The GC injures aren't coincidence and neither is the fact that the players don't play for the coach. Their problems run deep.
Opinion Do You Think We Will Take A Step Backwards?
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Jimmae
Brownlow Medallist
He'll be sacked before mid-season, I'm just saying the list is very capable and has some solid senior elements in midfield and up forward.
The injuries aren't a coincidence and they do run deep. The previous coaching regime didn't coach the boys properly. They didn't do enough on fitness or enough on skill fundamentals.
Rodney Eade, about 6 months into his term, said that he was really surprised at the fitness level of the players and his whole first pre season was spent essentially trying to get them up to scratch because they just had no base fitness level. Even last pre-season he was still trying to get them in order.
Gary Ablett has said that he noticed when he was there early on that he wasn't really in agreeance with the philosophy. He suggested that the issue was the focus was on the big picture stuff, such as overall gameplan, higher level player roles and the big play stuff. Not enough of the fundamentals of kicking, handballing, body work, fitness and situational gameplans.
I personally didn't think Eade was the right choice and was quite annoyed when he was made head coach. However in his defense he not only inherited a team with a very well known culture issue, but also a team with lesser known coaching philosophy issues.
In his third year the fitness stuff shouldn't be an issue, if they've done there jobs right. I believe they will surprise a few this year.
- Oct 4, 2013
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I dunno. They can't travel and it sounds like Ablett doesn't even want to be there. They have a real problem with leadership and can't get consistent performances out of blokes like Hall, Matera, and Saad because of it.
I just don't think their off-field troubles are behind them and as talented as they are, they don't work hard enough.
ferrisb
Brownlow Medallist
I completely agree.
The only sensible solution would be for them to send us Tom Lynch...
The only sensible solution would be for them to send us Tom Lynch...
I will watch Gold Coast with interest, as they do have issues remaining.
However, were we to get Lynch from them, I would be thankful: that guy is the real deal.
However, were we to get Lynch from them, I would be thankful: that guy is the real deal.
I expect us to take a step back next year and I think we need to be patient and realistic. Essendon sadly won't finish last and GC I think will improve. Wouldn't be surprised by finishing 17th but another year into weitering, Cunningham, curnow etc and a season for McKay and the new boys. Patience grasshopper, patience.
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- #133
Bottom three or thereabouts for mine. With a lot of close losses.
We have a young side who havent played together much. There is one more year of getting in more kids this year, then 2-3 years of them playing together and gelling.
I rate our defensive back six. I cant see us getting blown out of the park on too many occasions.
We should add another 2 top 10 picks and hopefully a marquee player this year via F/A.
We should be aiming for finals 2019/20.
We have a young side who havent played together much. There is one more year of getting in more kids this year, then 2-3 years of them playing together and gelling.
I rate our defensive back six. I cant see us getting blown out of the park on too many occasions.
We should add another 2 top 10 picks and hopefully a marquee player this year via F/A.
We should be aiming for finals 2019/20.
Last year I said we'd win between 6-8 games
Next year it will be between 7-10
Year after 9-12
Then BANG!!!!
Next year it will be between 7-10
Year after 9-12
Then BANG!!!!
Orlcarltonnose
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No
TooBlue14
Cancelled
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Looking at sos on the latest vid. Wow. Hasn't he bulked up. Last year he looked like a boy and he's growing every time we see him. Emotional listening to him talk of the monogram on the front being more important to him than the 1 on the back. This kid is going to be something special.
Cripps Nubake
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Agreed. It's weird to think that just 2 years ago, he was another blue bagger like us. He has not seen any premiership success for the club in his life, and been through the hard times over the last 15 years with us. I reckon he has a real drive to not only see the club achieve greatness, but to be a playing part in it. He wears the jumper with pride and will always give 100%. That's the sort of players we need to win a premiership, and thankfully it's who we seem to he drafting too (ie, Kerr, macreadie)
ferrisb
Brownlow Medallist
I hope you guys don't mind me coming on here but I wanted to put my hand up as someone who see's you guys going backwards next year, however, not in a negative way. I see it as a going backwards to go forwards type of thing. When you are in the bottom 6 teams on the ladder, ladder positioning is fairly irrelevant. So I don't think it matters too much if you drop from 5th last in 2016 to 2nd last or outright last in 2017. I believe you guys will drop back to bottom two, however, from 2018 onwards you will start to move up to the 10th-12th range and beyond that start to push towards the top. You guys have a core 4 of elite young talent in Weitering, Cripps, Docherty and SPS. Adding another top 2 draft pick to that lot plus all your other young talent should give you the talent you need to push towards a flag tilt in the near future.
