Does anyone deserve a flag more than Nathan Jones?

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Nathan Jones?
Pfft

Len Thompson
5x Best & Fairest
Brownlow Medallist
Lost 66 GF by a point
Lost 70 GF after being over 7 goals up
Lost 77 GF after a drawn GF.
Put out in Prelim 65, 69, 73 & 78
Put out in Finals 67, 71, 72, 74, 75.

If anyone “deserves” one.....


Talk about hard luck
 

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May 5, 2006
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West Coast
Not that I think anyone “deserves” a premiership before they’ve actually won one, but those are some questionable alternative names.

Deledio for instance. The guy pissed off to chase a flag because he (mistakenly) thought the side he was leaving had no hope. I’d question how he is more deserving than Jones and I’m guessing so would many Richmond supporters. Goddard also left on similar grounds. The crux of your argument seems to be games played + quality of player = amount deserving. Surely loyalty is also a big factor. It’s why a player like Pavlich is continually raised. It’s not simply due to how good he was or how many games he played. it’s because he would’ve passed up numerous opportunities to chase success elsewhere but didn’t take the easy option.

Jones’ career is unique if you equate how good a player he is with how long he’s gone without any form of success on the field. The only one I can really think of to compare him against is Matthew Richardson who, as good as he was, sometimes let his emotions get the better of him on the field. Jones has never really dropped his head or let his emotions bubble over although few would’ve neglected him the right to do so. I’m sure there are other comparable examples but there wouldn’t be many that have toiled away for the best part of ten years churning through as many coaches, false dawns and seasons spent propping up the ladder as Jones has.

I reiterate that no-one deserves a premiership imo until they’ve won one. But for argument’s sake, if it was a viable concept, I don’t see why asking the question about Jones would be a “weird thread”.
I'm not sure where in the OP or the following 6 pages it was determined that being great at footy was the factor that made you deserving of a premiership.

For me, Nathan Jones is the epicentre of the MFC at the moment. He's not the most talented player, but he works the hardest, gives the most, and as more loyalty than half the population of Australia combined. We can bicker about any definition of 'deserves'..... but there isn't a bloke on the planet I would want to get one before him. When there were endless reasons to take an easier way out, he shouldered an enormous burden in staying through a period that i doubt will ever be rivalled for its sheer terribleness.

To steal a line from Supermercado... When he retires, Nathan Jones will have to go in for several bouts of neck surgery from carrying the MFC for a decade.

There's a bit of a crossover between how good you are, how long you stick around/how many games you play and how many good bloke credits you have. I reckon if Goddard stuck with St Kilda people still wouldn't like him as a 323 gamer. Freo for example have 4 250 gamers (McPharlin played a dozen with Hawthorn), are they deserving of flags?

I think comparing Jones to Pav or Richo is a bit of a stretch. Pav made the AA side 6 times and kicked 700 goals. Richo made it 3 times and kicked 800. Richo was overshadowed playing in an era with Carey, Lockett, Ablett etc. but these guys were superstars. Jones is a good player but he's a long way back from these two. You can include Nick Riewoldt with Pav and Richo, too. Passing up an opportunity to move for success is one thing, but clubs don't chase Nathan Jones the way they chased the others. Riewoldt to Freo or Pav to Adelaide would've been the difference for those sides. Jones leaving would be more like Frawley to Hawthorn.

Jones reminds me more of someone like Matt Priddis, minus the luscious curls. Priddis did a power of work over 2007-2017 in West Coast sides that ranged from awful to mediocre to pretty good and no one can fault his loyalty and professionalism, but ultimately he wasn't good enough to lead us to success. Assuming Melbourne do have some success I really hope Jones is around to be a part of it, but I fear he may end up a bit like Richie Vandenberg as someone who was there for the s**t times but just missed the good times.
 

