TV Doctor Who

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GreyCrow

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Well, I'm done until Chibnall leaves.
What did you find wrong with it?

I prefer this type of storytelling rather than message ones.

I didnt mind the reveal - it opens the producers to more regeneration cycles - but aside from that

'Who is the Timeless Child?

Who is the Timeless Child'

Some plot holes ie Cybermen were on planet while 'the Fam' were still getting into suits

Ko Sharma taking over was telegraphed

I felt it would have been better to leave JW sitting there on her console and end it. The last bit and the Title Trailer spoiled the next season a bit

I do agree CC isnt yet in the same area as the previous but I also felt Moffat took a year to find his groove
 

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SM

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I would have preferred that sort of resolution if we'd had a multi-season arc, or at least far more drops of teases about it. That sort of pay off was really under-sold thoughout the last two seasons, and required far too much exposition. Too much time spent on Brendan last episode for seemingly little reason that instead could have been dropping more build up to the reveal.

Also begs the question of where that leaves Rassilon/Omega etc.

I also wonder if given how the season ended, perhaps next season could revolve around Ruth? Seemed odd that the TARDIS' they took both looked like Ruth's on the inside.
 

Vader

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Graham and Ryan are leaving at the end of Devolution of the Daleks apparently.
I wondered if Ryan might be leaving the TARDIS, based on his dialogue in a couple of episodes this season. He's been making comments about dropping in & out of his friends lives, and aging at a more rapid rate than everyone else. It makes sense that Graham would go at the same time, given that he's Ryan's grandfather.
 

Elmer_Judd

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I wondered if Ryan might be leaving the TARDIS, based on his dialogue in a couple of episodes this season. He's been making comments about dropping in & out of his friends lives, and aging at a more rapid rate than everyone else. It makes sense that Graham would go at the same time, given that he's Ryan's grandfather.

Well Tosin Cole has been cast in a new US series to be screen on Netflix, so it's no real surprise that he is leaving tbh.
 

Niximus

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I felt it would have been better to leave JW sitting there on her console and end it. The last bit and the Title Trailer spoiled the next season a bit
It didn't spoil the next season, it was a set-up for the next special and was a call-back to when the spaceship Titanic crashed into Tennant's TARDIS setting up that xmas special. It even included the What?? What?? WHAT?????.

I liked the episode and am keen to see where they can go with this. It opens it up to a number of incarnations from the Doctor's time in the Division to show up and perhaps a look at what the Curator was referring to when he said they'd revisit a few old faces.

It might have been better if Kpo Sharma had turned out to be a regenerated Tecteun who regretted what they'd done and sacrificed themselves to make amends.

Not completely sure where Ruth fits in though so will be interesting to se where that goes.
 

Howard Littlejohn

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What did you find wrong with it?

I prefer this type of storytelling rather than message ones.

I didnt mind the reveal - it opens the producers to more regeneration cycles - but aside from that

'Who is the Timeless Child?

Who is the Timeless Child'

Some plot holes ie Cybermen were on planet while 'the Fam' were still getting into suits

Ko Sharma taking over was telegraphed

I felt it would have been better to leave JW sitting there on her console and end it. The last bit and the Title Trailer spoiled the next season a bit

I do agree CC isnt yet in the same area as the previous but I also felt Moffat took a year to find his groove
Spoiler tage removed: (some) typos fixed

The episode as a standalone wasn't bad at all. The lone cyberman was quiter good, underpinning where cybermen come from and how detached from their original species the normally become. The Master teaming up in order to claim the cyberium, fits the character well. The "boundary" and the lone person there to aid people through it, nothing particularly novel but well done.
The end of humanity and end of Gallifrey are tropes that they've done to death. Though the end of Gallifrey obviously was set up at the begining of the season, so perhaps not a point for the finale as such.
So, the stand alone parts of the finale story were quite good. Instead what was supposed to be the mind-blowing "change everything" is a major letdown bit which has me giving up. Because it did change everything, and all in a bad way.

The timeless child being the doctor (predictable and one of the things I despise most about new Who - though hinted at in classic as well : making the Doctor more than just a traveller at hearts who has become something else), the pre-Hartnell regenerations (utterly unnecessary and pointless), and the whole rewrite of Gallifreyan history basically writing out huge elements of Rassilon etc. The time travel stuff still has Rassillon and Omega preumably, but Rassillon was integral in regeneration - or so it was thought. Adding to lore is one thing, and the attempt of that is something I heartily approve of. Overturning large chunks just to fit the Morbius scenes (the simplest and best explanation was that they were previous regenerations of Morbius) quite another.

Brendon had me interetsed, but ultimately led nowehere interesting. The death and resurrection could have been a much more interesting story. Jack's Irish kid, who over the years was met with so much of the worst of humanity he was willing to become a cyberman. And it would have made somethiung out of Hack's pointless fanwank* cameo earlier in the season.
I thought at one point that might be where they were going, and it could have been a much more deep an interesting story than the "timeless child" fairytale we were presented with and then that child being the doctor. I really, really hoped they were doing something more than the obvious with the timeless child. Timless child = Doctor was too predictable, even if they did add something a bit different how they got to that point.

*Jack is fine. But if you're bringing back a character, make it more substantial than a few minutes of poor comic relief to deliver one line of substance
 
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GreyCrow

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It might have been better if Kpo Sharma had turned out to be a regenerated Tecteun who regretted what they'd done and sacrificed themselves to make amends.

