the G, but let's not forget until Richmond's win over Geelong in 2017, The Tigers hadnt beaten Geelong at the MCG since 1999!!


Now, on this day, Geelong are urging the AFL to play all their home games at the Cattery once again, why can't the Bulldogs play at Whitten? Carlton at ikon? What about hawthorn at Waverly? Could you Guess how many more wins the Bulldogs would have this season if they played Whitten Oval? Geelong get this, every, single, year. In fact, they don't lose at the Cattery, how could you? Home crowd, inability of opposition to even get a seat and ground dimensions unlike any surface.

Troll thread belongs in the bay.

Funny how no dicussion on crowds or game played is brought up. And and hpur from the mcg to centre of geelong.

Troll thread.

 

[kidkenobi]

I'll add some thoughts from a 4th one.

To me, there are multiple statements about this subject, and they can all be true. Take your pick from the following:

1. Geelong probably should get 11 home games at Geelong. But we never have as long as I can remember. There have always been 1-3 games played at either the MCG, Waverley, or Docklands. Even Carlton for a while. We never used to complain about it. Not sure why some are so fixated on it now.
2. Should Geelong get to play home finals? Maybe, not really fussed either way. I do know it never bothered us remotely from 2007-2011 where we played our finals (they were all at the MCG incidentally - all 15 of them). Why it's suddenly a big deal is a mystery (actually it's not, but more on that later).
3. Geelong's home and away and finals records, as the stats indicate, match fairly closely what you would expect from teams of a given quality. When we've had a "good" team, we win most of our home games, and win our share of away games, with more losses interstate. When we had a "great" team, we won nearly all our home games, and nearly all everywhere else too. If you're good enough where you play is irrelevant.
4. There's no great conspiracy about our home ground advantage, it's just a quirk that has occurred because of history and geography. And now because of trying to fit 18 teams into 22 rounds there are absolutely anomalies with who plays there. It's not our fault. We happened to be the one non-Melbourne team in 1897 that got included in a "Melbourne" competition. Other teams decided to move away from their genuine home grounds, going back to Richmond (and don't forget, St.Kilda and North) in the 1960s and ever since. And the same goes for us and it goes for Richmond now. No one minded coming down to Geelong from 1964-2006 when we were frequently the butt of jokes. It became an issue once we were nearly unbeatable there. Just like Carlton in the mid-90s at Princes Park and to an extent Richmond now. I wonder what those three teams had in common. Very little to do with the ground and everything to do with how good a team they all were.
5. It is apparently a shocking injustice that Geelong are forced to play a final at the MCG against lower placed teams in the finals. This happened in 2019 in the Qualifying Final against Collingwood (we finished 1st, they finished 4th), and most appalling, in 2017 when we finished 2nd but had to play at Richmond's home ground (they finished 3rd). Those making this argument continually overlook one unpleasant fact - we did the exact same thing in 2016 with hardly any word at all (don't believe me; you shouldn't either, look it up). We finished 2nd, Hawthorn 3rd, and we played the Qualifying Final at the MCG. But we won, so obviously it wasn't unfair. Again, see 2007-2011. It wasn't unfair then either.
6. Yes apparently Richmond get to play around 14 games a year at their "home" ground, and this is a monstrous disadvantage to the rest of the competition. But mysteriously it was never a disadvantage before September 2017. They actually only played 11 games there in 2017, compared to a disgraceful 14 in both of 2015 and 2016. And they also got 7 straight games at the MCG to finish the 2019 season, I mean really, how can that be justified. Except of course, that they had to travel interstate the first week of the finals, where they thrashed Brisbane. I'm also trying to remember the outrage about Collingwood's run home in 2010 - they had a mere 11 straight games at the MCG to finish the season. Including finals. You can't bitch about one and not the other. If the number of games Richmond get at the MCG is unfair, that goes for all the other MCG tenants too. Especially Collingwood (incidentally, one of only two teams that hasn't played at Geelong in the last two decades. Even Carlton have done it recently).
7. There's a simple truth for Geelong. We've slipped a little as a team, through natural attrition as some stars depart (which is constant and inevitable), a combination of poor drafting and development, keeping too many injury prone players for far too long, and terrible trading. Our home ground masks this a lot during the home and away season, but we get continually exposed in finals. We're still a good team, but no longer great. And some fans really can't accept that sides we used to beat up on (especially Richmond) have dared to turn the tables on us. If you've been following sport for any length of time this is not unusual at all. It's one thing for idiotic supporters to bitch and moan about it, every club has them. It's way more disheartening when the club does it as well. We never used to be whingers at all. Now the impression is that Geelong as a club and supporters bitch about everything, whereas some of us would happily play a final in the Punt Road oval car park with witches hats. If we lose it means we're not good enough. Full stop. If you can't handle that tough.