Captain_Bender

Premiership Player
May 21, 2015
4,495
6,761
AFL Club
Richmond
Nathan Jones?
Pfft

Len Thompson
5x Best & Fairest
Brownlow Medallist
Lost 66 GF by a point
Lost 70 GF after being over 7 goals up
Lost 77 GF after a drawn GF.
Put out in Prelim 65, 69, 73 & 78
Put out in Finals 67, 71, 72, 74, 75.

If anyone “deserves” one.....
Lost the 73 prelim after being 45 up
 

class78

All Australian
Jun 19, 2013
865
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How could anyone be more overrated than "Big game Tex" ?

nothing to do with nathan jones or this thread? plus i dont think anyone rates taylor walker, pretty much everything i see on him is mocking him in some sort. nice deflection from nathan jones though
 

Sprout

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 6, 2010
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There's a bit of a crossover between how good you are, how long you stick around/how many games you play and how many good bloke credits you have. I reckon if Goddard stuck with St Kilda people still wouldn't like him as a 323 gamer. Freo for example have 4 250 gamers (McPharlin played a dozen with Hawthorn), are they deserving of flags?

I think comparing Jones to Pav or Richo is a bit of a stretch. Pav made the AA side 6 times and kicked 700 goals. Richo made it 3 times and kicked 800. Richo was overshadowed playing in an era with Carey, Lockett, Ablett etc. but these guys were superstars. Jones is a good player but he's a long way back from these two. You can include Nick Riewoldt with Pav and Richo, too. Passing up an opportunity to move for success is one thing, but clubs don't chase Nathan Jones the way they chased the others. Riewoldt to Freo or Pav to Adelaide would've been the difference for those sides. Jones leaving would be more like Frawley to Hawthorn.

Jones reminds me more of someone like Matt Priddis, minus the luscious curls. Priddis did a power of work over 2007-2017 in West Coast sides that ranged from awful to mediocre to pretty good and no one can fault his loyalty and professionalism, but ultimately he wasn't good enough to lead us to success. Assuming Melbourne do have some success I really hope Jones is around to be a part of it, but I fear he may end up a bit like Richie Vandenberg as someone who was there for the s**t times but just missed the good times.
It’s not just “good bloke” points. Loyalty is a rare thing these days and regardless of yours or my opinion of Jones as a player, he absolutely would’ve been chased by other clubs until they stopped asking the question because they knew what the answer would be. He’s publicly said he could’ve left years ago but chose to stay.

I’m not suggesting Jones is on par with Richo purely as a footballer. But when you combine ability with lack of finals appearances, I would think those two sit near or at the top of the pile. They both have excelled in teams and environments where everything was stacked against them year on year.

He still has a few years left in him. He’ll still be around for some good times. How good remains to be seen.
 
May 5, 2006
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It’s not just “good bloke” points. Loyalty is a rare thing these days and regardless of yours or my opinion of Jones as a player, he absolutely would’ve been chased by other clubs until they stopped asking the question because they knew what the answer would be. He’s publicly said he could’ve left years ago but chose to stay.

I’m not suggesting Jones is on par with Richo purely as a footballer. But when you combine ability with lack of finals appearances, I would think those two sit near or at the top of the pile. They both have excelled in teams and environments where everything was stacked against them year on year.

He still has a few years left in him. He’ll still be around for some good times. How good remains to be seen.

I don't think you can just brush aside the relative abilities of players, though. Jones excelling is winning B&Fs in arguably the worst team this century. Richo excelling is making the Richmond team of the century and AFL hall of fame. If Fyfe was a 250 gamer right now instead of a 150 gamer people wouldn't be talking about he and Jones the same way.

Jones could've left Melbourne as a few others from his time did, but he's not Chris Grant. Staying out of loyalty wouldn't have been turning down $1m a year to join Hawthorn or Geelong or whoever was flying at the time, it would've been turning down the chance to play in a better side for less money. Admirable still, but it's not like he hasn't maximised his earnings sticking with the Dees so loyalty during a poor era does have one perk.