Not completely sure where Ruth fits in though so will be interesting to se where that goes.
I find the idea of Ruth being an internal Doctor to be mis-written. The internal Doctor idea is fine- but a whole episode - where others saw and interacted doesnt fit

But yes she may be part of this New Doctor Arc that may feature on a new Torchwood ie the reason Captain Jack made that brief return

Last day of spoilers people
 

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Many people have said The Master should've been the Timeless Child and I have to agree. It had a lot of changes to the Doctor's and the Timelord's history, arguably too much. You got Gallifreyians taking the ability to regenerate from another species, the Doctor not only having previous regenerations but being The Timeless Child and having several throwaway regenerations we'll never see again. If you're gonna do all these changes, you better do it in a satisfying way and have an amazing episode and I don't think they delivered either of those.
 

GrommoT

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... It opens it up to a number of incarnations from the Doctor's time in the Division to show up and perhaps a look at what the Curator was referring to when he said they'd revisit a few old faces. ...
I wonder if it also potentially removes the 12 regeneration limit from The Doctor being the timeless child with regenerating an innate ability.
 

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Niximus

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I wonder if it also potentially removes the 12 regeneration limit from The Doctor being the timeless child with regenerating an innate ability.
I'd say it definitely does. I'd say that The Doctor never actually had a limit and only believed they did.

It raises the question of why Matt Smith didn't regenerate on Trenzalore until granted a new cycle of regenerations from the Time Lords, but I think he just didn't believe he had any left so he never tried.
 

Elmer_Judd

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Seems like this campaigner really f’ed up 50 years of story telling.
I am enjoying the Big Finish Audios a lot more these days than the Televised episodes (and it's nothing to do with Jodie, who is doing a good job overall)

Hartnell is still and always will be The Original and First Doctor to me, Chibbers and his nonsense of The Timeless Child and all that is just another one of The Master's lies and distortions.

Incidentally Bill Nighy, Karen Gillan, Richard Curtis, Tony Curran and Smudger (Matt Smith) are doing a live global rewatch and tweet along of the brilliant Vincent and The Doctor on 7pm British GMT on Monday (or I think 6 am here in Eastern Australia)

First time ever Matt Smith has been on social media or at least Twitter AFAIK.
 

Bostonian

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I am enjoying the Big Finish Audios a lot more these days than the Televised episodes (and it's nothing to do with Jodie, who is doing a good job overall)

Hartnell is still and always will be The Original and First Doctor to me, Chibbers and his nonsense of The Timeless Child and all that is just another one of The Master's lies and distortions.

Incidentally Bill Nighy, Karen Gillan, Richard Curtis, Tony Curran and Smudger (Matt Smith) are doing a live global rewatch and tweet along of the brilliant Vincent and The Doctor on 7pm British GMT on Monday (or I think 6 am here in Eastern Australia)

First time ever Matt Smith has been on social media or at least Twitter AFAIK.

None of the issues are with the actor which is telling. Everything is being directed at the w***er writing the self indulging garbage.

Is the character even a 'Who' anymore? Has the mystery of his origins gone?
 

Elmer_Judd

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None of the issues are with the actor which is telling. Everything is being directed at the w***er writing the self indulging garbage.

Is the character even a 'Who' anymore? Has the mystery of his origins gone?
It's the premise of The Doctor technically not being Gallifreyian and born in a parallel universe that really shits me.

And he had the gall to go on public TV as a snotty teen geek ans publicly bag Pip and Jane Baker, and JN--T after the controversial Trial of a Time lord season (which I love btw, got the blu-ray set)


I am glad the late great Terrance DIcks passed away before seeing how Chibnall pissed on the legacy that he, Malcolm Hulke, Sydney Newman, David Whittaker, Robert Holmes, Barry Letts etc helped create.
 

Bostonian

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It's the premise of The Doctor technically not being Gallifreyian and born in a parallel universe that really shits me.

And he had the gall to go on public TV as a snotty teen geek ans publicly bag Pip and Jane Baker, and JN--T after the controversial Trial of a Time lord season (which I love btw, got the blu-ray set)


I am glad the late great Terrance DIcks passed away before seeing how Chibnall pissed on the legacy that he, Malcolm Hulke, Sydney Newman, David Whittaker, Robert Holmes, Barry Letts etc helped create.
As soon as I saw his face it all made sense. Tossbag.
 

Elmer_Judd

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I haven't got through that many of them, a touch over 100 I guess, just starting to get to the point where they are getting expensive.
The good thing about the BF audio range is that Paul McGann range aside (especially since it ties in with the events leading up to The Time War) you don't have to buy all or every single title to enjoy them.


For instance, I only buy as essential all The Colin Baker audios (only missing four or five of all his BF adventures, Sixie has always been my first and favourite Doctor)

A lot of the earlier main range audios are available to buy as downloads only from The Big Finish website at a pretty cheap price.

Stay away from The Rapture though, that is Chibnall-esque crap.
 

Elmer_Judd

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That's weird, as recently as the 70s there was a story containing regenerations before Hartnell that were considered to be the Doctor.
Well there has always been an mixed interpretation to the events of The Brain of Morbius. My personal opinion had always been the alternate faces (which were actually members of the production staff like Phillip Hinchcliffe, Christopher Barry and Robert Holmes etc) were the previous incarnations of Morbius, a notorious War Criminal of The Time Lords.
 

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