Do GWS have issues with trading for older players?

half_back_flank

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#51
If GWS didn't have picks to burn, getting Delidio will become known as one of the worst trades in recent memory.

But setting aside talent and injury. Go back to character in senior citizens.

Richmond moved on two of their weakest character players last year. Vickery and Delidio. It's clearly contributed to a massive difference in culture.
Deledio gave his all in some pretty deploarable Richmond sides, after Richmond's 2016 disaster and his injury issues he was well within his rights to look elsewhere. Especially given he made it clear he wanted Richmond to receive the best deal they could from him. It was a very classy exit from a good clubman, certainly not the shit bloke your trying to paint him as.
 

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BRWB

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#52
Deledio gave his all in some pretty deploarable Richmond sides, after Richmond's 2016 disaster and his injury issues he was well within his rights to look elsewhere, especially given he made it clear he wanted Richmond to receive the best deal they could from him. It was a very classy exit from a good clubman, certainly not the shit bloke your trying to paint him as.
Ask Tiger fans what they think of him. In any case clear mistake to recruit with his well known chronically injured calf/Achilles probs.
 

half_back_flank

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#53
Ask Tiger fans what they think of him. In any case clear mistake to recruit with his well known chronically injured calf/Achilles probs.
He's still well loved by the vast majority down at Punt Rd.

I'm not not arguing that GWS gave up too much for him. I'm disagree with your assessment of Delidio being a questionable character, he clearly is not.
 

BRWB

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#54
He's still well loved by the vast majority down at Punt Rd.

I'm not not arguing that GWS gave up too much for him. I'm disagree with your assessment of Delidio being a questionable character, he clearly is not.
A few Tiger fans I know have a different view. Agree to differ.
 

demondavey

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#55
These threads always turn into GWS v WB shit fights, all due to that preliminary final last year. People are seriously forgetting some key points re finals. Firstly, it's not even done yet. GWS are still well and truly in it. They win this week and they are back into a preliminary final. It's not a foregone conclusion that Richmond will just win that game.

Secondly, there are enough instances in which the QF winners get bundled out after the week off. 2003, 2005, 2006, 2015, 2016. There have also been some incredibly close finishes where the QF winner has just won.

Whilst I think that GWS haven't been playing great footy, I think that they've got enough ability and talent on their list to make a GF. It's a bit rich to knock Deledio, he has been injured all year. Johnson has definitely declined and Shaw has still had a good year. He was AA last year. The Mumford loss might hurt a bit, but I think they've got too much talent to write off and start dismissing their culture.

Questioning their leadership isn't smart. They've got enough good leaders in that team.

They make a preliminary final and I'll give them a good chance.
 
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carnthemlions

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#56
Mummy has regularly broken down throughout his career. That's not made up. It's fact.

And any GWS people who complain about Mummy breaking down during a critical finals series (not saying you have) will sound like North fans complaining about Waite being injured.
lol you have no idea what you're talking about. Mumford's been huge for GWS, they couldn't win without him for a while there. Shaw likewise, he's dropped off but was in career best form last season. Deledio hasn't panned out so far, but I don't think you could really call it a mistake yet. Griffen's the only one who's been a disappointment.

No idea why people are bringing up de Boer, Johnson and Mzungu, they were basically just free mature depth to make up for all the players GWS lost from their reserves last season. De boer and Mzungu wouldn't have been heard from at all if GWS hadn't had such an awful run with injuries.
 

demondavey

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#57
A couple of issues with this post.

Firstly, if you read back through this thread you'll see that it was in fact your club's supporters who started the bullshit slanging match against us, not our fans. We came here to discuss the topic put at hand, and your "fans" (don't know about the plural) retaliated with some defensive attack at our club, which was uncalled for.

Secondly, what do we have to be salty about? We're the defending champions and you've won.... what exactly? You're the salty ones, *******.

Shitstain club, rotten to the core, from the players to the supporters.
It's not rotten to the core. You've got absolutely nothing to justify that comment. There is simply this mindset that GWS is just this make believe faux club with no supporters. That's rubbish. All new AFL clubs take time to mature.
 

telsor

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#59
Team that was near the top last year topped up with a few older FAs to try and go that bit further this year or next.

Hardly a new or unusual development.
 

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#61
As weird as it sounds, De Boer has been the best of them this year.

Deledio is underdone. I have faith in him after a full pre season to regain some form. Can't say the same for Shaw tbh but he'll stay for another year probably.
 

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PP34

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#62
Watching the better teams of the last decade or so, something always inevitably stands out. They sacrificed individual success for the good of the team, they did the one percenters, put their body on the line for the team and had a bunch of strong leaders that led the way.

The term "Bloods culture" was always thrown around with Sydney, Clarkson and Hodge led the charge at Hawthorn in the team first mentality and Geelong were always in sync with one another and played as a team.

Seeing GWS go about it the last two years and then their effort last Thursday night it's clear this is what is missing. Their backline has probably been overrated a bit but the rest of their side is talented enough to be a much more potent team than they currently are.

Shiel, Kelly, Coniglio, Ward etc are all gun midfielders. But all seem like the types that are brilliant individually and aren't cut out to lead out there on the park.

Down back Heath Shaw has actually been pretty handy from all reports in the leadership department but clearly the end is near for him and there really doesn't seem to be any other clear cut general down there to take over from him.

Up forward is where the lack of team shows most in my opinion. Clear lack of chemistry up forward. Some of that can obviously be blamed on the constant changes (especially this year) to team selection/injuries.

Obviously GWS realised leaders and building this team culture was a need as they went out and got Griffen, Johnson, Shaw, Deledio, Mumford etc. Outside of Shaw I reckon they've failed pretty badly in that department.

