Analysis Does Derek Get a Pass Mark?

[jmac70]

So we shouldn't take the best player available at out pick... we should take the next best Indigenous player available instead??? What happens if a chinesse player is better than than pick... can we take him? Or does he have to be Indigenous?


(Equality has flown out the window eyy!)

I just think it is an area we need to address. Other clubs appear to be doing a better job of it.

 

[Smoky]

My Chinese mate has won two amateur Australian titles in boxing so he can really rip, my tongan mate is a big softy who played tac cup and vfl but was lazy and love's work more than sport.

Cool.

Not sure what the hell this has to do with Collingwood taking the best possible player they can get at their draft pick but that's awesome.

 

[jmac70]

They seem to fit your criteria.

Trying to be clever doesn't suit you.

 

[popin]

Lets wait for the rookie draft.

I might have a guy in mind

 

[NT.Thunder]

How's the new Sydney recruits form Tyrone Leonardis, media has pulled his FB profile which shows his liked pages including

1. Adam Goodes for Flog of the Year and
2. Adam Goodes for w***er of the year

#awkward

 

[mike123]

I might have a guy in mind

I was working and couldn't watch the draft so I have no idea who's still leftover.

Who?

 

[sr36]

Off the top of my head: Franklin, the Hill brohters, Walters, Jetta, Betts, Varcoe, Martin, Burgoyne, Garlett, Rioli, Wells, Yarran, Bennell, L Thomas

I'm sure I've missed a few, but a few I've included are suspect. There aren't that many quality Indigenous footballers around at the moment and one of them plays for us.

We also chased that guy from GWS who ended up choosing Adelaide.

I don't see your issue

 

[half_back_flank]

Here is where we disagree my friend. Closing the gap overrides that IMO.

Yeah, nah. How is token drafting (which is what you're proposing) indigenous players going to help? If anything it just highlights the differences.

 

[pablo disco bar]

We need an indiginous ranga!!

 

[mike123]

Off the top of my head: Franklin, the Hill brohters, Walters, Jetta, Betts, Varcoe, Martin, Burgoyne, Garlett, Rioli, Wells, Yarran, Bennell, L Thomas

I'm sure I've missed a few, but a few I've included are suspect. There aren't that many quality Indigenous footballers around at the moment and one of them plays for us.

We also chased that guy from GWS who ended up choosing Adelaide.

I don't see your issue

You've missed quite a few.

Chris Yarran, Allen Christensen, Steven Motlop, Shane Edwards, Shaun Edwards, Danyle Pearce, Jarrod Harbrow, Nathan Wilson, Zac Williams, Neville Jetta, Chad Wingard, Jake Neade, Brendan Ah Chee, Nathan Krakouer, Patrick Ryder, Jarman Impey, Sharrod Wellingham, Cam Ellis-Yolmen, Charlie Cameron, Micheal Johnson, Brendan Matera, Steven May, Josh Hill, Koby Stevens, Joel Hamling, Jon Griffen.

 

[mike123]

We need an indiginous ranga!!

Two birds with the one stone

 

[sr36]

You've missed quite a few.

Chris Yarran, Allen Christensen, Steven Motlop, Shane Edwards, Shaun Edwards, Danyle Pearce, Jarrod Harbrow, Nathan Wilson, Zac Williams, Neville Jetta, Chad Wingard, Jake Neade, Brendan Ah Chee, Nathan Krakouer, Patrick Ryder, Jarman Impey, Sharrod Wellingham, Cam Ellis-Yolmen, Charlie Cameron, Micheal Johnson, Brendan Matera, Steven May, Josh Hill, Koby Stevens, Joel Hamling, Jon Griffen.

I did miss a few - particularly Motlop. I didn't realise Wingard and Wellingham were Indigenous. But I did say quality. I intentionally missed many of the guys on your list, as I wouldn't want them on the Collingwood list.

 

[mike123]

I did miss a few - particularly Motlop. I didn't realise Wingard and Wellingham were Indigenous. But I did say quality. I intentionally missed many of the guys on your list, as I wouldn't want them on the Collingwood list.

Each of the guys I named were best 22 or there abouts, the only guys I don't want on our list are because of list balance not they they can't play.

 

[Schraderbrau]

How's the new Sydney recruits form Tyrone Leonardis, media has pulled his FB profile which shows his liked pages including

1. Adam Goodes for Flog of the Year and
2. Adam Goodes for ****** of the year

#awkward

Awkward but says more about the how pathetically low the media is prepared to go these days imo

 

[popin]

We need an indiginous ranga!!

Like this old chap

 

[mike123]

Is that Wellingham playing VFL?

 

[popin]

Is that Wellingham playing VFL?

Yep

 

[lenny20]

I still have some scars from the 2011 draft.

But if you look at our rookie/scholarship/clever trading with GWS zoning selections, then 2011 landed us Jarrod Witts, Marley Williams and Jamie Elliott! Not a bad haul at all!

