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Docker Debutants

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I thought Head played his best game for the club against Richmond. Not that it was a great game but serviceable. Made a couple of tackles and hit his targets when he kicked.
 

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Dyslexic Emo said:
Wow, well done Freo for rebuilding and actually meaning it. But looking at that list I see one team that is just TOTALLY out of whack with it's supposed rebuilding phase.

First year players to debut and total games played in season 2009:

Fremantle – 5 players; 29 games
Carlton – 5 players; 28 games
North Melbourne – 5 players; 24 games
Richmond – 4 players; 22 games
Adelaide – 3 players; 21 games
Melbourne – 4 players; 20 games
Brisbane – 4 players; 19 games
Hawthorn – 5 players; 17 games
Collingwood – 4 players; 17 games
Sydney – 3 players; 16 games
Essendon – 3 players; 12 games
Port Adelaide – 3 players; 10 games
Western Bulldogs – 2 players; 10 games
West Coast – 2 players; 5 games
Geelong – 2 players; 2 games
St Kilda – 0 players; 0 games

With West Coast sitting behind Geelong and St Kilda, what are they doing? do they think they have a list that can make the 8? becuase that seems to be what they are aiming for, I can see teams like Geelong and StKilda not blooding the youth as they are having a tilt at the flag and are in the business of WINNIG games to secure a top 4 place but West Coast are bottom 4!!! The fact that they have only played 2 rookies this year just shows what a rabble they are at the moment with Worsfold. He can't build a list to save his life and with all these rookies waiting in the wings to get a game, now would be the time to do it. But hey if that's the way they re build then it's fine by me, I'll stick to the Harvey method ANY day of the week.
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Initially, I thought the same thing... What the hell are West Coast doing? The only reasoning I can think of... was that they're playing their existing list to find out who may / may not fit into their overall "team plan". Anyone who doesn't fit that plan will be delisted at years end. They're obviously not interested in motivating and playing their young guys - instead they're trying to mould their current list into a team that will play to a certain strategy. Too bad if that strategy fails. Either that or they have too many players contracted or something? [shrugs]

Personally, I'm glad that I'm a Freo supporter. At least you know that our guys will be trying their best every week and showing signs of improvement.
 
Nodgey said:
Nothing against Luke, but he is currently on our injured list now (although listed as "test" and has been named on an extended I/C bench for Swans) and he's missed heaps of games for Swans through various injuries including shoulder, ankle and (I think) a back issue.

I admit he's no Andrew Browne, but he has been unable to string together a lot of games. But he is young, I spose.

I wouldn't underestimate his potential either, but if he is 100% fit, and considering he made his AFL debut just a month ago (and went ok), why would he not play ahead of Pearce then ATM?
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i think because he is injured, like everyone else on our list :o, i have no doubt that had he been fit he would have played, i see it more as a question of fitness, than a question of ability, anyhow each to there own, i think will be a servicable player, not a star but a solid defender :thumbsu:
 
Dyslexic Emo said:
With West Coast sitting behind Geelong and St Kilda, what are they doing? do they think they have a list that can make the 8? becuase that seems to be what they are aiming for, I can see teams like Geelong and StKilda not blooding the youth as they are having a tilt at the flag and are in the business of WINNIG games to secure a top 4 place but West Coast are bottom 4!!! The fact that they have only played 2 rookies this year just shows what a rabble they are at the moment with Worsfold. He can't build a list to save his life and with all these rookies waiting in the wings to get a game, now would be the time to do it. But hey if that's the way they re build then it's fine by me, I'll stick to the Harvey method ANY day of the week.
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You have to remember that you had a big cleanout at the end of last season, with 16 players yet to play, and have been able to elevate four or five players from the rookie list as well. We had 12 players on our list that hadn't played yet at the start of this season. 6 of them are rookies.

Cockie was elevated and played a few games, and Ryan Davis (who has already played) was the other rookie elevated to cover injuries. The others aren't eligable to play yet anyway.

As for the rest, McGinnity got a broken jaw in the NAB Cup, but has started to play some decent footy, Naitanui has only been back for a few matches in the WAFL, Shuey has just been taken off the LTI list, and Swift has played. Jordan Jones and Ash Smith are the others, and aren't ready yet.

It's unfortunate that we haven't seen more new players coming through yet, but we just haven't had the chance to give them a game. I'd expect Naitanui and McGinnity to play pretty soon though, and Cockie will be re-elevated after Round 11.

Last season we did a similar thing to what you are doing this year, debuting twice as many players as Fremantle did, often due to injury.

Best of luck with the Harvey method, I hope it pays off. :) I like the look of a lot of Freo's younger players.

dont bowl there said:
Yup WCE have given Cockie four games and Swift one, luckily they quickly shunted Cockie back to the rookie list so Ryan Davis could get games...
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Cockie was elevated for Shuey, and had to go back on the rookie list when Shuey moved off the LTI list.
 
