Analysis Do we need to follow?

[captain blood 17]

As we always know, football is an evolving beast and imitation and copying is just how it goes. Now everyone is having fun, lovey dovey and moving the ball like us in 2017.
So the irony is, we are now getting done by copy cat teams. What do we do? Clubs have caught us up/we have gone back to the field a bit.
The three teams we need to look at are the eagles, cats and pies. If we just try and persist with what we are doing, we aren’t gonna go anywhere this season. Cats are benefiting from the rule changes, let’s look at how. Pies dismantled us, let’s look at how. WCE are dominating with 2 key forwards and a ruck. Let’s look at it.
What we were doing, teams have had 2 pre seasons to work out. What are other peoples thoughts, how do we change it up?


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[fumbler]

Don't use Reiwoldt in the ruck FFS.
Don't us Ellis again FFS.

 

[Drunken Wookie]

Hardwick said something in a recent interview that gave me pause for thought. Paraphrasing he said something like we may have been too advanced in our pre-season preparations last year (which probably resulted in us peaking too early and petering out come finals time.)
Did we perhaps hold back over the pre-season with the intention to use the first few rounds to sort of 'run us in' to the remaining rounds, timing our peak towards the latter half of the season?

 

[tugga]

I'm not going to predict what's going to happen for the rest of the year. we could make the top 4, top 8 or we could miss out altogether.
Regardless, I'd like to see us get some games into Ross, Naish, CCJ, balta RCD etc.
I was all for getting Weller, but I don't see the point in playing him over the kids now.
Look at Port Adelaide and Geelong. They've brought in kids and they are both 2-0 and looking very good.
Coversely Essendon has just topped up and largely ignored the draft and they are 0-2.

 

[Tenacious T]

Stop the long high bomb up forward to Lynch/Reiwoldt in the hope that Butts/Casta/Rioli will crumb and apply pressure.
With Lynch the only tall, taller backs are going to easily intercept.
Reckon little 20/30 mt chips into leading space would be more effective (as seen by Pies).

 

[Shazza_]

trade tim lynch to gc

 

[captain blood 17]

Stop the long high bomb up forward to Lynch/Reiwoldt in the hope that Butts/Casta/Rioli will crumb and apply pressure.
With Lynch the only tall, taller backs are going to easily intercept.
Reckon little 20/30 mt chips into leading space would be more effective (as seen by Pies).

Agree, the use of our forward handball and lowering the eyes has dropped off. We just seem to blast the ball forward more.


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[Spluff]

I'm not sure following is the way. If you look at most premiership sides recently, they're the ones who tried something different, to suit their list, while everybody else was following.

West Coast went with a more methodical, mark based game plan to suit their elite talls while everybody else was going with Richmond's forward at all costs gameplay.

Richmond went with the now famous pressure and knock the ball forward game plan to suit our fast athletic smalls and intercept marking backs when everybody else was trying to build a big contested ball midfield.

Hawthorn built their famous short kick gameplay to suit their players with elite kicking skills but not as great contested ability, while everybody else was trying to build Collingwood/Fremantle style forward press gameplans.

The key to success seems to be to take an honest look at the strengths and weaknesses of your list, and build a gameplans to suit that. Following a gameplan built to suit somebody else's list never really seems to pay off.

 

[Tiges1229]

trade tim lynch to gc

What about Tom Lunch ?

 

[tiggywigs]

I'm not sure following is the way. If you look at most premiership sides recently, they're the ones who tried something different, to suit their list, while everybody else was following.

West Coast went with a more methodical, mark based game plan to suit their elite talls while everybody else was going with Richmond's forward at all costs gameplay.

Richmond went with the now famous pressure and knock the ball forward game plan to suit our fast athletic smalls and intercept marking backs when everybody else was trying to build a big contested ball midfield.

Hawthorn built their famous short kick gameplay to suit their players with elite kicking skills but not as great contested ability, while everybody else was trying to build Collingwood/Fremantle style forward press gameplans.

The key to success seems to be to take an honest look at the strengths and weaknesses of your list, and build a gameplans to suit that. Following a gameplan built to suit somebody else's list never really seems to pay off.

