Does Geelong's 'lifestyle' factor give them an unfair advantage for free agency signings?

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M Malice

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Catsace

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Exactly 20 years ago Geelong were trying to scope for a key forward. Try as they may, nobody of any description wanted to come to Geelong. We did get Cam Mooney in the Colbert trade (which tells you something in itself, that our captain wanted to leave the club to go to North..how times change!) But Ray Hall and Jade Rawlings were given entreaties by Geelong's recruiting staff, but to no avail. Finally Brad Ottens came to Geelong at the end of the 2004 season...but at the same time we lost Ben Graham to the NFL.

But i'd say as much as the lifestyle factor is the way that Geelong became a successful club on-field, and a professional club as well. Now players want to come here, others like Tim Kelly left, but a lot of that was due to his partner who had all her family back in W.A. And unlike Colbert, Selwood has been a man to take pay cuts and take unders to keep the squad together and allow for future recruits to come in. Even Chris Scott declined being paid for the Covid break in early 2020, to help some of the peripheral staff get some sort of stipend to carry them through this tough time.

So no, Geelong hasn't always had it's own way, it's been build on hard work by Cook, Costa and Bomber initially and carried on via Chris Scott. As maligned as he may be due to finals losses in his time here, the players buy in and keep fronting up at the pointy end year after year. That doesn't happen if there's no spirit or passion among the group.
 

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Catfish Alley

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I remember fans were happy/surprised when Ottens wanted to join. The club found it hard to entice players for a long time.
 

PJays

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Yes that’s definitely the main reason we are so strong in the home and away season.
Crowd support.

Gameplay, skill, coaching, effort, fitness - they’re all more or less irrelevant.

It’s crowd support.
Geelong's record at KP is 106-14 over the last 15 years.

That includes 2-3 during covid without crowds.

So the true record is 104-11.

90% win rate.

If Geelong played all their home games at MCG or Marvel, how many games would they have won?
 

PhatBoy

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Geelong's record at KP is 106-14 over the last 15 years.

That includes 2-3 during covid without crowds.

So the true record is 104-11.

90% win rate.

If Geelong played all their home games at MCG or Marvel, how many games would they have won?


And all those wins are from crowd support.

I’m not arguing it im acknowledging it. It’s obviously crowd support.
It’s not player related.
 

PJays

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And all those wins are from crowd support.

I’m not arguing it im acknowledging it. It’s obviously crowd support.
It’s not player related.
Answer the question, give me some analysis. What do you think?

They've won 104 games from 115 in front of crowds at KP. How many fewer (if any) if played where all other Vic teams play?
 

Sttew

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I remember fans were happy/surprised when Ottens wanted to join. The club found it hard to entice players for a long time.
Its probably when Richmond supporters started hating Geelong. Ottens went on to become a triple premiership player and still proudly identifies himself a 'Geelong' man, almost as though Richmond never happened
 

PhatBoy

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Answer the question, give me some analysis. What do you think?

They've won 104 games from 115 in front of crowds at KP. How many fewer (if any) if played where all other Vic teams play?


I think if there was a team from Adelaide or Perth who had the AWAY record that we do in the last decade, they would be expected to have a similar home percentage to what we do.

We host interstate sides at KP and Melbourne based teams who by and large we have dominated over that period: St Kilda, Bulldogs, Melbourne, North Melbourne. We would have won the majority of those games at any of KP, MCG or Docklands during that time. Yes all teams have a better record at home for any number of reasons: noise of affirmation, comfort, no travel, whatever. But don’t start making out as though our record would be flipped on it’s head if we weren’t based where we are.

Be thankful there are still a handful of teams who never ever have to play there to make our record even better at home


Will there come a point where anyone goes ‘well you know what? They win more at home than anyone, they win more away than anyone, they make the grand final in a season where the games are played in neutral territory, maybe they are just a consistently decent side’?
 

