Do we work too much nowdays?

[sbagman]

I was wondering whether people thought we work too much nowdays to devote time to things such as family,community, individual pursuits, etc.

I was reading an excerpt from a book called "A Better Place To Live", and it used this interesting example to illustrate how (Americans at least) work longer hours. In a book from the 1950's, "The Organization Man", a photo showed how hardworking corporate managers were, all standing on a train platform in Chicago. The photo was to illustrate what a "herd-like existence" these men lead. The time on the clock on the platform was 4.51pm. Nowdays we would all remark how early they clocked off!

Thoughts?

 

[AlfAndrews]

Many years ago a wise old man told me "a penny saved is a penny earned". And, yes ... it was still pennies in those days ... 1965 it was. I was 10.

At the time I thought it was just one of those boring things that old people say ... but I later came to see the sense of it.

During my adult life ... I'm now 47 ... I have spent a total of 5 years in full-time employment. And I can tell you, quite categorically, that these were the most miserable years of my life. I had money. I hated my life. So, I spent my money trying to feel good about myself. In my case this involved a lot of escapism ... running away from reality ... boozing ... drugging. I would usually be broke and borrowing money off people long before pay-day came around again.

These were 5 WASTED years. Absolutely NOTHING good came out of them.

My last full-time job was in 1985 and it nearly killled me.

Since then I've lived well below what many people would consider the "poverty line". But I've learned to get by.

Essentially there are two ways of getting by.

1. Increase your income till you can afford all the things you want.

2. Reduce your material wants until your income is sufficient to provide for them.

Acting belatedly on the advice of that boring old man back in 1965, I have chosen the latter option. And I've found that most material things that people consider essential are not only unneccesary, but actually detract from one's enjoyment of life.

For example ... I no longer own a motor vehicle. People wonder how I cope. Yeah, it's tough. Not having to find a park. Not having to pay for a park. Not having to cough up for registration ... or repairs. Not having to put up with road rage (either my own or other people's) ... Not getting smashed up in accidents ... Not having to hunt around for the best petrol prices.

There's a lot of "pennies" involved in running a car. And I mean a LOT of pennies. So, by making a decision NOT to own a car, I am, in fact "earning" a LOT OF PENNIES.

I'm automatically way ahead of the person who chooses to drive a car and then has to work all those extra hours to earn all those extra pennies to pay for it.

This is just one example ... but in our car-obsessed society it's a big one.

Another good example is blatantly self-destructive habits like smoking, drinking and drugging. Many people regard these pastimes as essential to their enjoyment of life. By giving these things up I've had to redefine my notion of "enjoyment". But several years of clean-living have proven to me that I'm much better off without these expensive and destructive habits.

And, of course ... every day that goes by without me indulging in my old pastimes of drinking, drugging and smoking means a lot of "pennies" saved. Which, according to that old man in 1965, means a lot of pennies "earned". I'm way ahead of the poor codger who's working to pay for his self-destructive so-called "pleasures".

People today are working their arses off to pay for a lifestyle that they have been taught to regard as essential to their happiness. Their real material needs could be satisfied by working probably a third of the hours that they work. (Obviously, I speak very generally here. Every person's situation is different)

The key to material survival is simplicity, I believe. Simplify your wants. Find efficient ways to satisfy your needs. Pursue those things that are good for the soul. Be a creative person rather than a consumer of other people's creativity. And shun those things that not only cost you a lot of time and money, but also actively damage you.

As a wise old man told me in 1965 ...

... a penny saved is a penny earned.

 

[Zombie]

So what do you actually do?

 

[sandeano]

By giving these things up I've had to redefine my notion of "enjoyment". But several years of clean-living have proven to me that I'm much better off without these expensive and destructive habits.

But you still fork out for a Collingwood membership????

Just kidding! Yeah, you are spot on though. When you start paying no attention to advertising and public perceptions of where you should be financially, materially and socially at whatever point of your life and be content doin' your own thing, then you'll ind how little money you actually need.

And, in turn, how less work you actually have to do.

Mind you, I'm a public servant...so I doubt if I really count

 

[Voice of Reason]

Do any of you lot actually have children or other dependents?

Daddy 4 eyes on the Eagles board definitely does not work too hard. I know many young people (say in the 14-25 age group), who seem to think that the world owes them a living. Some are so lazy that they achieve nothing with their lives - and still they're unhappy.

So, being the VoR (and another of those tedious Libertarian Lefties), I think a reasonable amount of work is good for people, but not too much and not too little for each person's personality-type.

 

[AlfAndrews]

Originally posted by Zombie
So what do you actually do?

That's between me and my case worker.

Nah ... no great secret.

16 hours per week community work under "mutual obligation".

6 hours in an op shop. 10 hours at a community radio station. It's all legal and above-board. Approved by Centrelink ... rah rah rah ... so, if you're thinking of getting on my case about it, save your breath.

That's how I pay the bills.

But as for what I actually do, I'm a musician. I don't make a cent from music ... but it's my life.

 

[sandeano]

6 hours in an op shop.

