Do you ever wonder if your political views are wrong?

[remember54]

I consider myself a moderate/centrist, and tend to view ideologues with disdain because of their tendency to ignore aspects of reality in order for their imagined worldview to make sense. Any political view can become stupidly ideological in my view, including but not limited to:

• Economic 'dries' who ignore the benefits of livable wages and conditions
• Leftie academics whose theories of 'privilege' or 'microaggressions' lead to irrational hatred and abuse of whole groups of people for their skin colour
• Parochial groups who want all immigration banned but can't explain how the government would address an ageing population or get 'Strayans' to take on the low paid jobs migrants accept
  
• People who complain about the soaring cost of welfare and 'dole bludgers', but won't accept that pensions take up over two-thirds of the 'dole' and think the government can balance budgets without service cuts or tax hikes (or both)

Nevertheless, I often wonder whether (like the ideologues I criticise) I'm actually wrong, and am simply finding evidence that conforms to my worldview. Maybe Bernie Sanders or the Greens are right, and we need a return to benevolent socialism? Or maybe the opposite is true - maybe Pauline Hanson's policy platform of restricted immigration and more focus on the outer suburbs will make Australia happier and more properous? Or maybe the libertarians are right, and the government just needs to get the hell out of the way and let individuals make their own life choices (and accept the benefits or consequences that come with them)?

I'm not keen to get into a debate over any one political issue in this thread, but I wanted to know if any of you also question your own opinions from time to time, and if you have, whether you changed your views on any occasion?

 

[NSWCROW]

No

 

[remember54]

No

You've held the same political views your entire life?

I don't know exactly where you stand politically, but there's been significant change in political ideas over the past 30-40 years, with a move from the Australian Settlement in the 1970s to a more free-market, deregulated and pro-immigrant economy. There's also been many social changes over the decades - homosexuality was only decriminalised in the 1980s, women were less prominent in the workforce, couples are having fewer children and getting married less frequently (while their parents are divorcing more frequently).

Some of these policy changes are complete 180s on previous political positions held by Australian political parties - are you saying you were always in favour of what you believe now, even if the party you supported back in the day didn't actually advocate for the ideas you now like?

 

[cartwright]

I'm not keen to get into a debate over any one political issue in this thread, but I wanted to know if any of you also question your own opinions from time to time, and if you have, whether you changed your views on any occasion?

Not questioned them as such, on occasion questioned whether I am getting all the required information to form a fair opinion.

I've softened my stance on a republic. I use to be quite adamant it was important, and required. Not so much anymore. Just change the flag. That will be enough.

 

[Ice-Wolf]

I consider myself a moderate/centrist

So does everyone.

 

[NSWCROW]

You've held the same political views your entire life?

I don't know exactly where you stand politically, but there's been significant change in political ideas over the past 30-40 years, with a move from the Australian Settlement in the 1970s to a more free-market, deregulated and pro-immigrant economy. There's also been many social changes over the decades - homosexuality was only decriminalised in the 1980s, women were less prominent in the workforce, couples are having fewer children and getting married less frequently (while their parents are divorcing more frequently).

Some of these policy changes are complete 180s on previous political positions held by Australian political parties - are you saying you were always in favour of what you believe now, even if the party you supported back in the day didn't actually advocate for the ideas you now like?

No was just extracting.
But if you mean " seeing the world " the way i do , then yes i've always leant this way for as long as i can remember.
I think it's an Empathy thing.....

 

[Ruck Machine]

No.

 

[Howard Littlejohn]

Absolutely, and in some cases I've moved my views somewhat.

 

[VineyIsLORD]

Wonder?

I am practically certain of it.

 

[JackOutback]

It's an interesting topic. I've always been on the left side of the political spectrum, albeit within the capitalist framework in which we live. But, if anything, I am now further left than when I was at university quite a few years ago now. Now whether that's because I've changed or the mainstream political parties have lurched to the right is up for debate. Either way, I used to be more of a 'pragmatist' whereas now I stand more on principle. I certainly accept the possibility that pragmatism and compromise can get things done, but there are issues that I will not bend on.

 

[Lebbo73]

No

You surprised me!

 

[medusala]

I'm not keen to get into a debate over any one political issue in this thread, but I wanted to know if any of you also question your own opinions from time to time, and if you have, whether you changed your views on any occasion?

I think most people do ie they throw off the idealistic utopian worldview when they have to work for a living and the taxman starts fleecing them, unions stand try to stand over them, etc. Unsurprisingly those who live off the state tend not to make the conversion to anywhere near the same extent.

I think alot of peoples views will have changed due to four utterly hopeless pm's in a row, hence the nostalgia for Keating and Howard by so many (but oddly a lack of love for Hawke).

 

[Fire]

Yes.

Not as a whole; but I could be wrong on any given issue.


Also re: your first post; do migrants really accept jobs locals don't want to do though? What jobs are those?

I know a few fruit farms around where I lived had waiting lists for pickers, because they outsourced a lot of the picking jobs to contractors who bussed in undocumented Asians for below minimum wage. That's not an issue of local unwillingness.

 

[remember54]

I think most people do ie they throw off the idealistic utopian worldview when they have to work for a living and the taxman starts fleecing them, unions stand try to stand over them, etc. Unsurprisingly those who live off the state tend not to make the conversion to anywhere near the same extent.