Hmm, I thought that they were linked with the player on the LTI list.

Normally clubs must drop a senior player to the long-term injury list to allow a rookie senior action, but the replacement must return to the rookie list when the listed player is fit.

Some clubs do not have two veterans so may nominate a rookie in the pre-season, allowing him to play senior football for the year.

The ruling will allow some clubs to elevate players, and give some promoted rookies the chance to continue playing.

Geelong has rookie ruckman Shane Mumford playing regularly in the AFL, while West Coast was forced to push back rookie Adam Cockie last week when draftee Luke Shuey returned from groin soreness.

More...
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In any case, we can elevate Cockie at the end of this round, and he'll probably play again after the break.

Anyway, back to the main point of this thread, a lot of young players coming in for Freo at the moment. Walters possibly playing this week? And I haven't had a chance to see Clarke play yet but from reports he's going quite well. And Ballantyne in for his first game as well... quite a few this season, wonder what the record is? Essendon and us both had 8 last season.

Oh and Josh Head looks like a good youngster as well ;)
 
Quinz said:
Hmm, I thought that they were linked with the player on the LTI list.



In any case, we can elevate Cockie at the end of this round, and he'll probably play again after the break.

Anyway, back to the main point of this thread, a lot of young players coming in for Freo at the moment. Walters possibly playing this week? And I haven't had a chance to see Clarke play yet but from reports he's going quite well. And Ballantyne in for his first game as well... quite a few this season, wonder what the record is? Essendon and us both had 8 last season.

Oh and Josh Head looks like a good youngster as well ;)
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why elevate cocki when you have that budding superjoke ryan davis on your rookie list, that guy is going to be my next "most favourite eagle to bag" player.... hang on, now that i think of it, lynch will always hold that mantle :rolleyes:
 
It seems we may well be a triple debut match for Fremantle this evening.. If Port can't beat us it will be rather shameful for them methinks... I just hope we don't get blown out of the water..
 

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Quinz said:
You have to remember that you had a big cleanout at the end of last season, with 16 players yet to play, and have been able to elevate four or five players from the rookie list as well. We had 12 players on our list that hadn't played yet at the start of this season. 6 of them are rookies.

Cockie was elevated and played a few games, and Ryan Davis (who has already played) was the other rookie elevated to cover injuries. The others aren't eligable to play yet anyway.

As for the rest, McGinnity got a broken jaw in the NAB Cup, but has started to play some decent footy, Naitanui has only been back for a few matches in the WAFL, Shuey has just been taken off the LTI list, and Swift has played. Jordan Jones and Ash Smith are the others, and aren't ready yet.

It's unfortunate that we haven't seen more new players coming through yet, but we just haven't had the chance to give them a game. I'd expect Naitanui and McGinnity to play pretty soon though, and Cockie will be re-elevated after Round 11.

Last season we did a similar thing to what you are doing this year, debuting twice as many players as Fremantle did, often due to injury.

Best of luck with the Harvey method, I hope it pays off. :) I like the look of a lot of Freo's younger players.


Cockie was elevated for Shuey, and had to go back on the rookie list when Shuey moved off the LTI list.
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Good post.

To use the number of debutants from 11 rounds to judge a sides youth policy is plain stupid.

We have many kids playing, couple of weeks ago we had the 3rd youngest side and 11 players under 22 (or something like that). Its just that we have been blooding them over the past 2yrs that we dont have the huge number of debutants this year.

Not to mention the fact that we have been leaving out older more established players like Fletcher, Stenglein, Brett Jones etc. Only got a couple of blokes over 26 in our 22 so its not like we are hoarding around alot of veterans.

Dont forget, basically the only untested players on our list at the start of the year were the draftees. Three of which (NicNat, Shuey, Smith) all have had injury issues and there has been not chance at all of them debuting.

Long story short, I'm more than happy with WC's youth 'policy'. It has been a policy for a good couple of years not just started late last year.

Dont take this the wrong way, but I think the number of Freo debutants is more of an indictment on Freo's youth policy over past few years than ours. Its simply a result of poor list management that you had to have such and influx of players at the end of last year combined with the lack of players in the 19-23 range (except for Palmer, Ibbo and Mayne). Consequently, you have had large number of players debuting that wouldnt have got a look in at WC eg De Boer got debut with half the form of Swift at Tigers.
 
TOA. said:
To use the number of debutants from 11 rounds to judge a sides youth policy is plain stupid.

We could do it over 2 years if you want and we'd still be in front.:thumbsu::D


We have many kids playing, couple of weeks ago we had the 3rd youngest side and 11 players under 22 (or something like that). Its just that we have been blooding them over the past 2yrs that we dont have the huge number of debutants this year.

