Society/Culture Do people actually think society will collapse due to climate change?

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Johnny Bananas

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For no apparent reason, I cling to a hope that the science which warns us might be able to also provide an answer to the problem - possibly a technological way of dealing with an excess of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere.
The technology for this already exists, it's called Direct Air Capture (DAC). There is a functioning plant in Canada that uses this method to capture a tonne of CO2 per day. Also, there's an alternative to carbon capture and storage, which is carbon capture and utilisation, where that CO2 is used for making products rather than simply being stored underground. The problem is, both these things require incredibly large amounts of energy and so they're very costly.
 

sorted

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The technology for this already exists, it's called Direct Air Capture (DAC). There is a functioning plant in Canada that uses this method to capture a tonne of CO2 per day.
One tonne per day. That's great Johnny. So we just need another 100 million of these plants to fix the situation?
 

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Jello_B

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As pointed out in the video, systems collapse doesn’t have a single cause. Eg for example, Africa is meant to reach a population of ~4 billion by the end of the century. A drought and famine happens in Africa, and a few hundred million press into Europe and Asia, overloading their society’s ability to cope, causing basic functions to breakdown. What happens next?
It was a good video. Given the increase in world scale, span and complexity (including technology) compared to the Bronze Age do you think it will happen faster or slower for us? I don’t believe we will hold until the end of this century before major change is realised.
I also thought his comparison at the end was too simplistic. In the Bronze Age those countries may have been the central powers, but not anymore.
 

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You understand this is a trial plant that can be scaled up, right?
The Carbon Engineering website says a DAC plant capable of capturing one million tons of CO2 per year would require up to 300 acres of land. They don't state the construction costs, the materials required, or the ongoing energy and water requirements for a plant the size of 300 soccer fields.

You'll run out of fingers and toes so I'll do the maths for you. Current global emissions are 36 billion tons of CO2 per annum so you would need 36,000 of such plants to break even. Double that to start reducing the CO2 level.
 

swingdog

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This article is bizarre. I dont get it. What are people basing the idea of society collapse due to climate change on? Sure it will have economic consequences but they are a slow burn in most cases and will not even get close to offsetting per capita economic growth overtime. Some rural areas will become deserted, some pacific islands and coastal regions will flood and become uninhabital. But other areas will flourish. Weather events will create costs and added living burdens but thats all it will do. All managable.



Are we dropping the ball on the main threat to society collapse? I.e.
1) the collapse of the western liberal order and the resultant wars it will lead to (and the rise of authoritarians that terrorise their citizens)

2) too many rogue nations getting nuclear technology which will ultimately lead to a major nuclear accident or deliberate use of nuclear booms.

3) major virus outbreak

All of these seem much much bigger concerns than climate change.
Climate change has direct and indirect effects. Indirect: drought across Middle East and Russia leading to low wheat yields, forcing Syrian youth off the land and into cities, feeding into radicalisation and civil war unrest. In that case, acting as an accelerant.

Direct: as lands become uninhabitable, expect mass migration. Bangladesh most immediately under threat, which is why India has built a barbed wire fence along its border. It can see what's coming and wants to push potential climate refugees east and south.

Also, the 2 degree increase is a global average. It doesn't mean temperatures are going from 25 to 27. It means much greater variability especially at the extremes.
 

Fadge

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Climate change has direct and indirect effects. Indirect: drought across Middle East and Russia leading to low wheat yields, forcing Syrian youth off the land and into cities, feeding into radicalisation and civil war unrest. In that case, acting as an accelerant.

Direct: as lands become uninhabitable, expect mass migration. Bangladesh most immediately under threat, which is why India has built a barbed wire fence along its border. It can see what's coming and wants to push potential climate refugees east and south.

Also, the 2 degree increase is a global average. It doesn't mean temperatures are going from 25 to 27. It means much greater variability especially at the extremes.
Someone else appears to have drunk the kool-aid.
 