PJays

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We host interstate sides at KP and Melbourne based teams who by and large we have dominated over that period: St Kilda, Bulldogs, Melbourne, North Melbourne.
Actually St Kilda haven't beaten Geelong at KP since 1999, losing 11 times in a row but we've beaten you plenty of times at Marvel and MCG (and not just when we were contending either)


We would have won the majority of those games at any of KP, MCG or Docklands during that time.
Yes, agreed.

But how many less?

Of those 104 wins, 8 were by 5 points or less.

Do you think KP is worth a goal per game to Geelong?

. But don’t start making out as though our record would be flipped on it’s he
I'm not, but I think it's a small advantage, that's all. It might be the difference between finishing 2nd and 3rd some years, or 4th and 6th. I wouldn't suggest it's anything more than that. It definitely helps though

Will there come a point where anyone goes ‘well you know what? They win more at home than anyone, they win more away than anyone, they make the grand final in a season where the games are played in neutral territory, maybe they are just a consistently decent side’?
Yeah absolutely

But ultimately they've finished top 2 on 9 occasions over the past 15 years, but only made 5 Grand Finals

So they do overachieve in the Home and Away season, or Underachieve in finals relative to Home and away. KP is surely one part of the reason. Not necessarily the whole reason but part of it
 

PhatBoy

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Actually St Kilda haven't beaten Geelong at KP since 1999, losing 11 times in a row but we've beaten you plenty of times at Marvel and MCG (and not just when we were contending either)



Yes, agreed.

But how many less?

Of those 104 wins, 8 were by 5 points or less.

Do you think KP is worth a goal per game to Geelong?


I'm not, but I think it's a small advantage, that's all. It might be the difference between finishing 2nd and 3rd some years, or 4th and 6th. I wouldn't suggest it's anything more than that. It definitely helps though


Yeah absolutely

But ultimately they've finished top 2 on 9 occasions over the past 15 years, but only made 5 Grand Finals

So they do overachieve in the Home and Away season, or Underachieve in finals relative to Home and away. KP is surely one part of the reason. Not necessarily the whole reason but part of it


The only available comparable data because we don’t play home finals, is comparing away matches from finals to home and away. We don’t have any apparent trouble with away sides who are decent. Our finals record is worse, though - I’d say we underperform in finals moreso than overachieve in home and away football. I’ve said before that probably one more grand final and a flag since 2011 would probably be a fair reflection of our general level over that time. I think most of our finals exits have been a reasonable reflection of our standing but you’d be hard pressed to say we’d played our best year on year in finals I can admit that
 

madmug

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The 'secret' to having sustained success, or getting good players to stay, is summed up in one word, CULTURE.

Essendon once had it, but not for years now.

Carlton lost it a long time ago, but are slowly getting it back.

North Melbourne had it, years ago.

Richmond finally found it after decades.

Hawthorn had/have it. They're certainly in a state of rebuilding at the moment, so time will tell.

Geelong have it.

Sydney have it.

Some clubs are developing it now. How good they get is still up for development & debate.
 

PJays

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- I’d say we underperform in finals moreso than overachieve in home and away football.
Perhaps, and the results suggest Geelong fares worse in finals at the G compared to the same H&A fixtures at the G, from earlier in the same seasons

But on the other hand, consider say, 2010 and 2019, where Geelong lost close QFs that ultimately cost them Grand Final appearances. Years Geelong could've or should've played in a GF. Id say those were years they missed the KP advantage they had during H&A
 

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Sttew

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The 'secret' to having sustained success, or getting good players to stay, is summed up in one word, CULTURE.

Essendon once had it, but not for years now.

Carlton lost it a long time ago, but are slowly getting it back.

North Melbourne had it, years ago.

Richmond finally found it after decades.

Hawthorn had/have it. They're certainly in a state of rebuilding at the moment, so time will tell.

Geelong have it.

Sydney have it.

Some clubs are developing it now. How good they get is still up for development & debate.
Spot on. And where does culture come from? The bottom, top and middle, i.e., everyone being on the same page. Don't underestimate what Brian Cook will achieve at Carlton, what he achieved at WCE and Geelong. It's why Essendon is an abject disaster, and why Sydney is a shining light.
 

99cents

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Same thing applies to Sydney, for stars that don't like the constant attention and limelight- Locket, Franklin, Martin?
 