This is largely true about how people perceive unfairness/advantages etc. based on how a team is performing at the time, but I still think it's an over-simplification of the matter. It's true that a great team will win anywhere and anytime, but that doesn't make it right or fair that they should have to.

Yeah as you said no one complained about Richmond playing so many games at the MCG before 2017, but that doesn't mean the problem wasn't still there, it just wasn't so obviously relevant. The unfairness or inequality in something doesn't disappear just because there isn't anyone there to take advantage of it.

Also not every decision is made based purely on on-field results, there's a big financial incentive for Geelong to play all their home games in Geelong, and considering how much of their own money the club has put into the stadium redevelopment, they will want to create the best situation that allows them to make that money back and make future profit too.

I personally think Geelong's current situation serves them best, as they get their home ground advantage, but also get a few games on the G' which has to be helpful given that finals and the grand final is played there. However THIS is the real problem. To have the GF locked into the MCG is ridiculous for a competition which calls itself national and markets itself as 'Australia's game'. If the GF was staged on a rotational basis, regardless of who plays in the GF, between the MCG/Optus/Adelaide Oval every three years - and there's not a single good reason why it shouldn't be this way - then Geelong wouldn't need to worry about getting some match practise at the G and it also wouldn't matter as much if Richmond played 14 games on their home ground. There's no perfect solution unless every team had their own home ground, but locking in the grand final to the MCG causes all sorts of equality issues more than anything else.

 

[aCunningPlan]

My major reason for wanted all home games in Geelong comes down to the city of Geelong itself. I would rather spend my money at a local restaurant or bar before the game than heading off to Melbourne where I only have enough time to grab a sneaky pie at the ground. The city needs all the economic activity it can get.

 

[STPer18]

My major reason for wanted all home games in Geelong comes down to the city of Geelong itself. I would rather spend my money at a local restaurant or bar before the game than heading off to Melbourne where I only have enough time to grab a sneaky pie at the ground. The city needs all the economic activity it can get.

It's a big thing that shouldn't be overlooked. Local businesses understandably love it, and it only happens nine times a year.

 

[Scotland]

They have a good home ground advantage, but I think most Melbourne teams would rather drive to Geelong then fly to Perth.

The Cats have a 67% winning record at KP dating back to 1941. They had a 66% winning record at Corio Oval prior to that. It's not like they lose their home games in Melbourne, though. Their Dockands home record is 34-6!

WC are 79% at Optus Stadium and were 78% and 68% at the WACA and Subiaco respectively. Obviously Subiaco the only decent sample size of those. Whoever we play at home we play at Optus, and previously Subiaco. So it evens out over time. Even Freo who haven't been as successful still have around a 60% winning record in Perth.

Geelong's KP record is slightly inflated because they only play 7-9 games there per year. Collingwood haven't been there since 99, Essendon 93, Hawthorn 06, Carlton didn't go there between 1997 and 2017. So in the last 20 years they've played some combination of the same 12-14 teams 8 or 9 times a year. The AFL don't really care about Geelong as a market, so Geelong's KP home games are going to be mostly if not all against non-Vic sides and smaller Vic teams. But if some reason that changes (it won't) they'll still win 60-70% of the time there.

