Do we have too many "nice guys" in our club.

Drought Break

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Going to get roasted here but we dont seem to have enough unsociable players in our team. Twice in grand finals opposition players with clear known injuries in Lappin 2003 and McGovern have not been roughed up and tested. After Ryans hit on Maynard with arms up going for a mark and no free should have been a green light to do the same to McGovern.

Instead we have Pendles watching opposites take marks unopposed, Steele outplayed all game having a nice friendly chat to his WCE opponent, Thomas unable to break tackles or effect any.

No surprises we easily won 1990 as we had the type of players you need in Grand finals. Someone to test the boundaries. A Leigh Brown type player etc.

All our grand final losses have had a similar theme, stronger bodies and tougher players then us.

We must get a player like May. Need some talls with Mongrel to help out the likes of DeGoey, maynard etc
 

JB1975

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It's a fine line. A player with too much 'physical presence' would be of little use in a GF if they couldn't get through a finals series without being suspended.

Maynard does make his presence felt, as does Adams, as does JDG. Lynden Dunn is another. Anyway, I don't think it was the niceness of the players which lost us the game.
 

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DuckToaster

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I think we have one of the "toughest" teams we have had in awhile. Dunn, varcoe, Adams, crisp, Maynard, Greenwood, de goey. All as hard as they come. You should post here more often. It's rare for somebody to get totally roasted unless their chosen topic is completely out of line. Nothing wrong with having an opinion and invoking discussion. :)
 

Drought Break

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I think we have one of the "toughest" teams we have had in awhile. Dunn, varcoe, Adams, crisp, Maynard, Greenwood, de goey. All as hard as they come. You should post here more often. It's rare for somebody to get totally roasted unless their chosen topic is completely out of line. Nothing wrong with having an opinion and invoking discussion. :)
Agree mate. All tough players you mentioned. Missing some big tough units but. All our GF losses have had one thing in common. Out bodied and muscled by bigger teams. 2010 an exception but mainly due to the fact that the Saints were not known as a big tough team.

Dunn would have been a huge addition
 

loki04

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he aint no nice guy


But thats 1 player only Maynard and Greenwood has similar aggression/intent.

After Maynard was poleaxed not a single player gave a yelp, no square up later in the game nothing.


As for the OP I say yes as a team we lack some much needed aggression. (and before some nupty says it, no im not talking about sniping or taking the focus off the footy etc.)
 

loki04

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It's a fine line. A player with too much 'physical presence' would be of little use in a GF if they couldn't get through a finals series without being suspended.

Maynard does make his presence felt, as does Adams, as does JDG. Lynden Dunn is another. Anyway, I don't think it was the niceness of the players which lost us the game.
It contributed, I definitely thought we played too "nice". Need a harder edge on GF day WC certainly brought it to the contest and a bit of dirty stuff off it (lots of knees to heads of pies after tackling and running off, gut punches, knees into players in marking contest as opposed to Cox who often slowed his approach and truned his body).
 

loki04

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I don’t think so.

If we’d had a different sliding doors moment we’d all be commending how well our team was able maintain focus at winning the footy and winning the game, and not being sucked into what our opponents were doing.
Physically aggressive teams often win flags, 00 Essendon, Lions 01-03, Port 04, Unsociable Hawks, Richmond last year.
 

76woodenspooners

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Physically aggressive teams often win flags, 00 Essendon, Lions 01-03, Port 04, Unsociable Hawks, Richmond last year.
IMHO physicality wasn’t the main difference between us winning and losing.

Whenever we played with dare and played on from marks we were often rewarded.

When we went into our shells and took our free kicks from marks and slowed it up we looked like were losing confidence and letting WCE back into it.
 

loki04

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IMHO physicality wasn’t the main difference between us winning and losing.

Whenever we played with dare and played on from marks we were often rewarded.

When we went into our shells and took our free kicks from marks and slowed it up we looked like were losing confidence and letting WCE back into it.
There were many reasons why we lost and lacking aggression at man and ball; read physicality, was one area we can improve on greatly which would of went a long way to helping win.
 

