Do we p**s up 1st round picks?

[King Corey]

What do you guys reckon?

1993- Adam Simpson
1994- Traded as part of package for Robert Scott
1995- Scott Welsh- traded as part of Leigh Colbert/David Calthorpe deal
1996- Evan Hewitt - traded for 2nd round selection to Crows
1997- Shannon Watt- late maturer hopefully
1998- Brady Rawlings - noone seems convinced
1999- Traded as part of package for Leigh Colbert
2000- Dylan Smith (will take 1st selection for this post)
2001- David Hale (ditto)

From 9 drafts, we have 1 bona fide champion from our 1st round picks. Forget everyone whining about how when you're successful you can't get decent selections etc.. All of the above were top 18 picks except for Hewitt (23).

Not a pretty strike rate. I'm curious what Essendon's strike rate over the same period is. Or Collingwoods since 1997 with Judkins at the helm.

Have we overlooked the responsibility of the recruiters? We haven't really had much success with kids fresh from the vic U/18 comp in the draft..

 

[Passmore]

I've been thinking the same thing for a while KC. Our second round draft picks seem just as poor

93 Mark Stevens Traded for Big Jase
94 Danny Stevens Didn't cut it
95 Chris Groom Ditto
96 Martin Pike Quality
97 Brad Stephens at 27 and Paul McMahon at 30 who???
98 Garry Dhurrkay shouldn't have pushed our luck after Winnie
99 Traded for Piggy

Hopefully the 2000 and 2001 will be more successful

It would be interesting to compare the average games our u18 draftees have played against those of other club. At a guess ours would be pretty ordinary.

 

[Rooboy 96]

14... 1993- Adam Simpson agree absolute champion... but took several years of tagging opposition players to get to that status...
17... 1994- Robert Scott - played a part in a premiership... happy with that trade
17... 1995- Scott Welsh- was always going to return home after the death of his brother
23... 1996- Evan Hewitt - a lot of talent but no heart
14... 1997- Shannon Watt- had big wraps...
15... 1998- Brady Rawlings - I like him but I seem to be by myself with this...
15... 1999- Colbert - hindsight???

too early to tell... for purpose of argument will not count these as yet...
6... 2000- Dylan Smith 8... Daniel Motlop 14... Daniel Harris
7... 2001- David Hale 14... Ashley Watson


King Corey... I tend to agree with you that we don't seem to have young players developed from our early draft picks... however this has far more to do with us being successful... as you can see the picks have been 14-23 until two years ago... you show me another club that has had better success with picks 14... 14... 15...15... 17... 17... and 23... over a seven year period... that is why the draft was brought in... to make sure teams don't stay at the top for more then 5 years... look at Essendon... the wheels are already falling off... who is their number one ruck???

In five years time let us check the five first round selection we have had over the last two years... who said we are not rebuilding???

 

[Rooboy 96]

Originally posted by Passmore
and Paul McMahon at 30 who???

I am told his sister plays a mean game of netball...

 

[moomba]

One thing I will say in the clubs defence is that is has only been the last two years where the draft depth has extended right to the end of the first round which is where our picks have usually been.

Terry Wallace said on the radio a while back that all clubs expect a first round draft pick of the past two years to play 150 games for the club at a minimum. I think our last couple of years draft picks were chosen with an eye on the future and I am hoping that we will soon see the benefits of our 5 first round draft picks of the last couple of years.

I think the club has now got itself in a pretty good position where we have got some potential club champions of the future developing in the reserves. I hope the 200 class is ready to take the next step this year, and it probably won't be for another year or more that the 2001 comes into view. It is pretty exciting to have these young kids waiting to come into the side and while there may be the odd stuff up I think we will be tremendously unlucky not to have three or four future Roo champs coming out of these last two drafts

Moomba

 

[Malibu]

Originally posted by Rooboy 96


I am told his sister plays a mean game of netball...

He was playing with North Ballarat last year (Paul that is, not Narelle or whatever her name is), interesting to see if he's playing against the Muzza's this Sunday.

 

[Melly017]

All of those years, barr a couple, we finished in the top 4

pick's 12 to 16 were our first pick's

The cost of trading to get early pick's is a gamble

i can not believe that people are having a dig at this given our performance over the last 10 years.

The draft is in to even out the comp, if it wasn't for the draft we would most likley be gone.