 

[Yojimbo]

I think most Melbourne teams would rather drive to Geelong then fly to Perth.

Takes about as long on the busy days, but a similar unsatisfied feeling on the trip home.

 

[Seeds]

They have a good home ground advantage, but I think most Melbourne teams would rather drive to Geelong then fly to Perth.

The Cats have a 67% winning record at KP dating back to 1941. They had a 66% winning record at Corio Oval prior to that. It's not like they lose their home games in Melbourne, though. Their Dockands home record is 34-6!

WC are 79% at Optus Stadium and were 78% and 68% at the WACA and Subiaco respectively. Obviously Subiaco the only decent sample size of those. Whoever we play at home we play at Optus, and previously Subiaco. So it evens out over time. Even Freo who haven't been as successful still have around a 60% winning record in Perth.

Geelong's KP record is slightly inflated because they only play 7-9 games there per year. Collingwood haven't been there since 99, Essendon 93, Hawthorn 06, Carlton didn't go there between 1997 and 2017. So in the last 20 years they've played some combination of the same 12-14 teams 8 or 9 times a year. The AFL don't really care about Geelong as a market, so Geelong's KP home games are going to be mostly if not all against non-Vic sides and smaller Vic teams. But if some reason that changes (it won't) they'll still win 60-70% of the time there.

Good post. geelongs kp record is inflated because we dont play the best melbourne teams there.

 

[Yojimbo]

Good post. geelongs kp record is inflated because we dont play the best melbourne teams there.

Maybe Travis Auld who looks remarkably like the lead singer from Devo can use the current situation with no crowds to
give all the victimised teams from the past twenty odd seasons a "Geelong Holiday" and just send all the big teams
west. Perhaps though the lack of rabid fans and the fact they have beat up on the low drawing and interstate teams
in the past will see their advantage disappear and their banners may fly a little lower. Come on Travis Auld whip it, in
to shape, shape it up, get it straight, go forward, move ahead, try to detect it, it's not too late, to whip it, whip it good.

 

[DAlembert]

Partridge OBVIOUSLY wrote the best post on this subject. The actual dimensions of KP are not that different from Perth and Adelaide. The other 3 are TRUE cricket grounds the SCG, Gabba and the MCG. I think the ground historically was placed between a pathway and Moorabool Street so was a bit tight on the roadside whence the lack of a "wing" old photos show this clearly. But ultimately as Partridge so rightly pointed out it gets down to the quality of the team.
And as another pointed out many of the teams who do beat Geelong aka Hawthorn do not play at Geelong. So it is all pretty moot.

 

[Sterge]

Partridge OBVIOUSLY wrote the best post on this subject. The actual dimensions of KP are not that different from Perth and Adelaide. The other 3 are TRUE cricket grounds the SCG, Gabba and the MCG. I think the ground historically was placed between a pathway and Moorabool Street so was a bit tight on the roadside whence the lack of a "wing" old photos show this clearly. But ultimately as Partridge so rightly pointed out it gets down to the quality of the team.
And as another pointed out many of the teams who do beat Geelong aka Hawthorn do not play at Geelong. So it is all pretty moot.

Optus stadium is very similar to the MCG in dimensions and it is no coincidence that West Coast's MCG record vastly improved since moving to Optus

 

[DAlembert]

Optus stadium is very similar to the MCG in dimensions and it is no coincidence that West Coast's MCG record vastly improved since moving to Optus

I thought that was true also..but online search shows 5 metres longer and 11 metres less wide..that is significant according to others. Having played on the G and KP you do notice a significant difference between the 2 no doubt.

 

[Whiskers]

Good post. geelongs kp record is inflated because we dont play the best melbourne teams there.

Why do people say this?
Are you saying Essendon are good? How long have Richmond been good?
We were beating Hawthorn away every single time we played them for a long long time.

 

[Sterge]

I thought that was true also..but online search shows 5 metres longer and 11 metres less wide..that is significant according to others. Having played on the G and KP you do notice a significant difference between the 2 no doubt.