Johnny Bananas

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The Carbon Engineering website says a DAC plant capable of capturing one million tons of CO2 per year would require up to 300 acres of land. They don't state the construction costs, the materials required, or the ongoing energy and water requirements for a plant the size of 300 soccer fields.

You'll run out of fingers and toes so I'll do the maths for you. Current global emissions are 36 billion tons of CO2 per annum so you would need 36,000 of such plants to break even. Double that to start reducing the CO2 level.
You understand this is a trial plant that can be scaled up, right?
 

sorted

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You understand this is a trial plant that can be scaled up, right?
The Carbon Engineering website says a DAC plant capable of capturing one million tons of CO2 per year would require up to 300 acres of land. They don't state the construction costs, the materials required, or the ongoing energy and water requirements for a plant the size of 300 soccer fields.

You'll run out of fingers and toes so I'll do the maths for you. Current global emissions are 36 billion tons of CO2 per annum so you would need 36,000 of such plants to break even. Double that to start reducing the CO2 level.
 

Seeds

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Climate change has direct and indirect effects. Indirect: drought across Middle East and Russia leading to low wheat yields, forcing Syrian youth off the land and into cities, feeding into radicalisation and civil war unrest. In that case, acting as an accelerant.

Direct: as lands become uninhabitable, expect mass migration. Bangladesh most immediately under threat, which is why India has built a barbed wire fence along its border. It can see what's coming and wants to push potential climate refugees east and south.

Also, the 2 degree increase is a global average. It doesn't mean temperatures are going from 25 to 27. It means much greater variability especially at the extremes.
No offence but changes in geopolitics alone causes changes like this all the time. And yes it creates disasters every now and then in certain spots. But global catastrophe? No. im far more worried by nuclear bombs falling into the hands of tin pot dictators than of climate change. whats happening now with covid should put climate change in perspective.

and for global catastrophe its temperature averages that matter. Sure local changes in certain spots could be dramatic. But they are local issues confined to a small amount of regions. They do not have global ramifications. For most people it just is a change in temps of 25 to 27. And for many its a change from 10 degrees to 12.
 

swingdog

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No offence but changes in geopolitics alone causes changes like this all the time. And yes it creates disasters every now and then in certain spots. But global catastrophe? No. im far more worried by nuclear bombs falling into the hands of tin pot dictators than of climate change. whats happening now with covid should put climate change in perspective.

and for global catastrophe its temperature averages that matter. Sure local changes in certain spots could be dramatic. But they are local issues confined to a small amount of regions. They do not have global ramifications. For most people it just is a change in temps of 25 to 27. And for many its a change from 10 degrees to 12.
Localised effects can accelerate bigger geopolitical changes. Don't think of climate change as a Hollywood style disaster movie. Rather, like coronavirus albeit in a shorter time scale, it reveals weaknesses in current structures.

Just on the 2 degrees thing. That's what we're aiming for, we're currently tracking between 3 and 5 degrees increase. With regard to just one local impact - bushfires - 2 degrees gives us conditions typical of the last summer.
 
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Johnny Bananas

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The Carbon Engineering website says a DAC plant capable of capturing one million tons of CO2 per year would require up to 300 acres of land. They don't state the construction costs, the materials required, or the ongoing energy and water requirements for a plant the size of 300 soccer fields.

You'll run out of fingers and toes so I'll do the maths for you. Current global emissions are 36 billion tons of CO2 per annum so you would need 36,000 of such plants to break even. Double that to start reducing the CO2 level.
You have precious few brain cells to rub together, I see.
 

madmadworld

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whats happening now with covid should put climate change in perspective.
That's for sure. no matter how advanced/smart we think we are a invisible item can bring us to this. controlling the atmosphere seems a tall order.
over 30 years of trying to read the crystal ball of climate change has been a chore of failure, even with Catalina /Windows 10 at the finger tips.
but heck I'm so old we worried about global cooling it had history also.

I don't know where to place this ..so here
How big of a statue of Scott Morrison is being planned?
 

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