How does our list compare to Richmond's?

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Gymnorhina tibic

Gymnorhina tibic

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Nov 2, 2007
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Collingwood
Had an argument with a mate over New Years, my position was that if the Tigers can win from 13th so can we (it was top shelf single malt). My logic was if both lists were combined more Pies would make it than Tigers. Turns out I’m wrong, my team has 12 Tigers and 10 Pies, but we have better depth, leaving out Degoey, Varcoe, Crisp, WHE..they only miss Prestia.

My team:

Grimes Rance Howe
Adams Reid Houli
Caddy Cotchin Wells
Martin Moore Edwards
Rioli Riewoldt Elliot
Grundy Treloar Pendlebury

Sidebottom Ellis Lambert Grigg

Emerg: Prestia Crisp Maynard Varcoe
 

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Any pies vs tigers team has to be a form based argument.... hence the tigers getting the nod after their 2017.

But Tigers players like Ellis, Houli, Grigg, Caddy, etc were only average in years prior.... in the same way that Dawes, McCaffer, Blair were at their best in 2010-11.... but had very ordinary careers after that.

I think Richmond will fall away this year. Tougher draw, extra pressure from supporters, more awareness of their play from opposition coaches, and too many average players who won't repeat their career best 2017 form.
 
Don't think there's any doubt that Richmond are far from a star studded side and won't go down as one of the great premiership teams.

But they played to their strengths beautifully last year, particularly when it really mattered. And having an absolute superstar like Dusty helps.

We do stack up ok against them, as you say OP. But the question is can we maximise the potential of our kids and have the entire list committed to a winning formula? And also, can our fringe players make the sorts of contributions we had them making in 2010/11 and that the Tigers had this year? Thrown in a good injury run and suddenly we are playing finals.

But that's a lot of questions to be answered within a season.

My realistic hope for 2018: Improvement from multiple players, more evidence of a cohesive plan that maximises out list strengths and squeezing into the 8.

If we get cheeky and do add Lynch, McLarty comes on and we draft well at the end of this year, 2018 becomes a major stepping stone to serious finas action from 2019 onwards.
 
Jasper84 said:
WHE and Degoey are getting a game over Caddy, Edwards and Ellis. Grigg doesn't play if Grundy is in the ruck. And if Sidebottom is on the bench, then someone has broken the universe.
Click to expand...
Grigg is their Goldsack, the utility who can play big or small and relieve 1st ruck, in for team balance, I have him over Goldy. Edwards gets a game in any side imo, very underrated player. Sidebottom pushed out by Cotchin but can still get 3 votes
 
I think the Richmond side is very similar in nature to our 2010 side. They got significant contributions from their bottom half dozen like we did from Dawes, Caff and other young/ fringe players.

Our run ended when our game plan was worked out and the list was shown to be not as good as first thought. Yes it was young, but not much from that young side really went on to be elite. Thomas, Wellingham, Blair, Caff, Dawes all didn’t reach the heights they all might have expected.

Think Richmond may be similar.
 
Gymnorhina tibic said:
Had an argument with a mate over New Years, my position was that if the Tigers can win from 13th so can we (it was top shelf single malt). My logic was if both lists were combined more Pies would make it than Tigers. Turns out I’m wrong, my team has 12 Tigers and 10 Pies, but we have better depth, leaving out Degoey, Varcoe, Crisp, WHE..they only miss Prestia.

My team:

Grimes Rance Howe
Adams Reid Houli
Caddy Cotchin Wells
Martin Moore Edwards
Rioli Riewoldt Elliot
Grundy Treloar Pendlebury

Sidebottom Ellis Lambert Grigg

Emerg: Prestia Crisp Maynard Varcoe
Click to expand...
Most key players in that team looking quite Richmondy. Surely Houli plays CHB
 
Absolutely.