Optus 165 x 130
MCG 160 x 141
Subiaco 175 x 122
GMHBA 170 x 115

Optus is vastly closer to the MCG than Subiaco was and West Coasts MCG record shows that the change is working for them.

 

[Partridge]

Geelong's KP record is slightly inflated because they only play 7-9 games there per year. Collingwood haven't been there since 99, Essendon 93, Hawthorn 06, Carlton didn't go there between 1997 and 2017. So in the last 20 years they've played some combination of the same 12-14 teams 8 or 9 times a year. The AFL don't really care about Geelong as a market, so Geelong's KP home games are going to be mostly if not all against non-Vic sides and smaller Vic teams. But if some reason that changes (it won't) they'll still win 60-70% of the time there.

I would say it's already changing. To me it's not so much "smaller" Vic sides as how strong they are at that moment. Carlton avoided it for 20 years, but based on the fact they are now in their longest ever premiership drought, there's no logical reason why they should be spared the trip. And they haven't. They've made it each of the last two seasons. Richmond were regulars down there for many years - off the top of my head they played us there in 2005, 2006 (they won), 2007, 2009. and 2010 for starters. They've obviously turned things around, and are nowguaranteed big crowds every single time. My guess is they won't be venturing down for a while. Essendon are another team in a long premiership drought whose justification (if it ever existed) for not coming to Geelong has long since eroded. They'll be next to make the trip I think.

 

[Whiskers]

This is largely true about how people perceive unfairness/advantages etc. based on how a team is performing at the time, but I still think it's an over-simplification of the matter. It's true that a great team will win anywhere and anytime, but that doesn't make it right or fair that they should have to.

Yeah as you said no one complained about Richmond playing so many games at the MCG before 2017, but that doesn't mean the problem wasn't still there, it just wasn't so obviously relevant. The unfairness or inequality in something doesn't disappear just because there isn't anyone there to take advantage of it.

Also not every decision is made based purely on on-field results, there's a big financial incentive for Geelong to play all their home games in Geelong, and considering how much of their own money the club has put into the stadium redevelopment, they will want to create the best situation that allows them to make that money back and make future profit too.

I personally think Geelong's current situation serves them best, as they get their home ground advantage, but also get a few games on the G' which has to be helpful given that finals and the grand final is played there. However THIS is the real problem. To have the GF locked into the MCG is ridiculous for a competition which calls itself national and markets itself as 'Australia's game'. If the GF was staged on a rotational basis, regardless of who plays in the GF, between the MCG/Optus/Adelaide Oval every three years - and there's not a single good reason why it shouldn't be this way - then Geelong wouldn't need to worry about getting some match practise at the G and it also wouldn't matter as much if Richmond played 14 games on their home ground. There's no perfect solution unless every team had their own home ground, but locking in the grand final to the MCG causes all sorts of equality issues more than anything else.

This is the best post, partridge might have had a good post but it’s too simplistic.

Things change over time, we have only just realised GWS get true home ground advantage despite a bigger stadium in the state. Been said GC would get the same treatment even if they play a big club.
When GWS host Sydney in a final it’s not at the SCG and if GC were to host Brisbane it certainly would not be at the Gabba.
New teams and clearly the goal posts have moved when it comes to home finals. We have also invested lots more into the stadium since those days of ‘not complaining’

Geelong isn’t Melbourne so the region hosting games is absolutely vital to the economy. The town relies heavily on the cats playing at home.
People don’t get the bigger picture at all.
I also think we have the ideal mix of games but it doesn’t make it right.
If I were in charge I would give 11 home games to the cats, but personally I don’t want that.
I don’t find it’s right the bigger clubs keep getting these extra leg ups.

Your grand final point has some merit but it’s still not enough. Why leave out the other states? Is the Gabba and SCG not capable? If they were the only states not to ever get them it would seem unfair on them.
Maybe the higher team hosts a GF? However no I wouldn’t want that either even if it meant one in a Geelong.

The GF is best left as is although it’s not perfect.