Well they say that if you're not a socialist when young you have no heart, and if you're not a conservative when you age you've got no head, which in a broad sense is relatively accurate. That said, half of Australia votes for the ALP/Greens/other left-leaning parties each election, so getting a real job doesn't always turn you into a libertarian!

Funnily enough, I've found that the most firebrand leftists are actually wealthy, inner city homeowners, while the working class tends to prioritise getting decent pay and conditions over nitpicking over whether saying "hey guys" is sexist. Given Marx and many on the far left were born into wealth, it seems like there's a bit of history repeating in the modern era

do migrants really accept jobs locals don't want to do though? What jobs are those?

I know a few fruit farms around where I lived had waiting lists for pickers, because they outsourced a lot of the picking jobs to contractors who bussed in undocumented Asians for below minimum wage. That's not an issue of local unwillingness.

Next time you're in Melbourne see if you can spot an Anglo taxi driver or late night 7-Eleven clerk

As for illegal workers, yeah that's one of the problems with bringing over lots of migrants from developing countries - $5 a day to someone here is bullshit, but to a guy from Bangladesh that's a heap of money and worth sleeping in a tin shed with 20 other blokes for. The government keeps claiming it's cracking down on this stuff, but I suspect their priority is to make it look like they're responding to the problem while quietly letting the rort continue

 

[JackOutback]

I think most people do ie they throw off the idealistic utopian worldview when they have to work for a living and the taxman starts fleecing them, unions stand try to stand over them, etc. Unsurprisingly those who live off the state tend not to make the conversion to anywhere near the same extent.

I think alot of peoples views will have changed due to four utterly hopeless pm's in a row, hence the nostalgia for Keating and Howard by so many (but oddly a lack of love for Hawke).

What a funny world you live in. I've somehow managed to work for 20 years without a single union man standing over me. I also don't consider paying tax being fleeced since I tend to use roads, parks, hospitals, police etc. In fact, using those services and trying to reduce my tax to zero would make me more of a leech.

 

[VineyIsLORD]

Next time you're in Melbourne see if you can spot an Anglo taxi driver or late night 7-Eleven clerk

That's not because Australians are unwilling to do them.

That's because the employers know they can pay asian workers under the minimum wage and that there will be little to no repercussions for it.

 

[Pie eyed]

I often wonder if would have been better to have lived in the days of Genghis Khan, when you could simply call out an arse clown and five minutes later be playing polo with his head.

 

[medusala]

What a funny world you live in. I've somehow managed to work for 20 years without a single union man standing over me.

Try talking to people in construction.

In fact, using those services and trying to reduce my tax to zero would make me more of a leech.

Those things are only part of the tax take. It's a shoddy argument you make.

That's not because Australians are unwilling to do them.

That's because the employers know they can pay asian workers under the minimum wage and that there will be little to no repercussions for it.

Right, so you are happy for Australian's to have their wages suppressed by non skilled immigration?

But the ABC tells me mass immigration and multiculturalism is brilliant. Your argument sounds racist to me.

 

[medusala]

Given Marx and many on the far left were born into wealth, it seems like there's a bit of history repeating in the modern era

Yep, see Engels. The Labour party in the UK is a great example. London champagne socialists trying to tell the working class up north what's good for them.

 

[CM86]

But the ABC tells me mass immigration and multiculturalism is brilliant. Your argument sounds racist to me.

It is brilliant. Australia wouldn't exist as it is now if not for it.
What isn't brilliant, is dipshits taking advantage of people. Luckily there are unions around that can help a lot of people who are being fleeced by the dipshits.

You've stated that there are people you won't hire, purely based on the colour of their skin. So the aussie worker doesn't have to worry about you suppressing wages by hiring migrants. Unless it's the majority of migrants, who come from the UK, NZ etc...

 

[Gough]

Once again the migrant whinges about migrants.

 

[cartwright]

It is brilliant. Australia wouldn't exist as it is now if not for it.
What isn't brilliant, is dipshits taking advantage of people. Luckily there are unions around that can help a lot of people who are being fleeced by the dipshits.

You've stated that there are people you won't hire, purely based on the colour of their skin. So the aussie worker doesn't have to worry about you suppressing wages by hiring migrants. Unless it's the majority of migrants, who come from the UK, NZ etc...

wtf...

 

[VineyIsLORD]

Right, so you are happy for Australian's to have their wages suppressed by non skilled immigration?

But the ABC tells me mass immigration and multiculturalism is brilliant. Your argument sounds racist to me.

No it is not racist to debate the merits of our labour intake from other nations. There you go meds, go nuts.

 

[Admiral Byng]

My political views have changed considerably since my early 20s to now.

 

[Scotland]

My political views have changed considerably since my early 20s to now.

That's pretty natural I'd imagine.

From my observations people tend to become more moderate with a bit of life experience. Pure socialism/capitalism doesn't actually work in reality.

I've also observed there seems to be a higher percentage of people adopting political parties like footy teams these days. The left wing ALP and right wing Liberals are just two sides of the fuselage as far as I'm concerned. Two sides of a s**t coin where heads loses and tails loses. Same sex marriage, an issue that actually that has zero effect whatsoever on 95%+ of the population, was a perfect opportunity for bipartisanship but it turned into political point scoring. More than 50% of MPs and Senators support it, both major party leaders support it, the majority of the population support it - yet all we've achieved in years of talking about it is an on again off again non-binding plebiscite. Sums up politics in Australia for mine.