Is it merely them needing to replace Cameron with someone who can change the mindset of the playing list or should they look at making a few bold moves to find some players that are better suited to building a culture necessary for success?

Maybe I'm being too harsh and injuries have simply ruined any chance of building on the reasonably successful 2016 campaign?

Of course this could all backfire as they haven't been knocked out yet but in their current state it's hard to see things changing in a number of weeks.
 

Farm Boy

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#67
GWS are bunch of selfish players - practically led by captain selfish himself Tom Scully. He is the guy most of them seem to look up to. For the life of me I don't know why? Heath Shaw isn't much better, chasing his 30 kicks a game kicking to himself to boost his supercoach points. Someone forgot to tell GWS that to be successful you have to be selfless, and play as one team. Their culture is sh*t.
 

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#68
during one of their games this year the commentators noted that all their players are high draft picks and they have no "scrappers", i thought that was a fair observation. they've all been gifted the position they're in so of course there's no natural inclination to bust your gut for your teammate because neither of you busted a gut to get out there racking up AFL games. not to disrespect everyone there and pretend they didn't have to work but you sorta get what i mean. if they can find a sense of what it means to work for each other then we better look out.
 
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#69
They finished the year 4th, half a game behind 1st, backing up from a prelim last year. If they beat WC at home this weekend, they will be par for the year.
This is likely.

Much, much better culture than 14 other side's.

The only way you could say they are a failure is if you have believed the over-hyped dynasty talk from the squealing Victorian media.
 

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Moderator #70
during one of their games this year the commentators noted that all their players are high draft picks and they have no "scrappers", i thought that was a fair observation. they've all been gifted the position they're in so of course there's no natural inclination to bust your gut for your teammate because neither of you busted a gut to get out there racking up AFL games. not to disrespect everyone there and pretend they didn't have to work but you sorta get what i mean. if they can find a sense of what it means to work for each other then we better look out.
Was going to post something similar - most teams have a couple of heart and soul players who have obvious deficiencies in their football but are the types that leave 100% on the park every time they play or train. GWS did put Sam Reid back on the list who had to fight hard to re-start his playing career and was a development coach so obviously has a positive influence on the team, but their list are mostly made up of guys who have talent to burn.
 

Noobz0r

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#71
Was going to post something similar - most teams have a couple of heart and soul players who have obvious deficiencies in their football but are the types that leave 100% on the park every time they play or train. GWS did put Sam Reid back on the list who had to fight hard to re-start his playing career and was a development coach so obviously has a positive influence on the team, but their list are mostly made up of guys who have talent to burn.
Matt de Boer is one, however the gulf between talent, physical attributes, and application is just too large for him to rectify the issue.
 

PP34

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#72
They finished the year 4th, half a game behind 1st, backing up from a prelim last year. If they beat WC at home this weekend, they will be par for the year.
This is likely.

Much, much better culture than 14 other side's.

The only way you could say they are a failure is if you have believed the over-hyped dynasty talk from the squealing Victorian media.
Considering the level of talent I wouldn't call that overly impressive. Like I said, maybe injuries are a factor this year but last year they clearly blew it against the Dogs.

Some teams never see half as much talent come through in a decade.
 

Kwality

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#73
There's some truth in your general approach, but way off with Ward.
Ward is a leader for sure, & given I've kept a close eye (self interest) on Steve Coniglio I'd say he has leadership qualities, but missed too much footy in 2017 to make it to the next level.
Injuries are something every one falls to but GWS have had keeping the real core of good players on the field.
 
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#74
Watching the better teams of the last decade or so, something always inevitably stands out. They sacrificed individual success for the good of the team, they did the one percenters, put their body on the line for the team and had a bunch of strong leaders that led the way.

The term "Bloods culture" was always thrown around with Sydney, Clarkson and Hodge led the charge at Hawthorn in the team first mentality and Geelong were always in sync with one another and played as a team.

Seeing GWS go about it the last two years and then their effort last Thursday night it's clear this is what is missing. Their backline has probably been overrated a bit but the rest of their side is talented enough to be a much more potent team than they currently are.

Shiel, Kelly, Coniglio, Ward etc are all gun midfielders. But all seem like the types that are brilliant individually and aren't cut out to lead out there on the park.

Down back Heath Shaw has actually been pretty handy from all reports in the leadership department but clearly the end is near for him and there really doesn't seem to be any other clear cut general down there to take over from him.

Up forward is where the lack of team shows most in my opinion. Clear lack of chemistry up forward. Some of that can obviously be blamed on the constant changes (especially this year) to team selection/injuries.

Obviously GWS realised leaders and building this team culture was a need as they went out and got Griffen, Johnson, Shaw, Deledio, Mumford etc. Outside of Shaw I reckon they've failed pretty badly in that department.

Is it merely them needing to replace Cameron with someone who can change the mindset of the playing list or should they look at making a few bold moves to find some players that are better suited to building a culture necessary for success?

Maybe I'm being too harsh and injuries have simply ruined any chance of building on the reasonably successful 2016 campaign?

Of course this could all backfire as they haven't been knocked out yet but in their current state it's hard to see things changing in a number of weeks.
Thank you
But you might be better dont you concentrate on the resurgence of the Blues. How long do you ylthink it'll be before you finish top 4? Will it even happen in our lifetimes?
 

General Giant

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#75
GWS are bunch of selfish players - practically led by captain selfish himself Tom Scully. He is the guy most of them seem to look up to. For the life of me I don't know why? Heath Shaw isn't much better, chasing his 30 kicks a game kicking to himself to boost his supercoach points. Someone forgot to tell GWS that to be successful you have to be selfless, and play as one team. Their culture is sh*t.
Umm Scull isnt our captain but a VC and took a pay cut to stay.

Shaw? Lol





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