Great post.

 

[Cdog71]

I’m not sure anyone has played like the pies did against us. They swung it back and forth and then seemed to go around us but avoided unnecessary contests till they where over the centre line. Really took the ball past out Fwd fifty pressure.
Didn’t see West coasts first game but apparently picked their way through GWS. Seems both teams keep the ball off the floor. As opposed to us and Melb.
Melb last week got the ball inside fifty a heap more and went down and last night got pumped.

Not sure but perhaps the 666 may have alot more affect on widening/changing the corridor a bit?

We haven’t been able to get our game going yet, we were reacting to the Pies abd the blooze was just a rusty scramble

 

[Tiges1229]

I’m not sure anyone has played like the pies did against us. They swung it back and forth and then seemed to go around us but avoided unnecessary contests till they where over the centre line. Really took the ball past out Fwd fifty pressure.
Didn’t see West coasts first game but apparently picked their way through GWS. Seems both teams keep the ball off the floor. As opposed to us and Melb.
Melb last week got the ball inside fifty a heap more and went down and last night got pumped.

Not sure but perhaps the 666 may have alot more affect on widening/changing the corridor a bit?

We haven’t been able to get our game going yet, we were reacting to the Pies abd the blooze was just a rusty scramble

I actually don’t think 666 has done anything to game except make it look a bit neater in the centre bounce ? It was supposed to be all these massive long kicks from backline after points lol Collingwood did the complete opposite .

 

[Cdog71]

I actually don’t think 666 has done anything to game except make it look a bit neater in the centre bounce ? It was supposed to be all these massive long kicks from backline after points lol Collingwood did the complete opposite .

Yeah, I dunno.
The normal stats don’t seem line up as well with the results this season.

 

[Tiges1229]

Yeah, I dunno.
The normal stats don’t seem line up as well with the results this season.

Just by watching the games it doesent really look any different other than cleaner in the middle , the kick outs from behinds look pretty identical to last year , scoring hasn’t increased at all either and that was supposed to be one of the driving factors .

 

[tigs2010]

I'm not sure following is the way. If you look at most premiership sides recently, they're the ones who tried something different, to suit their list, while everybody else was following.

West Coast went with a more methodical, mark based game plan to suit their elite talls while everybody else was going with Richmond's forward at all costs gameplay.

Richmond went with the now famous pressure and knock the ball forward game plan to suit our fast athletic smalls and intercept marking backs when everybody else was trying to build a big contested ball midfield.

Hawthorn built their famous short kick gameplay to suit their players with elite kicking skills but not as great contested ability, while everybody else was trying to build Collingwood/Fremantle style forward press gameplans.

The key to success seems to be to take an honest look at the strengths and weaknesses of your list, and build a gameplans to suit that. Following a gameplan built to suit somebody else's list never really seems to pay off.

Agree except Pies copied us and have a preliminary finalship trophy to show for it.

 

[roacheee]

Agree, the use of our forward handball and lowering the eyes has dropped off. We just seem to blast the ball forward more.
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higgo a contributor to this

it as all because we are not running

we are not running
we are not running
we are not running
we are not running

 

[Tiger_4_Life]

Think we need to wait til round 6 to make the calls.... Losing rance is still a bitter pill to swallow for the club, we played like absolute s**t on Thursday but were still in the hunt halfway thru the last, it's not panic stations yet, not convinced on geelong yet, they're playing the kids but let's see how they're going at round 20 rather than round 2.

 

[_RT_]

As we always know, football is an evolving beast and imitation and copying is just how it goes. Now everyone is having fun, lovey dovey and moving the ball like us in 2017.
So the irony is, we are now getting done by copy cat teams. What do we do? Clubs have caught us up/we have gone back to the field a bit.
The three teams we need to look at are the eagles, cats and pies. If we just try and persist with what we are doing, we aren’t gonna go anywhere this season. Cats are benefiting from the rule changes, let’s look at how. Pies dismantled us, let’s look at how. WCE are dominating with 2 key forwards and a ruck. Let’s look at it.
What we were doing, teams have had 2 pre seasons to work out. What are other peoples thoughts, how do we change it up?