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JB1975

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It contributed, I definitely thought we played too "nice". Need a harder edge on GF day WC certainly brought it to the contest and a bit of dirty stuff off it (lots of knees to heads of pies after tackling and running off, gut punches, knees into players in marking contest as opposed to Cox who often slowed his approach and truned his body).
I'm a fan of physicality. Truth be told, I've lamented the absence of assertiveness in our players in the past. However, what cost us on Saturday is that we weren't aggressive in our play. We looked for the boundary line, again and again and again...instead of linking, running, creating options in the middle etc. That was where and how we needed to be aggressive, and that was where our lack of aggression and boldness cost us.
 

loki04

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Aggression/Intent physcially imposing yourself on the game.
Kicking to the right option inside 50 (where McGovern isn't sitting alone in the hole!).
Manning up McGovern.
Not picking and choosing your moments to put the body on the line or run with a player to contest Degoey/Pendles.
Dropping the eyes going inside 50 looking for a short option in JT, WHE, Degoey instead of the dump kick to Cox which works 1 in 5 games.
Bumping Hutchins at every bounce to allow Sidebottom some space and physically wear Hutchins down.
Have a better kickout strategy.
Dare to break the lines with run and carry.

All things we can control.
 

loki04

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I'm a fan of physicality. Truth be told, I've lamented the absence of assertiveness in our players in the past. However, what cost us on Saturday is that we weren't aggressive in our play. We looked for the boundary line, again and again and again...instead of linking, running, creating options in the middle etc. That was where and how we needed to be aggressive, and that was where our lack of aggression and boldness cost us.
Lacked in both areas imo.
 

PIEWITHSAUCE

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I agree with almost everyone -not enough aggression in terms of ball movement or physicality. In the end the ball movement and lack of run was the more costly but I did feel we could've imposed ourselves physically a bit more too, esp after Hoskin early and Maynard later copping late hits.
 
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Controlled aggression is the key.
Do we have hard edged players, sure do.
On Saturday suggest the following gave that good nastiness in them, whether they used it enough who really knows:

De Goey
Grundy
Adams
Varcoe
Greenwood
Thomas
Maynard


That's enough to be going on with
 

Morganashlee

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If we came out on Saturday and tried to play like Brisbane in their premiership era we would have roasted the club for deviating from what has worked for us up until that point.

We aren’t an overly aggressive side, but we are tough. We aren’t antagonistic but we don’t take a backwards step. We have hard nosed, physical players and we have skilfull, hardworking outside players. Pendles, Steele and JT are not capable of playing a style like Vossy and the Scott brothers. But it would have been great if they could have just played their usual roles, to their capabilities. We wouldn’t be here searching for answers if that had of happened on Saturday.
 

wicksy

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I'm a fan of physicality. Truth be told, I've lamented the absence of assertiveness in our players in the past. However, what cost us on Saturday is that we weren't aggressive in our play. We looked for the boundary line, again and again and again...instead of linking, running, creating options in the middle etc. That was where and how we needed to be aggressive, and that was where our lack of aggression and boldness cost us.
Players were trying to save the game all day.
Their butt holes puckered up and every instinct they had in the prelim went out the window.
 

Copeland

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Our team were clearly getting their wires crossed about who was going up and who was staying down. There were times when everybody was going up, and other times (like that one) when everybody was staying down .
The time I was remembering Pendles was the closest and stood there ball watching, no other teammate was near.
 

Robroy22

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I don't get this idea at all. From where I sat on Saturday there were only 2-3 instances of players pulling out of contests for the whole game (Ryan did 2 of them for WC). Our boys all put in on the weekend, they put their head over the ball and they chased and tackled hard. Remember this is the new PC AFL where blokes like Grundy get suspended for "tackling too hard" so I don't really see how you want blokes going around running through other blokes like they used to?
The really tough intimidating players have always been the ones that got the ball. Lethal got the ball, so too did Rose and Whitten and Barassi. Gavin Brown got the ball as did Tony Shaw and Pants, they didn't run around belting blokes! Dermie is famous because he "Got up" in a GF not because he belted someone else!

Leigh Brown was only intimidating to spindly Carlton Ruckmen and because he looked like he might do something if you rubbed him the wrong way! The anvil's real talent was his ability to do things people thought he'd never try (like the 65 meter reverse torpedo that bounces like a leg break!)

We have more than enough competitive beasts in our side and we're coached by the most competitive player I think I've ever seen. We'll stand up.
 

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