Does any team have the same firepower we do, or what we could have?

[1970crow]

It's 2017 all over again, elite forward line but midfield a touch lacking (by premiership standards).

Yep, brilliant at smoking average teams and building %, but not quite good enough often enough against the better sides. Our defence holds up well enough, but our forward movement breaks down, although, unlike 2017 this is due to our own strategy change against the better sides.

That said, it’s also a bit like 1998 where we smoked average teams but when we lost to the better sides, it wasn’t by much. Difference is that we won’t adjust, if anything we’ll stifle forward movement even more as September gets closer and we’ll run our 23 into the ground.

 

[1970crow]

I like it, there should be scrutiny on our offence. The stats show it but even just watching you can see we struggle with our offence against the good sides.

No team is perfect, I think our defence has been so good it has covered over some issues.

You learn very little playing the bottom sides. We want the interstate media talking about us as the local media lose their minds over a ten goal win against Richmond.

I distinctly recall Rowie playing the Can You Feel It bit after we bet Eagles by 90 points at home last year. SA media are pretty pathetic when it comes to genuine assessment, they’re pretty much just barrackers.

 

[Golumless]

It's 2017 all over again, elite forward line but midfield a touch lacking (by premiership standards).

No, it's not. Once we're against the good teams, we're closer to Sydney 2005 than Adelaide 2017. Back then, even the best couldn't stop us from scoring most weeks, however, that was a team that had a structure that relied too heavily on luck (and it can be argued that the grand final was lost on McGovern's injury seeing offensively it failed without everyone). Once we lost one our four main key forwards, it became sluggish and easy to stop.

This set up is different, history has been kinder to the miserly team that struggles offensively then the offensive juggernauts with a mid-tier defense. That said, it's not like we're the only suffocating team in the league at the moment and really, Collingwood does what we do but better (so much like Sydney in 2005, we're probably reliant on avoiding them once it's for all the marbles).

 

[Redline]

Tex is cooked, started well but his movement deteriorated throughout the match. Will be a big problem come finals time. But you’re right, Fog, TT, Keays, Rach and Rachele is serious high quality and extremely difficult to control if we get the ball moving fast at them.

You are spot on. Supporters also get confused between a forward line full of elite players and a forward line functioning at an elite level. All players play a role but I don't think it's working collectively.

The only reason we are playing the forward set up we are is because we want to play all three of our key forwards. Two is all you need especially in our case with Curtin and Dawson going forward at times. You bring the extra runner in and we are much more dynamic.

Tex is an issue now but will be bigger come finals as the game speeds up but I can't see Nicksy making the change.

 

[Golumless]

You are spot on. Supporters also get confused between a forward line full of elite players and a forward line functioning at an elite level. All players play a role but I don't think it's working collectively.

The only reason we are playing the forward set up we are is because we want to play all three of our key forwards. Two is all you need especially in our case with Curtin and Dawson going forward at times. You bring the extra runner in and we are much more dynamic.

Tex is an issue now but will be bigger come finals as the game speeds up but I can't see Nicksy making the change.

Well, no, most of the reason we're playing with three key forwards is due to our list. It's pretty clear we have exhausted our forward depth with Curtin moving to a wing, seeing how unsettled we are with our last forward slot since that move (noting all of Taylor, Pedlar, Murphy and Michaelanny have played there in the last eight weeks). We don't have any more small forwards to add who are worth anything, nor any inside midfielders to shuffle Peatling back as Draper isn't physically ready (and notwithstanding, the only reason you'd consider switching Peatling back is to try to kick-start Soligo's form line).

Mind you, we probably double down on this next year seeing the likely replacement for Tex is Toby Murray due to said list problems and us likely wanting to reinforce our contested marking game. Especially if playing fast and long is the method to breakdown Collingwood defensive system, which SEN champion data segment highlighted as a potential kink.

 

[Coopers]

Game plan is just as important as the Hawks loss in particular demonstrates.

Our game plan seemed to be "miss easy shots".

5 goals 14 points. FFS.

 

[Redline]

Well, no, most of the reason we're playing with three key forwards is due to our list. It's pretty clear we have exhausted our forward depth with Curtin moving to a wing, seeing how unsettled we are with our last forward slot since that move (noting all of Taylor, Pedlar, Murphy and Michaelanny have played there in the last eight weeks). We don't have any more small forwards to add who are worth anything, nor any inside midfielders to shuffle Peatling back as Draper isn't physically ready (and notwithstanding, the only reason you'd consider switching Peatling back is to try to kick-start Soligo's form line).

Mind you, we probably double down on this next year seeing the likely replacement for Tex is Toby Murray due to said list problems and us likely wanting to reinforce our contested marking game. Especially if playing fast and long is the method to breakdown Collingwood defensive system, which SEN champion data segment highlighted as a potential kink.

I am fairly confident towards the of the year if either of Tex or Fog are unavailable we don't bring in Burgess or Murray. We will play with two key forwards plus Curtin.

