Do we have too many "nice guys" in our club.

BringouttheGimp

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Possibly but why the hell would we lack belief after being 5 goals up - then why lack belief after kicking the first 2 goals of the last quarter - surely belief should have risen at either / both of those points?

I know it's different teams, players, coaches but Pies get done over in GFs (in different ways) but same result ----- friggin heart break

Let's break the heart break - not sure what the magic formula is but GFs need an unshakeable, mental toughness etc plus a bit of luck - only GF luck going our way in decades was the Milne bounce in 2010.
We as supporters remember situations where luck was not on our side more than those situations where luck was on our side. What was it 6 out of the last 7 scoring shots for WC?

2 1/2 hrs of football is what's it's about.. ample enough time to win a game based on merit. And we simply weren't good enough.
 
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TKiL

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We as supporters remember situations where luck was not on our side more than those situations where luck was on our side. What was it 6 out of the last 7 scoring shots for WC?

2 1/2 hrs of football is what's it's about.. ample enough time to win a game based on merit. And we simply weren't good enough.
Which is different to lacking belief - missing Dunn, Scharenberg, Reid, Moore finally caught up with us
 

magpies42

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Going to get roasted here but we dont seem to have enough unsociable players in our team. Twice in grand finals opposition players with clear known injuries in Lappin 2003 and McGovern have not been roughed up and tested. After Ryans hit on Maynard with arms up going for a mark and no free should have been a green light to do the same to McGovern.

Instead we have Pendles watching opposites take marks unopposed, Steele outplayed all game having a nice friendly chat to his WCE opponent, Thomas unable to break tackles or effect any.

No surprises we easily won 1990 as we had the type of players you need in Grand finals. Someone to test the boundaries. A Leigh Brown type player etc.

All our grand final losses have had a similar theme, stronger bodies and tougher players then us.

We must get a player like May. Need some talls with Mongrel to help out the likes of DeGoey, maynard etc
Was thinking this today, the unsociable hawks did incredibly well...there’s definitely been a shift away from thuggery and players are more disciplined. We seldom give away stupid free kicks or 50 penalties, that’s obviously a good thing. It’s a fine balance, but clearly it’s buckleys way to be more sociable. Remember Grundy was an absolute menacing beast when he first started...as was Adams and Maynard.
 

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BringouttheGimp

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Which is different to lacking belief - missing Dunn, Scharenberg, Reid, Moore finally caught up with us
No Natanui Gaff.

Mate.. Sidebottom has taken on a high level of responsibility in 3 of our finals games.. non influential in the gf.. game over! The responsibility was left to our roll players to do the job.. simply not good enough. Disheveled. No Sidebottom to the rescue.

If you're gonna rely on good luck and not expect bad luck in return to win a game of football played over 2 1/2 hrs on the pitch and in the dressing room.. then what's the point. Ample time mate. We lacked creativity enterprise after 1/4 time.. they actually got a hold of us late in the first.. and slowly wore us down.. credit where credits due.. they were a lot better than us.
 
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TKiL

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No Natanui Gaff.

Mate.. Sidebottom has taken on a high level of responsibility in 3 of our finals games.. non influential in the gf.. game over! The responsibility was left to our roll players to do the job.. simply not good enough. Disheveled. No Sidebottom to the rescue.

If you're gonna rely on good luck and not expect bad luck in return to win a game of football played over 2 1/2 hrs on the pitch and in the dressing room.. then what's the point. Ample time mate. We lacked creativity enterprise after 1/4 time.. they actually got a hold of us late in the first.. and slowly wore us down.. credit where credits due.. they were a lot better than us.
No real disagreement there - they wore us down gradually and got us in the end - too many quiet players in the last quarter - just once I'd like Cwood to pinch a granny in controversial circumstances
 

BringouttheGimp

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No real disagreement there - they wore us down gradually and got us in the end - too many quiet players in the last quarter - just once I'd like Cwood to pinch a granny in controversial circumstances
I get what you mean..
 

PIEWITHSAUCE

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I'm not sure I agree with everything you're saying, but there was a definite change to the 'atmosphere' on the ground after quarter time.
Two late WCE goals having us <3 goals up after that start was a huge letdown (and a big lift for them) and I think the dying stages of the first quarter pretty much lost us the game. A poor effort from Langdon on the goal line and one of many questionable frees against Grundy setting those goals up made it even worse.
 

anshell

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We were one bad umpiring decision and two minutes away from winning that game.I don’t think the eagles were far too good for us at all.The game was really an arm wrestle for the last three quarters,with no side having any real ascendency.The only time they got hold of us was that ten minute period in the last quarter when we couldn’t get the ball out of our backline,but otherwise it was a very even affair.
 
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Dogs_Playing_Poker

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"Roughing up" Players? Answer me this when does this ever work?
Dermie - gets targeted at the opening bounce.... get ups and inspires his teammates
Hodge - Got his "Ribs Tested" in a grand final.... Hodge kept saying hit me again, hit me again, inspires his teammates and they win.
Scott Burns ran through Jono Brown in one of our grand finals, Brown gets up and inspires his teammates, Happened with Voss too and Burns.
Gavin Brown KO'd at 1/4 time, comes back on inspires his teammates.