Obeanie1

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"Unfair" is subjective in a competition where many teams have various types of advantages and disadvantages

Which ones are fair and unfair?

It definitely helps Geelong.

20 minutes from the Great Ocean Road. Lower cost of living and relaxed beach lifestyle. Or country lifestyle going inland.

Melbourne teams can't compete with that.

Of course, the quiet life isn't for everyone. But it's a nice niche that Geelong can effectively use as a selling point to many players

It is a natural advantage. Yes.

Unfair? No.

Swings and roundabouts.

Some players will want to live in Melbourne and not even consider Geelong.

Others will find Geelong more appealing than the big city lifestyle.

Cost of living lower so a plus.

Other clubs have natural advantages over others as well. Swings and roundabouts. Just have to roll with it.
 

Sttew

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What I think certain Melbourne based opposition supporters struggle with is that their clubs sold their souls, leaving their suburban grounds and making Marvel their playing ground. The AFL tried to force Geelong FC to do the same, but the hierarchy at Geelong, led by Brian Cook, recognised Geelong is not in Melbourne and refused to budge. I'm sure clubs like WB, St Kilda, Carlton, and North looked at Geelong standing firm and probably thought, "Did we sign up too quickly?"

I have no idea why a WCE supporter would be grumbling about Geelong's lifestyle factor giving the club an unfair advantage.

Geelong FC is THE only Victorian club that is immersed in a local community that lives and breathes football.
 

Jackington

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I think the A+ thing about this thread is that it was created by a West Coast fan who would absolutely not have won the 2018 premiership without Elliot Yeo, and had Tim Kelly demand to move there for two consecutive years.
 

kickazz

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Answer the question, give me some analysis. What do you think?

They've won 104 games from 115 in front of crowds at KP. How many fewer (if any) if played where all other Vic teams play?

How's this for analysis. 2020 we had only 3 games at KP, none with crowds. Won 2 of them. Played in the Grand Final.

The last time Geelong missed the finals, they won only 5 of 8 games at KP, including scraping home against a lowly Gold Coast.

So of course, Geelong play the ground conditions well and enjoy home ground support.

But they main reason they have a good record at KP is because they have a good record overall.
 

Ricketz

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I call it the 'Moggs Creek' factor. Players love to move to Geelong to 'get away from it all.' The big smoke isn't for everyone, which is why Geelong exists. Does this give them an unfair advantage when signing free agencies? It seems like the team is a hotspot for mature players that want that Dangerfield lifestyle for their families.

I think this has definitely helped Geelong stay competitive for so long. They've been able to top up with high-quality, mature FAs on the regular.
I don't know about unfair, but it's certainly an advantage - some of the best parts of Victoria are down the ocean road.

Bodes well for a Tassie team.
 

Ricketz

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Geelong's record at KP is 106-14 over the last 15 years.

That includes 2-3 during covid without crowds.

So the true record is 104-11.

90% win rate.

If Geelong played all their home games at MCG or Marvel, how many games would they have won?
If we played all our games at another team's home ground?

Geeze, the saltiness coming from clubs that signed their own independence away.
 

Ricketz

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What I think certain Melbourne based opposition supporters struggle with is that their clubs sold their souls, leaving their suburban grounds and making Marvel their playing ground. The AFL tried to force Geelong FC to do the same, but the hierarchy at Geelong, led by Brian Cook, recognised Geelong is not in Melbourne and refused to budge. I'm sure clubs like WB, St Kilda, Carlton, and North looked at Geelong standing firm and probably thought, "Did we sign up too quickly?"

I have no idea why a WCE supporter would be grumbling about Geelong's lifestyle factor giving the club an unfair advantage.

Geelong FC is THE only Victorian club that is immersed in a local community that lives and breathes football.
Exactly. The advantage we have was leadership that had foresight and strength.
 

Bostonian

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You obviously don't live in Geelong.

It's not the nice and cruisy place it once was.

Place is getting swamped by Melbourne mutts and the infrastructure can't handle it.

Can't wait to retire to get out of the place.
 

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