 

[WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot]

Now lets have a look at the games and conditions -

Gold Coast - fine and sunny - perfect
Geelong - fine and night - perfect
GWS - very windy and some showers (not much)
Collingwood - wet and windy
Brisbane - wet and windy
Hawthorn - cold and freezing

Most of these type of weather conditions won’t occur in September. Think are best football is played in drier weather. It will be interesting to see how we go at Marvel against Bulldogs.

So we are the best defensive side against top 9 (conditions helped) but attack needs to improve. Much easier to fix attack than defense.

And a Port supporter calling us “flat track bullies” - yeh very humourous.

Yep, that was my first thought. Most of those games were heavily impacted by weather conditions and were fairly low scoring as a result.

 

[kirky]

So that table viewed this was


CW - 6 - W5L1 - 550 (91.6) - 420 (70) +21.6

BR - 8 - W5L3 - 651 (81.3) - 598 (74.7) +5.6

AD - 7 - W2L5 - 489 (69.8) - 517 (73.8) -4.0

G - 8 - W5L3 - 696 (87) - 683 (85.7) +1.3

H - 6 - W3L3 - 399 (66.5) - 453 (75.5) -9.0

F - 6 - W4L2 - 504 (84) - 517 (86.1) -2.1

WB - 7 - W1L6 - 629 (89.8) - 686 (98) -8.2

GC - 7 - W3L4 - 550 (78.6) - 590 (84.3) -5.7

GWS - 7 - W3L4 - 558 (80) - 632 (90.3) -10.3


Only Collingwood is the standout performer.

 

[Blue Red and Gold]

Well yes the bulldogs do, they are the highest scoring team and Darcy has missed half the games and ugle Hagen hasn’t played.

Obviously no denying that, they are a genuine threat this year but can the highest scoring title really mean anything when half their games are played under a roof?

 

[FR0GGY]

Obviously no denying that, they are a genuine threat this year but can the highest scoring title really mean anything when half their games are played under a roof?

Love to see a score average for stadiums.

 

[PCORF]

It will be interesting to see how we go at Marvel against Bulldogs.

I reckon that it is going to be a really good hard fought game. A kick in this one and hopefully luck goes our way.

 

[NSolis]

Tex is cooked, started well but his movement deteriorated throughout the match. Will be a big problem come finals time. But you’re right, Fog, TT, Keays, Rach and Rachele is serious high quality and extremely difficult to control if we get the ball moving fast at them.

Not sure on Curtin, he is such a smooth mover and an impossible match up when played on a wing. Once he reaches his full fitness he’s going to be amazing in that role and inside when required. Plus we wing is still a major issue if we lose him, Cumming is turning out to be a bog average winger and it gets a bit scary underneath that.

Now, on Max, don’t you remember the time that Mackay kicked 3 against the Hawks or Milera that one time kicked 3 in about 10 minutes at half forward? One swallow does not a summer make, especially against a weak opponent like Richmond. After those games there were posters genuinely believing that we’d just seen a string added to their bows. We’d need to see a bit more before we go calling Max a decent forward.

The one thing that stands out about Max for me was the quality of his set shots which were very good. For the most part otherwise there wasn't anything particularly remarkable about his forward game, mostly just benefitted from uncontested forward line marks in a dominant side. Nothing wrong with his game at all but not match defining.

On Walker he was off the ground a lot in the second half. Under 50% TOG in the final quarter and the only players with less game time than him in total were the players involved in the sub. It was a totally fine performance, the real issue is that it's his best game in two months and against Richmond. Goals aside you would obviously take 16 disposals from someone with the field kicking skills Walker has any day of the week, even with non-existent defensive efforts. Two goal assists as well. But that's assuming this was the standard rather than the last month where he's averaged 8.5 disposals and under a goal.

 

[Geoffa32]

..

 

[Blue Red and Gold]

Love to see a score average for stadiums.

Average score at Marvel is 85 from 24 games
Average score at Adelaide Oval is 85 from 19 games

Bulldogs average 110 at Marvel from 7 games
Crows average 99 at Adelaide Oval from 8 games

Bulldogs average 100 away from Marvel from 8 games
Crows average 97 away from Adelaide Oval

To be fair I expected a bigger discrepancy for the Bulldogs

 

[FR0GGY]

Average score at Marvel is 85 from 24 games
Average score at Adelaide Oval is 85 from 19 games

Bulldogs average 110 at Marvel from 7 games
Crows average 99 at Adelaide Oval from 8 games

Bulldogs average 100 away from Marvel from 8 games
Crows average 97 away from Adelaide Oval

To be fair I expected a bigger discrepancy for the Bulldogs

Cheers

 

[Cleric]

Interesting post from RussellEbertHandball

Definitely worth a read. Keep in mind the season isn't over and we still have games against WBD, Collingwood, Hawks and Suns. 3 of the 4 games are home games

I've edited the Port references out of his post

Mega Thread - Port Forum General AFL Thread Part 30

This ABAB guy seems like the biggest f***wit imaginable. Doesn't even look like the crows fans enjoy him He is a prize w***er. I have seen some of the shit he sprouts on the main board. I think he might be unhinged to be honest.

www.bigfooty.com

Our problem with the better teams is we suck at clearances and you might be able to get away with that with the weaker teams, but the good teams will capitalise on their clearances.