 

[sr36]

Each of the guys I named were best 22 or there abouts, the only guys I don't want on our list are because of list balance not they they can't play.

We're a club who moves fringe/depth players on pretty quickly. Most of those guys would be moved on pretty quickly by Collingwood. And hopefully Nathan Krakouer never gets a chance to be a depth player at the Pies.

 

[mike123]

We're a club who moves fringe/depth players on pretty quickly. Most of those guys would be moved on pretty quickly by Collingwood. And hopefully Nathan Krakouer never gets a chance to be a depth player at the Pies.

If you say so I guess.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

Awkward but says more about the how pathetically low the media is prepared to go these days imo

Yes always bottom dwellers looking quick hit

 

[lenny20]

To be honest he's only nailed Elliot, De Goey and Grundy recently. His picks in 2008 in Beams and SS were genius, but since then their would of roughly been 70 or so turkeys. As a list Manger in trade period he earns his cash no problem. But his talent identification is poor, way to many players with kinks in their game which as he like to describe all to often as PROJECT TYPE. I'm no expert but my opinion is king to myself, and I don't rate Hine on draft day. Pies should throw the kitchen sink at Wright, bring back a favourite son who nails it most of the time. In saying this hope the **** that Sier is a gun.

I think we'll probably have to agree to disagree here, but I reckon you've got it round the wrong way with Hine and Wright. Hine has had more success at the draft table than he has trading, whereas Wright has been the best list manager and trader in the business, and just a "pretty good" drafter.

Let's look at Hawthorn's trading during Wright's time. Burgoyne, Gibson, Hale, Gunston, Lake, McEvoy and Frawley have all been incredible successes as players. The Hawks have been simply brilliant at the trade table. Meanwhile he is obviously still a very good drafter, but probably not the absolute top echelon of the Stephen Wells ilk. By your definition of "nailing" a selection, he's only brought in Stephen Hill since 2011 who has performed at a very high level, whereas the bulk of his draft selections have turned into serviceable players who sit on the fringe of the 22 - Suckling, Stratton, Duryea, Hartung types. He also got Bruest and Langford as rookie elevations, but they were already Hawthorn rookies from before he took over in 2011, so I'm not sure you can chalk them up to Wright, probably Pelchen. And he's had his fair share of unremarkable picks - Howe, Miles, Pittonet, Sicily, Garlett, O'Brien and Brand certainly haven't achieved any more than any Collingwood youngster.

Again, not bad drafting at all, quite good really, but nothing spectacular. Certainly not as spectacular as the Hawks' trading.

Hine on the other hand has traditionally been more questionable with the players he's targeted via trade and free agency (however I believe that this has changed in the last two years with some excellent trading headed by Adams, Varcoe and Treloar). There's a long list of failed trades here though: Simon Buckley, Anthony Corrie, Tony Armstrong, Jordan Russell, Quentin Lynch, Clinton Young, Jesse White, Patty Karnezis and a few others I can't remember. Hine has missed more than his fair share when trading.

Meanwhile, since the Beams/Sidebottom draft, Derek has drafted in the three you mentioned in Jamie Elliott, Jordan De Goey and Brodie Grundy, along with a host of good-to-very-good young players like Darcy Moore, Marley Williams, Tim Broomhead, Tom Langdon, Alex Fasolo, Jarrod Witts and poor old Matt Scharenberg, who will be the best of them if injuries ever leave him alone. Most of those were brought in with very late picks. Then there's very capable depth players drafted with rookie or late round selections, like Jackson Ramsay, Ben Sinclair, Adam Oxley and Jack Frost.

The only really misses has been Nathan Freeman at pick #10 where injuries decimated him, and Ben Kennedy at pick #19. But even with Kennedy we received the equivalent of a 2nd round selection in return for him, so there's no real loss for us there.

Long story short - I reckon Derek's done okay at the draft. Probably one of the better performed out of all the recruiters. Wright has been a great trader and list manager, but his draft credentials aren't top echelon stuff.

 

[Somebody]

Well said popin. Whilst I wish all our selections well another draft goes by without an Indigenous player selected. We must have the lowest representation in the AFL and IMO it is not good enough.

So Colingwood should draft indigenous players over players they think are better, just to be PC?? that's what is getting beyond ridiculous.

 

[Horaceg]

I'll give him a pass and also a f##k you Dekka again not drafting an indigenous player, grrrr I'll do a td here . Goldcoast draft an indigenous player every f##kn year.

The only things that should matter is talent and best available, race or ethnic background should never decide who gets picked. It should never decide who doesn't get picked either.

 

[jmac70]

Yeah, nah. How is token drafting (which is what you're proposing) indigenous players going to help? If anything it just highlights the differences.

I am talking about a greater focus on drafting elite Indigenous talent. Not token drafting.