Same as post above:thumbsu:

Not to mention the fact that we have been leaving out older more established players like Fletcher, Stenglein, Brett Jones etc. Only got a couple of blokes over 26 in our 22 so its not like we are hoarding around alot of veterans.

Yeah, your talking about grade A hacks, they shouldn't be getting a game in the WAFL let alone an AFL club so the fact that they are even on your list shows your preference towards youth is the polar opposite than that of Michael Jackson

Dont forget, basically the only untested players on our list at the start of the year were the draftees. Three of which (NicNat, Shuey, Smith) all have had injury issues and there has been not chance at all of them debuting.

Well that's some might fine drafting right there. Drafting injury prone players and Masten, Things are really looking up as far as your youth policy goes isn't it?

Long story short, I'm more than happy with WC's youth 'policy'. It has been a policy for a good couple of years not just started late last year.

You mean, the policy which includes step 1 'tank to get draft picks' Step 2, trade captain for extra draft picks, Step 3, use first pick to pick CEo's relative. AWESOME!!!

Dont take this the wrong way, but I think the number of Freo debutants is more of an indictment on Freo's youth policy over past few years than ours. Its simply a result of poor list management that you had to have such and influx of players at the end of last year combined with the lack of players in the 19-23 range (except for Palmer, Ibbo and Mayne). Consequently, you have had large number of players debuting that wouldnt have got a look in at WC eg De Boer got debut with half the form of Swift at Tigers.
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Well considering the non existant youth policy you are refering to was all part of Connoly's era, since Harvey has been coach our youth policy has been nothing short of excellent, and since that is the one we are talking about (ie Harvey compared to Worsfold) then what you said is just really has no merit. As for the influx of player sthis year, you just have to take one look at the talent of potential players we got form the draft this year and last year and compare it to the whole AFL list of draftees of 2006 and make a choice on who you would rather have on your list. Bar Joel Selwood, there isn't much there, while this draft for us, is proving to be a bloody gold mine of talent, even if half of them dont't work out for us, that's still 7 players that will be great players for us from 1 draft. All done without tanking and trading away our captain thank you very much:D:thumbsu::thumbsu:

Have a nice day:)
 
I'm not sure if you said all that tongue in cheek but I wont dignify it with a meaningful response if thats the kind of reasoning I'll get.

But I will say this, I wasnt bagging Freo's youth policy per se. Its been good recently. I just dont think you can get on your high horses about giving youngsters a go and paying us out for not doing it. We've been doing every year since Worsfold was coach, even when successful we were blooding many players. (I could drag up stats but I know they would be wasted). You've started blooding youth in earnest THIS YEAR, whether by design or because of injury. Well done :)
 
Dyslexic Emo said:
Can't face the facts more like it. here's another one for you H4rvey >W0rsf0ld:thumbsu:
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Our young players dont stack up too bad to yours. Lets not turn it into a slanging match. But we need a dose of reality aswell. Facts/stats - players stats who debuted this year or last.

Masten (16.1)
Ebert (14.8)
Swift (14)
Hill (13.8)
Selwood (12.3)
Cockie (12)
Pratt (11)
Hinkley (10.8)
Suban (10.1)
Matt De Boer (10)
 

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TOA. said:
Our young players dont stack up too bad to yours. Lets not turn it into a slanging match. But we need a dose of reality aswell. Facts/stats - players stats who debuted this year or last.

Masten (16.1)
Ebert (14.8)
Swift (14)
Hill (13.8)
Selwood (12.3)
Cockie (12)
Pratt (11)
Hinkley (10.8)
Suban (10.1)
Matt De Boer (10)
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so how do you come about this list? palmer? mayne? just conveniently forgot them?
 
TOA. said:
Our young players dont stack up too bad to yours. Lets not turn it into a slanging match. But we need a dose of reality aswell. Facts/stats - players stats who debuted this year or last.

Masten (16.1)
Ebert (14.8)
Swift (14)
Hill (13.8)
Selwood (12.3)
Cockie (12)
Pratt (11)
Hinkley (10.8)
Suban (10.1)
Matt De Boer (10)
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Palmer (22.6)
Broughton (20)
Masten (16.1)
Pearce (16)
Ebert (14.8)
Walters (14)
Swift (14)
Hill (13.8)
Mayne (13.1)
Wilkes (12.7)
M.Brown (12.4)
S. Selwood (12.3)
Cockie (12)
Pratt (11)
Hinkley (10.8)
Suban (10.4)
Matt De Boer (10.3)
Davis (10.3)
Head (10.1)
Notte (6.5)


Fixed :)

FWIW Ibbo only played one game in '07 so I dunno if he qualifies, but he'd be (17.5) as well.
 

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