Analysis Do Witts and Grundy work as a combo?

[Kappa]

They were completely embarrased today by another young ruck combo in Sinclair + Natanui.

Neither of them can take a contested mark to save their lives, and even their uncontested marking was poor. Neither of them is a threat up forward because they simply can't take strong marks. Around the ground Witts is a liability, and having both of them leaves us a runner short through the midfield.

Jessie White is doing nothing up forward anyway, we are much better to have him as our 2nd ruckmen and swap either Witts/Grundy for another genuine forward or midfielder.

Thoughts?

 

[Baird]

No, Witts is a massive liability. I don't see much difference between him and Warnock tbh.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Thoughts are that we need to persevere.

The Cloke injury will force our hand anyway so the debate is pointless.

 

[Kappa]

No, Witts is a massive liability. I don't see much difference between him and Warnock tbh.

A lot of people seem convinced he will end up being a star... I'd be very happy to trade him to GWS while his currency is high.

 

[Jelly Bean]

Hopefully everyone has come around to ths now. The two can't be in our best 22 together. Neither can mark the ball around the ground or in the forwardline in contested or semi-contested situations often enough. Grundy had a couple of opportunties in the goalsquare tonight that he really should have taken, but couldb't grasp them.

 

[Kappa]

Thoughts are that we need to persevere.

The Cloke injury will force our hand anyway so the debate is pointless.

Considering these two could be our ruckmen for the next 10 years, the debate is actually crucial to our structure going forward.

 

[Nicco_jj]

In fairness, Naitanui has been in crazy form for the last month, and he himself showed only glimpses of greatness in his first 3 years.

Sinclair, though, was frustrating. They should have done better on him.

I think they don't really work as a duo yet. I am hoping that this will improve the longer they play together. There is no doubt that they both play "better" as the sole ruckman. But that is the way with most (other than the Cox/Nic Nat combo) 'number one' ruckmen. What I mean to say is that Goldstein and HMac used to never work well together cause they were both capable no.1 ruckmen. Those kind of ruckmen struggle to share duties. Witts and Grundy are both No.1 ruckmen atm. Neither of them is clearly better forward than the other. I think they can and will learn, but it will be a long, slow learning curve.

 

[Nicco_jj]

Hopefully everyone has come around to ths now. The two can't be in our best 22 together. Neither can mark the ball around the ground or in the forwardline in contested or semi-contested situations often enough. Grundy had a couple of opportunties in the goalsquare tonight that he really should have taken, but couldb't grasp them.

Luckily marking and general skills improve with age, experience and coaching.


If one of them was completely missing a hand or arm, then I'd say your point about them not being able to mark was valid.

 

[Pies_10]

Definitely Grundy is going to be the better player.

 

[Shaneprice97]

Both scored a goal, something White cant say he did.

Play them together.

 

[Copeland]

Their improvement is incremental if at all.

 

[Kappa]

Both scored a goal, something White cant say he did.

Play them together.

How did they get their goals?

Grundy snuck out the backdoor and got a cheapie, Witts got a cheap free in the goal square when Fasolo took a strong mark in front of him...

Neither are actually doing what a tall should and TAKE CONTESTED MARKS!!!

 

[danielnajdek]

Only thing that shitted me was Witts poor miss at goal. Should never ever miss those. Not acceptable.

 

[frizzle]

Both are still learning their trade. May not be able to play them both together all the time but we must keep developing them.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

A lot of people seem convinced he will end up being a star... I'd be very happy to trade him to GWS while his currency is high.

I believe it will be a workable combination. However he may well end up on the trade table and I trust the club if he does. Either way I'm not going to jump to knee jerk reactions based off one game or even one season.

What I do know is plenty of ruckmen get given away cheap before they have been given a proper chance to develop. We finally have found rucks we can develop and would be foolish to hand our finished product to another club to reap the benefit, unless its part of a very profitable trade for us.

 

[Unknown Identity]

We are a much better team with one genuine ruck and the extra runner. I wouldn't continue playing both.

White doesn't offer enough up forward and needs 2nd ruck duties to be of value.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Considering these two could be our ruckmen for the next 10 years, the debate is actually crucial to our structure going forward.

So why did you start this debate tonight if youre pretending to have a long term view?

 

[Kappa]

So why did you start this debate tonight if youre pretending to have a long term view?

Um... what.

The debate has both short term and long term implications, it was started due to recent performances but that doesn't mean the question goes away after a few weeks

 

[Soaring Magpie]

I don't like playing the two rucks together, as forwards they are incapable. Grundy has way more upside so I'd go with him, possibly the talk of trading Witts is not that far off the mark

 

[Kappa]

Only thing that shitted me was Witts poor miss at goal. Should never ever miss those. Not acceptable.

Witts has missed lots of pressure goals from 30 metres out in his career, it's not a good sign.

 

[danielnajdek]

Witts has missed lots of pressure goals from 30 metres out in his career, it's not a good sign.

Agree. It's a really bad sign. Need players who will step up and kick the big goals in finals when we eventualy get there.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Um... what.

The debate has both short term and long term implications, it was started due to recent performances but that doesn't mean the question goes away after a few weeks

You have a habit of starting negative threads or making negative comments after losses.

Playing them together is a neccessary evil to fast track them so they become an effective combination sooner rather than later. Short term sure, theres a risk we will struggle at times. As I said, with Cloke injured (along with Reid) its a pointless comment to make for the next week or two. Moore is hardly ready to step up and be a substitute, so unless you want to run a midget forward line Grundy and Witts will continue for a while yet. The Frost/Brown combination doesnt help either because we dont have a plan B to swing backs forward.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

I have seen similar comments made about many ruckmen in the past They just need time...otherwise we will be giving away teh next Sam Jacobs or Stefan Martin or Darren Jolly (when traded by Melbourne I mean)

 

[Shaneprice97]

How did they get their goals?

Grundy snuck out the backdoor and got a cheapie, Witts got a cheap free in the goal square when Fasolo took a strong mark in front of him...

Neither are actually doing what a tall should and TAKE CONTESTED MARKS!!!

Cheap free? Getting bear hugged isnt a cheap free.

Contested marking takes time, keep playing them, it will come.Its not like we are going to shake the finals, we have other issues to worry about, and they are AFL standard.

 

[Kappa]

Cheap free? Getting bear hugged isnt a cheap free.

Contested marking takes time, keep playing them, it will come.Its not like we are going to shake the finals, we have other issues to worry about, and they are AFL standard.

I can easily see Witts becoming the next Robbie Walnock/Cameron Wood. Decent tap ruckmen but a liability around the ground and not strong enough to take any contested marks around the ground or up forward.