I was happy nobody from our side "tested out" McGovern, the best thing for us to have done would have been to tackle him hard or hit him hard in marking contests etc...... easier said then done as he never plays on anyone ;).

We got enough mongrel in our side or on our list - Taylor Adams, Dunne, Maynard have it, so does Degoey, Grundy, Greenwood and to an extent Sidebottom and Treloar. We were a kick away from winning it.
 

Big Crow

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Outsiders opinion here, for what it’s worth - I come in peace. I reckon you have enough mongrel in the mix, which I wish my lot had.

I’ve also seen a Collingwood this year that has gone about things the right way on field and off. Bucks, Pendlebury and even Eddie were all class in victory in the prelim and all class in defeat on Saturday. Bravo.

I can tell you first hand how much the loss stings, obviously, but you should be encouraged not only what your players have shown on the field but also the integrity the club has shown off it. To me, it is walking the walk which says you’re in the right place - ruthless but also honest, upfront, and most likely willing to ask the necessary questions in house to seek continual improvement. It will stand you in good stead, and contribute to more success in the future.

Perhaps I’m reading too much into things, but either way I’m starting to like Collingwood - what is happening?!

Anyway, all the best in 2019 - apart from when we meet each other, of course.
 

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cleomenes

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Trent Cotchin smashing into Dylan Shiel and crunching his shoulder so he played no effective part in the GWS final last year.
And I can recall Leigh Matthews taking Keith Greig and Ross Smith, the best players at the time for North Melbourne and St Kilda, out of grand finals and esuring Hawthorn wins. The reverse cases ( Brereton etc) have been just as influential, so it is really hard to define a useable method here. I like the way we do it.
 

jonbe54

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NO we have too many injuries in our club - seriously - one simple inclusion . . . Dunn and we win by 2 or 3 goals. Add in Shaz and Moore and we win by plenty.

Playing an undersized backline finally caught up with us.

Those few of you who had the gall to attack players and especially the creeps who attacked woody are simply a waste of space . . PERIOD.
 

The Royal Sampler

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We weren’t the best team this year. We got beaten 3/3 by WCE, and by playing the GF at the MCG every year we gained an undeserved home ground advantage. Had we not rolled Richmond, you’d say we’d probably overachieved just by making top four and winning a final (against a similarly injury plagued GWS).

Everything points towards us walking away proud, reasonably satisfied and optimistic except for the fact we kicked the first 5 goals of the GF. If we ever make another GF in my lifetime I will need valium just to watch it. That experience was horrible beyond words.
 

FrakturedHalo

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fwiw I would like to see a just a teensy bit more ‘mongrel’ at times in some of our players, not so much the 1980’s-esque lining certain opponents up and someone being tasked in a GF simply to line em up and take em out entirely, I don’t think Bucks would even consider such a thing tbh, but I would like to see a bit more stern remonstrations by the players when one of our own is on the end of a pissweak manouevre like Ryan’s on Maynard in the first quarter, I think half of the supporters in the stands were more prepared to jump the fence and show him what’ll come to him more than any of our boys were at the time?
I’d also like to see a bit more offensive aggression, particularly when you’ve got a player that’s niggling and pushing and doing the dirty behind play constantly...I don’t mean Buddy Franklin-style emotional
meltdowns when he’s been masterfully held and starts throwing the fists around, and certainly not a Gaff-like gaffe, but just a few stern hip n shoulders or dropping the dead weight from the shoulder to contest a ball on in a pack on the ground just to show you’re no pushover. All I tend to see in these situations is either players just giving a shrug off run away or a spot of lip and sledging, which is more petulant schoolboy nipping at your ankle annoying than a masculine making a physical presence felt stuff. I do however quite like Mason Cox when he gets a bit of grrrrr about him when he’s been manhandled a bit without any frees, it noticeably makes the opponent players take a step back.

Also what id like to see a HELL of a lot more of is our boys SHEPHERDING and really being team players by putting their bodies on the line for each other. Not stupidly of course, but honestly I reckon every single game I can count on one hand the number of shepherds I see us do, why is this integral part of the game seemingly missing from our defensive and/or offensive structures? For Christ’s sake in our family footy games on the beach in Rye it’s the one move/tactic whatever u call it that’s carried out with the most gusto by every player no matter how old, young, fat or small, so why is it MIA from Collingwoods gameplan?
 
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The Royal Sampler

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Also what id like to see a HELL of a lot more of is our boys SHEPHERDING and really being team players by putting their bodies on the line for each other. Not stupidly of course, but honestly I reckon every single game I can count on one hand the number of shepherds I see us do, why is this integral part of the game seemingly missing from our defensive and/or offensive structures?
This is an excellent question.

I’m very big on shepherding, I think it’s important to buy your teammate an extra split second, to balance, scan the field and execute his skill. I’m the one person I know who sits in the stands and roasts players for failing to shepherd.

What I’m noticing is this; shepherding is, at times, the enemy of “spread”. Our gameplan values running off and presenting as the next option for a handball, over shepherding your teammate and letting him kick long unencumbered. I’m fine with this as it’s clearly gameplan specific. However wherever it’s not possible to peel off and create that overlap, we need to remember to drill that opponent within 5m.

The “flying the flag” stuff is also relevant, but kind of a separate issue.
 

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