Blue and Silver
Brownlow Medallist
Long Post Warning:
So I want to argue all both cases, why we will go backwards and why we will go forwards to see which stacks up best:
Why we will go backwards:
Inexperience:
We've lost a lot of AFL experience in the most recent list-turnover. Replacing that sort of familiarity and confidence isn't easy and will take time. It makes us more likely to drop close games and crumble in intense gameday scenarios
Immaturity:
Besides the lack of on-field experience, we also have a large contingent of players whose bodies may not quite be up to the rigors of a full AFL season yet. Many of our recent draftees did well to make debuts but I would struggle to see the majority of them playing full seasons. Expect several "general soreness" weeks off
Lack of Proven talent in Key Positions:
We've all got a big eye for what many of our kids are capable of, but right now it's all potential. Without proven AFL performances there is nothing to say that many of the kids we will rely on to hold down key spots won't bust.
Sub-standard Players:
We are still carrying some players who lack in some aspect as AFL prospects. Jones, Casboult, Boekhorst, Jaksch and White despite years in the system aren't consistent AFL performers, or consistently under-perform. Add on to that a list of players with notable limitations despite other strong attributes, like Sumner, Lamb, E. Curnow, Armfield, Kreuzer and Rowe and it's clear that we still have some AFL level talent deficit.
Why we will go forwards:
Gameplan sinking in:
Bolton's gameplan has another pre-season to develop and mature and for the players to really grab a hold of. The coach puts a ton of emphasis in education and development so it seems likely that players will improve their understanding and adherence to its tenets.
Gameplan improving:
Just as the players are likely to improve their understanding, so is the coaching team likely to better understand the players, the way they interact with the gameplan and how they can make improvements in the process to produce better results.
More of "Bolton's players" in the team:
It's a bit of an old truism that some coaches and players have special relationships (see Mick and Daisy). Most if not all of the players for whom this is likely to be true of Bolton would have either been drafted last year, this year or recently traded in. That means that we might expect some of the players recently acquired to outperform past performances
Natural Development:
We have several young players in the team who are already gathering AFL experience. If we assume a roughly linear trajectory of output (and that can be a bit of an assumption) then we could expect to see improved output from J. Silvagni, Weitering, C. Curnow, Cuningham, McKay and even from Docherty, Cripps, Plowman, Sumner, Marchbank, Pickett, Kerridge, Phillips and Buckley.
Assessment:
Guessing at next years performance is a bit fraught with danger, and much of how it will look on paper will depend on a bit of luck in close games (every team has close games which change how its season seems to have gone). On the balance of things I think an output between 5-10 wins seems likely.
We'll probably upset a team that is otherwise better than us, and probably lose a game or two we should have won.
For me that reflects us treading water in a "development year" where we see notable improvements in certain dimensions but also some clear frailties and shortcomings in younger players who need to work on aspects of their game and older players who aren't at the peak of their powers anymore.
Take it all with a grain of salt, and I appreciate this reflects a fairly generic assessment of a team in the bottom part of the ladder, but the honest truth is while there are few games I wouldn't give us a chance in, there are also many games I wouldn't call us the favorite in.
So I want to argue all both cases, why we will go backwards and why we will go forwards to see which stacks up best:
Why we will go backwards:
Inexperience:
We've lost a lot of AFL experience in the most recent list-turnover. Replacing that sort of familiarity and confidence isn't easy and will take time. It makes us more likely to drop close games and crumble in intense gameday scenarios
Immaturity:
Besides the lack of on-field experience, we also have a large contingent of players whose bodies may not quite be up to the rigors of a full AFL season yet. Many of our recent draftees did well to make debuts but I would struggle to see the majority of them playing full seasons. Expect several "general soreness" weeks off
Lack of Proven talent in Key Positions:
We've all got a big eye for what many of our kids are capable of, but right now it's all potential. Without proven AFL performances there is nothing to say that many of the kids we will rely on to hold down key spots won't bust.
