Toast Do we underrate Ricky Henderson?

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Brant

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It's hard to believe Henderson still hasn't been offered a new contract yet. Of all the players who are out of contract on the list he should be the first one to be given a new deal! Unless there's another club sniffing around. :think:
Why though?

What's in it for HFC to offer now as opposed to say in Sept./Oct.?
 

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Simon Crawshay

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Funny to think that some on this board wanted him dropped to make way for Sculley! Nothing against Sculley but Hendo can do it all, a big body that can run all day racking up big numbers, accurate disposal, take contested marks in the back line, kick checkside goals from 50m out on the boundary whereas Sculley is really an elite runner who gets 20 disposals a week and that is about it (again nothing against Sculley but I consider that a fair comparison).
Hendo made Kane Cornes team of the week (again) this week so he would have to be an excellent shot at making AA on the wing.
 

rogiebear93

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Funny to think that some on this board wanted him dropped to make way for Sculley! Nothing against Sculley but Hendo can do it all, a big body that can run all day racking up big numbers, accurate disposal, take contested marks in the back line, kick checkside goals from 50m out on the boundary whereas Sculley is really an elite runner who gets 20 disposals a week and that is about it (again nothing against Sculley but I consider that a fair comparison).
Hendo made Kane Cornes team of the week (again) this week so he would have to be an excellent shot at making AA on the wing.
I don't think anyone could have reasonably predicted that he would increase his output to career highs in almost every statistic after turning 30. This is borderline unprecedented.
 

Simon Crawshay

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I don't think anyone could have reasonably predicted that he would increase his output to career highs in almost every statistic after turning 30. This is borderline unprecedented.
Not to blow my on trumpet but check out my quote below I made in March about my man Hendos 2018 season and his potential to step it up in 2019 :)
Still underrated by most.

To be ranked 19th in total marks and 16th in total bounces is a more than decent achievement.

No reason he can't step up another level in 2019, he has improved every year he has been an the Hawks and looks in great physical nick.
 

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Simon Crawshay

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Why though?

What's in it for HFC to offer now as opposed to say in Sept./Oct.?
All I will say is that if we are a club that paid Tyrone Vickery 1.5 mil to play a handful of bog ordinary games over 3 years we better reward Hendo for paying him minimum wage to pay 50+ great games over the same time period. Pay the man Graham Wright!
 

Brant

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All I will say is that if we are a club that paid Tyrone Vickery 1.5 mil to play a handful of bog ordinary games over 3 years we better reward Hendo for paying him minimum wage to pay 50+ great games over the same time period. Pay the man Graham Wright!
Mate, I'm sure we've been paying him!

Probs in accordance with his existing contract, which hopefully for him includes performance bonuses & a bonus for AA & B&F.

*Vickery didn't play the 3rd year so didn't get paid $1.5m
 

Simon Crawshay

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Mate, I'm sure we've been paying him!

Probs in accordance with his existing contract, which hopefully for him includes performance bonuses & a bonus for AA & B&F.

*Vickery didn't play the 3rd year so didn't get paid $1.5m
Sure we are paying him, but are we paying him at a level that is commensurate with his stellar performances so far?

And I am not so sure about us not paying Tyrone for his 3rd year, that was a very murky deal at the time and it has always been unclear as to the exact length of his contract. Far out, Richmond must have walked away with a grin like a Cheshire cat the day they offloaded that lemon onto us.

Regardless, he deserves to get paid serious coin for his next contract. And I don't think his age should come into it really. Personally I would be a lot more confident of the output we are going to get out of Hendo over the next 3 years compared to the output of some players 5 years his junior.
 

Brant

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Sure we are paying him, but are we paying him at a level that is commensurate with his stellar performances so far?

And I am not so sure about us not paying Tyrone for his 3rd year, that was a very murky deal at the time and it has always been unclear as to the exact length of his contract. Far out, Richmond must have walked away with a grin like a Cheshire cat the day they offloaded that lemon onto us.

Regardless, he deserves to get paid serious coin for his next contract. And I don't think his age should come into it really. Personally I would be a lot more confident of the output we are going to get out of Hendo over the next 3 years compared to the output of some players 5 years his junior.
It's implied in every player's contract that they perform to 100% of their capability etc., they sign to a specified amount based on what both parties agree that looks like, after considering environmental factors such as demand from other clubs etc. Bonus schemes are where payments for 'over performing' are made, but even then, they'll likely be tied to outcomes (AA, Crimmins Medal performance etc.), not just a feeling that he's played awesome.

I'd be very surprised if we offered a player an inflated next contract, based on how he performed last contract.
 

Simon Crawshay

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It's implied in every player's contract that they perform to 100% of their capability etc., they sign to a specified amount based on what both parties agree that looks like, after considering environmental factors such as demand from other clubs etc. Bonus schemes are where payments for 'over performing' are made, but even then, they'll likely be tied to outcomes (AA, Crimmins Medal performance etc.), not just a feeling that he's played awesome.

I'd be very surprised if we offered a player an inflated next contract, based on how he performed last contract.
Call me old fashioned but I like to think that you get paid in relative terms to what you put in. Surely Hendo's next contract will reflect his higher standing in the game due to his performances of the last three years? I am not saying the club give him superstar money but if he has been on say $300k a year (just a guess) that would surely jump to at least $500k a year with performance bonuses for AA, B&F, etc.
 

Brant

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Call me old fashioned but I like to think that you get paid in relative terms to what you put in. Surely Hendo's next contract will reflect his higher standing in the game due to his performances of the last three years? I am not saying the club give him superstar money but if he has been on say $300k a year (just a guess) that would surely jump to at least $500k a year with performance bonuses for AA, B&F, etc.
I disagree (not saying you're wrong - I'd just do it completely the other way).