Anyway I don't want to sound like I'm hating on the guy. I like him and hope for his sake he gets to play finals this year. I just think people get a bit carried away with 'player X deserves success' threads.
 

Sprout

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 6, 2010
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I don't think you can just brush aside the relative abilities of players, though. Jones excelling is winning B&Fs in arguably the worst team this century. Richo excelling is making the Richmond team of the century and AFL hall of fame. If Fyfe was a 250 gamer right now instead of a 150 gamer people wouldn't be talking about he and Jones the same way.

Jones could've left Melbourne as a few others from his time did, but he's not Chris Grant. Staying out of loyalty wouldn't have been turning down $1m a year to join Hawthorn or Geelong or whoever was flying at the time, it would've been turning down the chance to play in a better side for less money. Admirable still, but it's not like he hasn't maximised his earnings sticking with the Dees so loyalty during a poor era does have one perk.

Anyway I don't want to sound like I'm hating on the guy. I like him and hope for his sake he gets to play finals this year. I just think people get a bit carried away with 'player X deserves success' threads.
You don’t overly rate Jones which is fine but that comes down to opinion. At least you can acknowledge that it goes beyond how good they are and how many games they played. I don’t think a “Does anyone deserve a flag more than Brett Deledio?” would be well received. With good reason.
 

YnBlack

All Australian
Jan 31, 2017
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My vote
29EAFE6E-1CCA-4D70-9261-E5CCE31B351A.jpeg
 
May 5, 2006
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You don’t overly rate Jones which is fine but that comes down to opinion. At least you can acknowledge that it goes beyond how good they are and how many games they played. I don’t think a “Does anyone deserve a flag more than Brett Deledio?” would be well received. With good reason.

I don't begrudge Deledio leaving Richmond at the end of 2016. He gave them 12 years of good service and they were in a bit of a hole at that time, plus he couldn't string games together and thought a fresh start would benefit both parties. Obviously it hasn't worked out for him or GWS with him only playing 13 games out of a possible 35 or so and Richmond winning the flag out of nowhere but that's footy. Higgins, Griffen, Cooney all left the Dogs and they ended up winning one too.

Anyway, bit of a tangent. Jones should be in the rooms right now rubbing baby oil on his arms and head. Apprently 85k expected. Go Dees.
 

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Aug 17, 2006
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I'm getting involved in this one against my better judgement, but besides being two years older, what's the difference between Nathan Jones and someone like Jack Steven? Rory Sloane? Marc Murphy? Going back a bit, the likes of Wayne Campbell, Nathan Burke or Garry Wilson? Don't get me wrong, if Melbourne won a flag with Jones playing, it would be tough not to feel happy for him, but what's so special about him, compared dozens of standout players who played almost their entire career with a poor team and never got to experience the team glory (and, it should be noted, probably benefited from being in such a poor team, when it came to individual accolades, as well)?
 
Apr 2, 2013
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No. Great player. And has busted his boiler even when things were hopeless.

Absolutely deserves it. Difference with the others is at this stage of his career Dees are still very very reliant on him and it may just break him. Viney (inj and recovering) and Lewis (cooked and picking up loose balls off half back) were went to provide that support but hasn't worked out.
 

Eddie Van Halen

Team Captain
Oct 28, 2013
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I wouldn't have minded Riewoldt getting one. But that would have meant the 'Aints winning a flag and we don't want that. I hate St. Kilda but he's a top bloke.
Pavlich too.
 

Tbonefreo

Norm Smith Medallist
Feb 13, 2013
7,900
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Nathan Jones?
Pfft

Len Thompson
5x Best & Fairest
Brownlow Medallist
Lost 66 GF by a point
Lost 70 GF after being over 7 goals up
Lost 77 GF after a drawn GF.
Put out in Prelim 65, 69, 73 & 78
Put out in Finals 67, 71, 72, 74, 75.

If anyone “deserves” one.....
Lol had a few cracks at it. Sounds like a choker
 

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