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Good discussion topic and follows on from the thread I started about the KPP replacements. IMO I believe we had a plan in place that was an evolution of our structure and game plan from the last 2 years.

I don't think we need to change it, I think we just need to tweak what we had planned to do heading into the year, especially from a defensive standpoint as Rance won't be back this year, until we get to the bye and then reassess where we are at. If we're thereabouts for the 8 then keep pushing for the finals. If not then take the opportunity to put games into the younger kids and see what they have got. In blooding the kids you get that natural evolution of the list and style of play that we need to remain competitive.

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

higgo a contributor to this

it as all because we are not running

we are not running
we are not running
we are not running
we are not running

Would love to know what our work load this pre-season compared too the last two.
To be honest we have not looked so unfit for ages.
Maybe by design perhaps.

 

[Cdog71]

Just a theory...
Hardwick is an accountant, a numbers guy and we’ve got our own stats team that collect data.
Maybe the FD is coming to grips with what changes and different outcomes come about with the 666. I mean running patterns and where they may end up on the field in the event of a goal and extra running they might do and also without the runners (and now leaders) on the field to push rotations.
Going with the same system as last year they’ll get an accurate read on what’s affected currently in the system the FD knows.

 

[dean33]

Stop the long high bomb up forward to Lynch/Reiwoldt in the hope that Butts/Casta/Rioli will crumb and apply pressure.
With Lynch the only tall, taller backs are going to easily intercept.
Reckon little 20/30 mt chips into leading space would be more effective (as seen by Pies).

Or as seen by us in 2017/18. Agree though, the long bombs reminds me of the days with richo being double and triple teamed and still kicking it to him. We’ve been so good the last 2 years with our run and carry game, lowering our eyes and kicking it to so many different options up fwd. That along with our manic pressure is our 1 wood(in the words of dimma).
I think our main issue is we have gone away from that as I’m not convinced that Club’s have worked us out we just aren’t working hard enough and playing dumb football.

 

[Lsta062]

Hardwick said something in a recent interview that gave me pause for thought. Paraphrasing he said something like we may have been too advanced in our pre-season preparations last year (which probably resulted in us peaking too early and petering out come finals time.)
Did we perhaps hold back over the pre-season with the intention to use the first few rounds to sort of 'run us in' to the remaining rounds, timing our peak towards the latter half of the season?

If that’s true (and I don’t want to believe he intentionally held our players back in the off-season), then that would have been one of the worst things he could have done to prepare the players for the season and a massive overreaction to the PF loss. Confidence in ourselves was a big thing in carrying us throughout the years, and it started with good form. In 2017 and 2018 (our most successful years in a long time) we started the year in good form. 5-0 in 2017 and something like 7-1 or 8-1 in 2018.

I personally don’t think he made that comment to suggest he held the players back over the summer. I just think that the players just ended up not being conditioned very well at the beginning of the season for one reason or another and he just stated that it may not be a bad thing. Well, at least I hope so.

 

[Bojangles17]

The game plan hasn’t become redundant , heck the cats have successfully imported new recruits into the side to create that manic forward pressure , looking very good at it too
Our problem v the pies is that role players where well off contributing what’s req in their role , the small forwards , dusty , astbury , lambo and his Midfield mates . Dimma needs to find players that will play their role ,EG that is more than 1 tackle in a game and then restructure the defence.
Put all that aside I will ad that our forward line was misfiring like a clapped out Moris minor the other night , jack and lynch with totally zero symmetry. Much more thought needs to go into making this pair a potent force. Right now we ve replaced jacks goals with lynch goals with fa assists. I think lynch should play high , give us a target going up the lines

 

[Sir_Loin]

Reckon we’re on the right track. So far so good, all signs point to another premiership in 2018

 

[Bojangles17]

One thing we could adapt from other sides is like TI mentioned , we d be better placed using mids as small forwards like Coll and others do. Right now we have a couple of blokes that couldn’t get a kick in a stampede being picked off by oppo HBF that are racking it up , I’m a great believer that when the oppo defence has it in their hands 25 times it means we haven’t got it 25 times