This is the reason that we give guys over 30yrs just 1x year deals. We don't overpay for what they did last contract - we pay in accordance with what they're likely to deliver next year. After all, that's the contract period we're entering so it should be paid on its merits.

I think where we disagree is that you feel Hendo should be retrospectively rewarded for having a breakout season (2019) & should be rewarded/compensated for it in 2020-2022. My point is that his 2020-? contract should be based around what he'll deliver in that period - not what he delivered in 2019.

Put it this way: Paying guys overs for what they've previously delivered is how Hannerbury ends up on 5yr deals @ $700k, despite being broken. What we do is limit out exposure, knowing that even champions can have relatively sudden declines in form/fitness (Gibbo, J. Lewis et al.), especially when aged 30+ (which appears to be our nominal age, not necessarily based on science as all bodies are different).

Hence, I hope we offer Hendo a deal commensurate to what he'll deliver in 2020, loaded with performance bonuses so that he is fairly incentivised to continue performing highly, whilst insulating us from a long-term/money 'zombie' contract if his form/fitness drops off.


* as for $300k becoming $500k: give him a $300k base & allow him to make $600k with bonuses as opposed to a flat $500k.
 

Simon Crawshay

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I disagree (not saying you're wrong - I'd just do it completely the other way).

This is the reason that we give guys over 30yrs just 1x year deals. We don't overpay for what they did last contract - we pay in accordance with what they're likely to deliver next year. After all, that's the contract period we're entering so it should be paid on its merits.

I think where we disagree is that you feel Hendo should be retrospectively rewarded for having a breakout season (2019) & should be rewarded/compensated for it in 2020-2022. My point is that his 2020-? contract should be based around what he'll deliver in that period - not what he delivered in 2019.

Put it this way: Paying guys overs for what they've previously delivered is how Hannerbury ends up on 5yr deals @ $700k, despite being broken. What we do is limit out exposure, knowing that even champions can have relatively sudden declines in form/fitness (Gibbo, J. Lewis et al.), especially when aged 30+ (which appears to be our nominal age, not necessarily based on science as all bodies are different).

Hence, I hope we offer Hendo a deal commensurate to what he'll deliver in 2020, loaded with performance bonuses so that he is fairly incentivised to continue performing highly, whilst insulating us from a long-term/money 'zombie' contract if his form/fitness drops off.


* as for $300k becoming $500k: give him a $300k base & allow him to make $600k with bonuses as opposed to a flat $500k.
The difference between Hendo and Hannerbury is that Hannerburys body has been shot the last 2 years whereas Hendo is in absolute peak condition.
Some athletes do hit the wall when they turn 30 but others (Jordan, Federer, Nadal, LeBron) can actually keep improving. Hendo has that rangy Michael Tuck type build that is very durable as well.
I feel that Hendo can easily maintain his for for at least the next two years. I would predict that if we dont come to the table with an adquate contract other clubs (especially those in the premeirship window) will come knocking on his door with some lucrative offers.
 

Brant

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The difference between Hendo and Hannerbury is that Hannerburys body has been shot the last 2 years whereas Hendo is in absolute peak condition.
Some athletes do hit the wall when they turn 30 but others (Jordan, Federer, Nadal, LeBron) can actually keep improving. Hendo has that rangy Michael Tuck type build that is very durable as well.
I feel that Hendo can easily maintain his for for at least the next two years. I would predict that if we dont come to the table with an adquate contract other clubs (especially those in the premeirship window) will come knocking on his door with some lucrative offers.
Lucrative offers means they have to pay handsomely at the Trade Table as well, which for a 31yr old, isn't the worst outcome.

If he ended up getting a 3yr deal at <insert club here> & they gave us their 1st (we throw in our 3rd etc.) then we'd be better for it.
 

nickrebellious

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Lucrative offers means they have to pay handsomely at the Trade Table as well, which for a 31yr old, isn't the worst outcome.

If he ended up getting a 3yr deal at <insert club here> & they gave us their 1st (we throw in our 3rd etc.) then we'd be better for it.
Henderson might be a UFA this year. A change to free agency was made earlier in the year:

  • A Player previously delisted by any Club (Delisted Free Agent) will be a Delisted Free Agent at the end of each subsequent contract.
However, not sure if he qualifies because he was delisted before the change and I haven't seen his name appear on any free agency lists.
 

cryptor

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Don’t worry people. The club isn’t going to lose Hendo over something like that. Both club and player have done the right thing by each other since he made the move. I expect he’ll play out the rest of his career happy as a Hawk.

Only way I see him playing elsewhere is if we agree to trade him to give him a chance to win a flag at a club who are on the cusp. But that club could be us if this trade period goes well.

I certainly can’t see him walking out on us for little to nothing.
 

4THAWN

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Deserves another contract no doubt, unfortunately for Ricky he will probably lose some hard earned coin because of his super late career peak.

Had he been 27 years old and playing a season like this, he would be offered a 4 year 700k contract easily
 

Simon Crawshay

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Deserves another contract no doubt, unfortunately for Ricky he will probably lose some hard earned coin because of his super late career peak.

Had he been 27 years old and playing a season like this, he would be offered a 4 year 700k contract easily
Yeh, 4 years at 700k isn't going to happen but I still think 2 years at say $450k with some heavy performance based incentives to bump it up to say $600k is justified. I am sure you will get excellent value out of Hendo with such a contract.
 

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