When you have a dig like this, tell the whole story of the dept.

Carey, Longmire got for a slab of beer and $20,000, Pickett, Kingy, Blakes (that was another bad one), Grant, Bell, Fridge, Scotty the list goes on and on

 

[roowatch]

I think the only realistic criticism that can be levelled at drafting will come when we can look back on 2000 and 2001 drafts - and it is still too early to call.

Prior to that we were a power, traded/drafted with a view to remaining a power, which I believe was right when we still had Carey, Archer, Stevens, King, Pickett,etc,etc.

Young players picked up before 2000 were never given much of a chance as we pursuesd success.

2000 saw the first deliberate effort to add to stocks by picking quality young players from a position of strength in the draft. So far we have not been rewarded for this, and if these players (Smith,Harris,Motlop, Watson,Hale) do not develop then in a couple of years we will be right to criticise the recruiting people - if they're still around.

 

[Avenger]

Stuart Cochrane was taken as our Priority pick in the Preseason Draft , late 1995 , as compensation for the loss of Peter Mann to Fremantle.
What might have been?

 

[Ausgard]

Peter Mann turned out to be a bit of a dude for Freo anyway so Cochrane still might turn out to be a good choice

(at the time Peter Mann was a pretty bad loss for us though)

 

[Rooboy 96]

Originally posted by Avenger
Stuart Cochrane was taken as our Priority pick in the Preseason Draft , late 1995 , as compensation for the loss of Peter Mann to Fremantle.
What might have been?

So who should have we taken??? King and Lloyd were gone... and it had to be a 16 year old... was always going to be a risk...

 

[Ausgard]

Originally posted by Rooboy 96


So who should have we taken??? King and Lloyd were gone... and it had to be a 16 year old... was always going to be a risk...

Does anyone know who else was around at that time ?

Was Lucas in that Draft ?

I'm sure there was someone good picked up at number forty something that we can kick ourselves to death over

 

[Rooboy 96]

Originally posted by Ausgard


Does anyone know who else was around at that time ?

Was Lucas in that Draft ?

I'm sure there was someone good picked up at number forty something that we can kick ourselves to death over

he would have been 17 not 16...

the next draft is where you have to look...

it was shocking concession...

 

[Avenger]

For one there was a kid playing for Eastern 18 at the time called David Wirrpunda.

 

[BW]

Top post King Corey, love ya draft stats dont ya

 

[Carlos]

Originally posted by blueworms
Top post King Corey, love ya draft stats dont ya

Oh yeah! The guy is a guru when it comes to draft info!! Amazes me!!

 

[windsock]

Steven King wasn't gone. We finished below Geelong that year, giving us the choice before them. (Remember Gazza's goal after the siren?) By the way we weren't the onl;y ones to stuff up. Melb chose David Cockatoo Collins, Hawthorn picked David McEwan. Geelong had another pick but I can't remember who else they chose.

 

[tashibatts]

I am sure if Hale can bulk up (Start fattenin up Hale, I want u in hte frying pan {on the field} next year!)

Pity we lost Walsh

Go Roos

 

[moomba]

Originally posted by windsock
Steven King wasn't gone. We finished below Geelong that year, giving us the choice before them. (Remember Gazza's goal after the siren?) By the way we weren't the onl;y ones to stuff up. Melb chose David Cockatoo Collins, Hawthorn picked David McEwan. Geelong had another pick but I can't remember who else they chose.

1995 pre-season compensation picks were

1. Mathew Lloyd - Essendon
2. Adam Houlihan - Geelong
3. Steven King - Geelong
4. David McEwan - Hawthorn
5. David Cockatoo-Collins - Melbourne
6. Stuart Cochrane - North Melbourne
7. Chad Morrison - West Coast

Moomba

 

[Avenger]

Originally posted by windsock
Steven King wasn't gone. We finished below Geelong that year, giving us the choice before them. (Remember Gazza's goal after the siren?) By the way we weren't the onl;y ones to stuff up. Melb chose David Cockatoo Collins, Hawthorn picked David McEwan. Geelong had another pick but I can't remember who else they chose.

Adam Houlihan

Ironically both Steven King and Adam Houlighan came from the Murray 18's..

 

[moomba]

Originally posted by Rooboy 96


he would have been 17 not 16...

the next draft is where you have to look...

it was shocking concession...