Sub-standard Players:
We are still carrying some players who lack in some aspect as AFL prospects. Jones, Casboult, Boekhorst, Jaksch and White despite years in the system aren't consistent AFL performers, or consistently under-perform. Add on to that a list of players with notable limitations despite other strong attributes, like Sumner, Lamb, E. Curnow, Armfield, Kreuzer and Rowe and it's clear that we still have some AFL level talent deficit.
Why we will go forwards:
Gameplan sinking in:
Bolton's gameplan has another pre-season to develop and mature and for the players to really grab a hold of. The coach puts a ton of emphasis in education and development so it seems likely that players will improve their understanding and adherence to its tenets.
Gameplan improving:
Just as the players are likely to improve their understanding, so is the coaching team likely to better understand the players, the way they interact with the gameplan and how they can make improvements in the process to produce better results.
More of "Bolton's players" in the team:
It's a bit of an old truism that some coaches and players have special relationships (see Mick and Daisy). Most if not all of the players for whom this is likely to be true of Bolton would have either been drafted last year, this year or recently traded in. That means that we might expect some of the players recently acquired to outperform past performances
Natural Development:
We have several young players in the team who are already gathering AFL experience. If we assume a roughly linear trajectory of output (and that can be a bit of an assumption) then we could expect to see improved output from J. Silvagni, Weitering, C. Curnow, Cuningham, McKay and even from Docherty, Cripps, Plowman, Sumner, Marchbank, Pickett, Kerridge, Phillips and Buckley.
Assessment:
Guessing at next years performance is a bit fraught with danger, and much of how it will look on paper will depend on a bit of luck in close games (every team has close games which change how its season seems to have gone). On the balance of things I think an output between 5-10 wins seems likely.
We'll probably upset a team that is otherwise better than us, and probably lose a game or two we should have won.
For me that reflects us treading water in a "development year" where we see notable improvements in certain dimensions but also some clear frailties and shortcomings in younger players who need to work on aspects of their game and older players who aren't at the peak of their powers anymore.
Take it all with a grain of salt, and I appreciate this reflects a fairly generic assessment of a team in the bottom part of the ladder, but the honest truth is while there are few games I wouldn't give us a chance in, there are also many games I wouldn't call us the favorite in.
BIGGUS 64
Premiership Player
Seems that most on the Main Board have us finishing in the bottom two next year!
Aww shucks, it's so sweet how desperately our enemies still yearn to see us fail. Kind of gratifying too.
So much so, that they continue to allow their bias and wishful thinking to cloud their judgement. To think that last year some "experts" even predicted we would finish below *!!! lol
No, don't be troubled by others' low expectations. Embrace them rather - all the easier to make them look stupid. And if we don't? Well, expectations were never high to begin with.
I can't see us going backwards, but what we have to expect is that the teams around us will likely improve as well, so we won't necessarily see a meteoric rise up the ladder, not just yet anyway. Another couple of seasons into our young guns, a matured, developed game plan and more wise recruiting - then we should see the "green shoots" bearing fruit.
Just as well.
BIGGUS 64
Premiership Player
Another factor to consider is that Bolts is still very much on a learning curve as well. There's no doubt he is a talented coach with a certain genius for building positive relationships and a team-first, growth-focused mindset, but as a senior coach he is still a noob. There will be days where he is simply out-foxed by a more experienced head.
- Aug 3, 2014
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Rodney Eade has done what he was asked to do when he joined GC and that's clean up the drug/alcohol/party culture that The Previous coach turned a blind eye to.
Guy McKenna is mainly responsible for the chaotic state that The Suns are still in, not Eade, having said that, if they don't improve significantly next season, he is gone.
But Eade's job has been somewhat thankless and much harder then people think, Gary Ablett being a selfish, arrogant and uncooperative excuse of a captain being a big problem there.
Guy McKenna is mainly responsible for the chaotic state that The Suns are still in, not Eade, having said that, if they don't improve significantly next season, he is gone.
But Eade's job has been somewhat thankless and much harder then people think, Gary Ablett being a selfish, arrogant and uncooperative excuse of a captain being a big problem there.
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What does Eade have to do with Carlton!
Jimmae
Brownlow Medallist
Pretty sure they're both s**t
Ouchhhhh!
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Graham is probably the exception where he probably had done enough to get more of a look in for senior games than he has, suffered under Malthouse but he definitely has the capability to play, can actually kick a goal or two as well.
Anyone who has us for the spoon under the excuse of "Every team will get better, bur Carlton will be worse" is full of crap.
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