Tell me Alf, is it true that when items are donated to op shops that the staff go trough them first, thinking "my neice would like that" or "just what I needed to fix the oven door". They then pay a nominal price and then the average customer is left with the slimmest of pickings after the staff have nabbed all the good stuff?

 

[AlfAndrews]

Originally posted by sandeano
6 hours in an op shop.

Tell me Alf, is it true that when items are donated to op shops that the staff go trough them first, thinking "my neice would like that" or "just what I needed to fix the oven door". They then pay a nominal price and then the average customer is left with the slimmest of pickings after the staff have nabbed all the good stuff?

I suppose it probably happens.

At our shop, not everything that gets donated finishes up going on sale. In the case of clothes we only put clean stuff in good condition up for sale. The rest gets thrown out. Washing and repairing all the dodgy stuff that comes into the shop would take much too long. We just don't have the staff to do it. So, if I see anything among the stuff that's going to get thrown out that looks like it might be salvagable I'll take it home, give it a wash ... and bingo ... my new "designer" outfit.

We also get a lot of books donated. What sometimes happens is that staff members who see a book they like will take it home and read it, then bring it back and put it on sale when they've finished it.

CDs are interesting too. A couple of the CDs that I play on my radio show are actually do-it-yourself home recordings by local bands that have somehow finished up in our shop. In these cases I actually buy them myself. I figure I'm doing a service to the artists by giving them airplay ... so my social conscience is clear. We also get a few commercially released albums donated. The going rate for CDs in our shop is $2. I don't buy the commercially released stuff. I'm only interested in the "obscure" stuff.

Actually op shops are a classic example of what I was on about before. It's incredible what people in this affluent society throw away. You can walk into an op shop and spend $5 or $10 on an item of clothing that some hard working person might have paid $49.95 for, worn half a dozen times, and then thrown out.

 

[sandeano]

yeah, that's fair enough.

Hey, what do you think of the corporate op shops? The likes of the "Savers" chain, which distributes a certain amount to charitible organizations and keeps the rest for profit?

I suppose that in theory, if the por and needy are benefitting at all then they are probably worthwhile, but the thought of some company making a buck off of someone's good intentions and someone's needs sorta stinks to me.

 

[Hurricane75]

The key to success is to do what you love.

I work full time and love it. I get paid well for it and find it very rewarding.

In fact I hate taking days of work because I find it so boring if I'm just hanging around the house. I think you need to be mentally stimulated or else you go insane.

The hours I work don't bother me because I'm amongst friends at work, so its just like hanging out.

A working life doesn't have to be a miserable life.

Each to their own.

 

[Docker_Brat]

Originally posted by AlfAndrews
Actually op shops are a classic example of what I was on about before. It's incredible what people in this affluent society throw away. You can walk into an op shop and spend $5 or $10 on an item of clothing that some hard working person might have paid $49.95 for, worn half a dozen times, and then thrown out.

Yeah I've learned that one in recent times and it's not only op shops you can pick stuff like that up. Bought a $100 shirt recently for $10, easy.

 

[Frodo]

Interesting thread.

Many years ago there was a big debate on what people would do with their free time because automation would vastly reduce the workforce and 3 day weeks were envisaged.
The result of the debate was that their would be heaps of leisure time and billions were invested into leisure industries.
But they got it wrong. What they missed is that people need a purpose in life. Just see what happens to retrenched people with no job. They can get suicidal. It even happens at retirement. I knoe heaps of people that have hit 65, retired and died within 2 years. They lose their will and their purpose.
The result has been the creation of pseudo purposes / jobs. Environmentalists, researchers, statisticians etc that believe strongly in their purpose yet are defacto unemployed people not on the register but being funded by the taxpayer.
The richer the country the more they can afford. Australia is rich. How many greenies are there in poor countries. Creating these jobs is the western worlds answer to the pain of unemployment.

(it may be that the muslim worlds answer is a jihad or two)

 

[sbagman]

My initial question centred around not whether people should work or not, but whether the balance between work and things like family, community, free time etc was right. Do people feel that working hours allow people to participate in these things enough? Or is their importance diminished?

 

[knuckles]

I think you can't do much about the balance. The problem is that free time usually costs $. You need to work to get $ - normally.
Both parents working has become more a necessity, than a way to squirrel extra dough. Nothing to do with spending it on cars, etc which can still be procured at a low cost if you are not fussy. Problem is the cost of a decent house in a decent area, and a decent education. New housing developments provide decent houses, but in questionable areas. I went to a govt school all the way to Uni, but I would take a guess that that the Public shool system has only got worse since the 70/80s. So both parents working is needed to fund a $400K mortgage, and private school fees.
I don't consider working 50 hrs a week too much. Problem is that M-F is pretty much a write off in terms of leisure time, and Sat is usually tied up with domestic chores, which leaves Sunday.
Allowing the import of domestic help from 3rd world countries may become a necessity soon to free up 2 parent working families from chewing up time with a myriad of house chores.

For the first time since the industrial revolution, a whole generation of youth will begin to inherit bucket loads of $$ from baby-boomers in about 10-20 years time (wars eleminated plenty of personal $). Will make for an even moreinteresting socio-economic change.