First 20 picks of the next draft follow. I am not sure of those that would have been available as 16yr old concession picks but I have marked everyone drafted from the U18's with a ***.

1. Clive Waterhouse Fremantle
2. Matthew Primus Fitzroy
3. Brendon Fewster West Coast
4. Scott Bamford Fitzroy
5. Brendan Krummel Hawthorn
6. Daniel Healy St. Kilda
7. Ben Edwards Fremantle
8. Jared Crouch Sydney
9. Allen Jakovich Footscray
10. Simon Prestigiacomo Collingwood ***
11. Don Cockatoo-Collins Melbourne
12. Andrew Gowling Brisbane
13. Brad Rowe Fremantle
14. Luke Trew West Coast ***
15. Darren Wheildon Essendon
16. Shane Clayton Fitzroy ***
17. Scott Welsh Nth Melbourne
18. Brent Williams Adelaide ***
19. Barry Hall St. Kilda ***
20. Nick Carter Fitzroy ***

Leigh Marshall and Ben Matthews were U18 players picked up by Sydney in pre-draft picks. Brent Harvey was picked up at no.48 I think Wirrpunda was picked up as a 16 year old compensation pick in the 96 pre-season draft.

Moomba

 

[windsock]

Originally posted by moomba


1995 pre-season compensation picks were

1. Mathew Lloyd - Essendon
2. Adam Houlihan - Geelong
3. Steven King - Geelong
4. David McEwan - Hawthorn
5. David Cockatoo-Collins - Melbourne
6. Stuart Cochrane - North Melbourne
7. Chad Morrison - West Coast

Moomba

I'm not doubting your info Moomba but how did the Cats get their picks before us when we finished below them?
BTW Chad Morrison would have been a handy pick up. To add insult to injury his bro played at North in the 3rds making Chad a player from our old zone.

 

[moomba]

Originally posted by windsock


I'm not doubting your info Moomba but how did the Cats get their picks before us when we finished below them?
BTW Chad Morrison would have been a handy pick up. To add insult to injury his bro played at North in the 3rds making Chad a player from our old zone.

Bit of a search found http://www.comcen.com.au/~weaver/

I am not sure about the draft order but I have a vague feeling that it may have been decided on ladder positions after each side had played every other side once during the 94 season.

I also have a vague recollection that Essendon gave a few players to Freo (Delaney, Kickett) to ensure that that they would not recruit an uncontracted player from a club lower than them. This ensured they had the no 1 pick and they could get Lloyd.

Moomba

 

[King Corey]

A couple of quickies--

Scott Welsh's return is not questioned. What is questioned is the value of that pick. Our 1st round pick = Scott Welsh = 1/5 Leigh Colbert + David Calthorpe.

Not a great return.

McMahon's sister is Aussie netball champion Sharelle. Juliette Lewis lookalike who's been on 'the Panel' etc.

Bombres got the cream of the compo picks with Lloyd. But we still passed on Chad Morrison! (admittedly Cochrane was highly rated as a young CHB? at the time)

But where I was going was that we are far more astute with our late picks than our early ones.

eg - 1998 - last 3 picks - Adam Lange, Shannon Motlop, Shane Clayton. Probably the best of the 7 we took that year.

Barry Hall as a compo pick would've been alright! Unsure if the clubs were restricted to their own state.

 

[the_oracle]

A topic very close to my heart at the moment and even previously.

You can get a club by club view of drafting history by looking at the AFL (evil) site at

www.afl.com.au/default.asp?pg=draft&spg=alltimedraftlt

It does highlite i feel that our returns for whatever reasons have been pretty poor especially from first and second round picks where your 'stars' should be found over the years.

Its been frustrating watching the Geelong boys and all these other kids play and show a bit when you know that we've got 5 first round picks in the last 2 years showing us little to this point.

I also accept that its still to early to tell at this stage about the last 2 years but bloody hell i'm hoping and i'm hoping like mad.

It was interesting to hear david parkin talk about the top 3 picks of last year. he seemed to say that the hawks really only had those 3 in the final mix and stated that ball wasn't picked because it was going to be years before he became a player whereas the other 2 in particular hodge were going to be quicker developers.

having said that he rated all 3 highly.

i'm just hoping our blokes are like that too.