They have the two best players in the league in Martin and Rance, tapers off pretty quickly after that. Cotchin is faux-hard, And he may make our midfield but I’d much rather have Treloar and Adams on ball. Maybe some of the fringe players could be replaced E.g Phillips, Blair, Smith, Langdon...Inject some pace and skill off the half back line, struggle to do the same in the midfield because as I said above our two biggest issues with ball use in the middle (Treloar, adams) are still both better than Cotchin.

Don’t buy the form arguement, they are in form because they are executing their game plan better not because of personnel. They had no injuries last year too. Comparing best 22’s we are miles ahead.

Last year was the first time Buckley had a relatively healthy list, it takes time to build team chemistry.
 

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Treloar thinks so.:(
 
B: Dylan Grimes ~ Lynden Dunn ~ Nick Vlaustin
HB: Jeremy Howe ~ Alex Rance ~ Bachar Houli

M: Daniel Wells ~ Trent Cotchin ~ Kane Lambert
R: Brodie Grundy ~ Scott Pendlebury ~ Adam Treloar

HF: Steele Sidebottom ~ Darcy Moore ~ Dustin Martin
F: Daniel Rioli ~ Jack Reiwoldt ~ Jamie Elliott

I/C: Jordan De Goey ~ Brayden Maynard ~ Brendan Ellis ~ Shane Edwards
 
mike123 said:
B: Dylan Grimes ~ Lynden Dunn ~ Nick Vlaustin
HB: Jeremy Howe ~ Alex Rance ~ Bachar Houli

M: Daniel Wells ~ Trent Cotchin ~ Kane Lambert
R: Brodie Grundy ~ Scott Pendlebury ~ Adam Treloar

HF: Steele Sidebottom ~ Darcy Moore ~ Dustin Martin
F: Daniel Rioli ~ Jack Reiwoldt ~ Jamie Elliott

I/C: Jordan De Goey ~ Brayden Maynard ~ Brendan Ellis ~ Shane Edwards
Click to expand...

Not sure in which universe Grimes gets a gig ahead of Langdon but doubt it's this one.

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy...2=15&type=A&pid1=3975&pid2=3383&fid1=C&fid2=C

And I won't even start on the selection of Lambert in the midfield ahead of quite a few others (from either squad)
 
Richmond clearly have a better list as it stands currently. It's not really close which is no surprise given they won the flag and we didn't make finals. I think a lot of the rating in this thread is based on giving best case senario development to some of our young players while probably denying the same for the Tigers.

The area they clearly dominate us in is top end talent.

They have 4 guenuine top class players and 3 of them are best or near best in their area.

Rance is pretty clearly the dominant KPB of the comp. Dusty is as good as any mid and a goal kicking one to boot and Reiwoldt with Buddy and Kennedy is the best of established key forwards. Averaged 60 goals a season for the last 8 which is just a terrific base to build around. Cotchin rounds out the group of 4 while not being at the level of the other 3.

Only Pendles can be spoken of at that level at the Pies and is the only Pie you would have in the top 30 players in the comp. Nowadays s he sits in the 20-30 range and I doubt is likely to rise much higher in the future.

That's a big gulf in star power. The Tigers 2nd and 3rd tier stood up well in 2017 but it was the cream that they built their success around.

Now we may, in best case senario develop and bridge the talent gap to a degree in 2018 but my guess is we will finish outside the 8 in 2018 and Richmond will be top 4 and that's mainly about them having a better list than us
 
Many will reflect on it on the basis of 2017 results which makes the discussion difficult before it starts and talent alone is only a very small factor in determining the quality of a teams performance anyway (probably diminishing as time passes).

To answer the core premise of the thread? We’re close enough, but need to improve in several other areas to see tangible improvement overall. I’d probably be more interested in the results from 12 months ago myself.
 
Jasper84 said:
WHE and Degoey are getting a game over Caddy, Edwards and Ellis. Grigg doesn't play if Grundy is in the ruck. And if Sidebottom is on the bench, then someone has broken the universe.
Click to expand...
sidebutt starts every time, the universe is OK, must be a typo
 
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