 

[Southerntakeover]

It's 2017 all over again, elite forward line but midfield a touch lacking (by premiership standards).

Except we have a potential elite mid on the list we're refusing to develop

 

[Golumless]

I am fairly confident towards the of the year if either of Tex or Fog are unavailable we don't bring in Burgess or Murray. We will play with two key forwards plus Curtin.

A month ago, I probably agree. Now, though? Curtin is becoming too valuable to move to a third tall.

Murray being injured for most of the season really puts a dent into what we do here, though if I had to bet, we play this with a straight bat with Burgess in a must win game.

Obviously no denying that, they are a genuine threat this year but can the highest scoring title really mean anything when half their games are played under a roof?

Nah, Dogs aren't a genuine threat this year at this point in time. The finals system has no love for teams who are great offensively and bog average defensively. However, if they tighten their defence in the next few weeks, they're going to be damn hard to stop. As CD says, once you hit August, you are what you are, profile wise.

 

[Carmo]

I’ve had a quick tally of the top 9 teams v the top 9 teams.
Happy to be corrected.

Games played - win/loss - Pts for/av per game - Pts Against/av per game



CW - 6 - W5L1 - 550 (91.6) - 420 (70)

BR - 8 - W5L3 - 651 (81.3) - 598 (74.7)

AD - 7 - W2L5 - 489 (69.8) - 517 (73.8)

G - 8 - W5L3 - 696 (87) - 683 (85.7)

H - 6 - W3L3 - 399 (66.5) - 453 (75.5)

F - 6 - W4L2 - 504 (84) - 517 (86.1)

WB - 7 - W1L6 - 629 (89.8) - 686 (98)

GC - 7 - W3L4 - 550 (78.6) - 590 (84.3)

GWS - 7 - W3L4 - 558 (80) - 632 (90.3)



BEST AVERAGE POINTS FOR

CW 92.6

WB 89.8

G 87

F 84

B 81.3

GWS 80

GC 78.6

A 69.8

H 66.5



BEST AVERAGE POINTS AGAINST

CW 70

A 73.8

B 74.7

H 75.5

GC 84.3

G 85.4

F 86.1

GWS 90.3

WB 98

Worth noting differences in experience versus performance, us and hawthorn and freo and GWS all quite young by comparison. In the last game played the avg games was 159.5 collingwood, 140 bris, 136.5 geelong, 115.3 adel* 110 wb, 104.7 gc, 99.1 haw, 88.0 freo, 86.1 gws. *= we range from 115 to 85 depending on who we have in the side, tex, smith, crouch and laird all bump it up a fair bit, as does murphy (vs draper say) we're typically around 100games this year.


Also worth nothing the home and away breakdown thus far, so we've played the top 9 in the form of 4 away and 3 at home, our next one is away, after that we have three to finish the year all at home.

Collingwood have had 4 at home and 3 away.

Then its worth noting the treatment by the umpires where us and GWS I reckon it was seem to have been treated very harshly considering our spot on the ladder and other teams like hawks have been treated incredibly favourably.

All in all we are doing very well and I'd say, on trend, we are closing the gap between the teams that are better than us rapidly. Lets hope the trend continues through the rest of the season and into the finals.

 

[Go the Guts]

It's 2017 all over again, elite forward line but midfield a touch lacking (by premiership standards).

Much better defence now. But midfield will definitely be our undoing.

 

[Mr MysteryGuest]

I linked his post in the thread as well

If you read the entire post he's not particularly complementary of port either

I think the point is that of the games you've mentioned above we've only actually won 2 of them, and by extremely narrow margins. We also lost to Fremantle.

It'd be nice to win at least 3 of the remaining 4 games against current top 9 sides.

All of our losses were close margins too.

I actually think think it’s too early to call it a flat-track bullies, before we play more of the best at home.

Especially when we’re almost drawing with the best away.

 

[dylan123]

Well yes the bulldogs do, they are the highest scoring team and Darcy has missed half the games and ugle Hagen hasn’t played.

Weightman too.

 

[Bob Neil]

Darcy v Thilthorpe
Naughton v Fogarty
JUH v Walker
Weightman v Rachele
West v ANB
Vandermeer v Keays

Pretty hard to separate at full strength I reckon.

 

[Bob Neil]

WB	ADE	COLL	BRI	GEEL	GCS	GWS	FREO	HAW
Darcy	Thilthorpe	McStay	Hipwood	Neale	Walter	Riccardi	Jackson	Chol
Naughton	Fogarty	Mihocek	Morris	Cameron	King	Hogan	Treacy	Lewis
JUH	Walker	Membrey	Rayner	Dangerfield	Long	Cadman	Amiss	Gunston
Weightman	Rachele	Hill	Cameron	Stengle	Rogers	Jones	Bolton	Watson
West	ANB	Sullivan	Bailey	Miers	Ainsworth	Daniels	Frederick	Moore
Vandermeer	Keays	Elliott	Lohmann	Close	Humphrey	Greene	Reid	Ginnivan