Does Gumby and Sylvia change the game plan at all?

couldhavebeen

Premiership Player
Joined
Jun 6, 2012
Posts
3,888
Likes
3,753
Location
success
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
Perth lyncs
#76
Ballas has a pretty fair record in Melbourne the MCG final against Geelong to name one
Clarke had a shocker in the GF and leaving him on would have given the Hawks an extra runner in the last and would have caused us more problems
De Boers mental state:confused: dont know what your'e talking about Coulda
Come on Salim De boer had a poor game against Sydney and was subbed in his 100 game ,not a lot to celebrate there so how was he going to go against the Hawks in the Grand final .
He's a nice guy but it was showing the strain in the Sydney game that he was struggling with the tempo \pressure.
I'm not blaming De boer ,Im looking at the Coaches and saying that he needed help and someone
IE :Sumich let us down IF he didn't talk to \ act on what was happening before the Grand Final or after the Sydney game , now I wasn't there and I assume somebody must have talked to him during the review of the game .
If there were any doubts then he should have been dropped or used as the sub .
Neales performance in the last quarter of the Sydney game showed his class and shone through line a beacon on the hill.:)

Ballas doesn't have a good record on the ROAD , have a look at his stats .

His performances at Subiaco are far better so again when it was going wrong for him Sumich as the forward coach should have read the signs that everyone else saw in the Grand Final could see and got in his ear and got him to settle .
If that meant sitting on the bench for 10 or 15 minutes and talking to him One on One then Suma or should have done it .

Clarke was struggling as well no argument .
With his role change to second ruck he was back to not knowing his role for the team IMHO so he just didn't fire , he will learn from that game .

Once again I'll repeat Pav in the last quarter was being double teamed and being the only tall in the forward line he needed help in the form of a big man to act as a block \buffer to create space for him to be able to take a mark and the only players available were Sandi and Clarke .
RTB had Sandi in the ruck and chose to sub Clarke for Neale to come on .
That decision meant that with Sandi doing the rucking Johnson, Mcpharlin or Dawson where the only players available to do that roll and we did nothing despite the fact that Lake was cutting out Pav and rebounding the ball back to hawthorns forward line .
De boer was struggling and so we needed to make a change sooner than later and Neale who was the sub should have come on and De boer should have gone off IMO .
In previous home and away game RBT subbed Suban when he wasn't playing well so as I say if you do it in a home and away game you can do it in Finals and just the week before he did it to De boer so why not again .


This is why I'm calling it a mistake by the coaching panel
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

couldhavebeen

Premiership Player
Joined
Jun 6, 2012
Posts
3,888
Likes
3,753
Location
success
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
Perth lyncs
#77
couldhavebeen makes an excellent case to prove the theory of the existence of the multiverse.

  • The multiverse (or meta-universe) is the hypothetical set of infinite or finite possible universes (including the historical universe we consistently experience) that together comprise everything that exists and can exist: the entirety of space, time,matter, and energy as well as the physical laws and constants that describe them
Given this hypothesis one can assume that he watches an alternate reality from another universe and then gets them mixed up with our own. ;):rainbow:
BULL S**t only lasts for so long then common sense must prevail .

Watch the game's again and make up your own mind .

I'm not the only one who has similar opinion of the games .

The problem is that some believe that RTB and his band of support coaches don't make mistakes but even RTB will admit to his mistakes .

What makes him one of the best is that he sees them and learns where poorer coaches blame every one else
 

salim malik

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Jan 14, 2008
Posts
11,999
Likes
23,865
Location
Paradise on Earth.
AFL Club
Fremantle
#78
Coulda to blame RTB for subbing of Clark and not De Boer and not getting in the ear of Ballas for our GF loss and disregard the poor disposal,poor goal accuracy , poor games of Mayne,Pearce, Duffield ,the umpires, swirling wind ,nerves,unfamilar with the G and the super unit that Hawthorn is sure drawing a long bow.We were beaten on the day by a better team,time to get over it and I'll see you next GF at the Great Northern:)
 

couldhavebeen

Premiership Player
Joined
Jun 6, 2012
Posts
3,888
Likes
3,753
Location
success
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
Perth lyncs
#79
Coulda to blame RTB for subbing of Clark and not De Boer and not getting in the ear of Ballas for our GF loss and disregard the poor disposal,poor goal accuracy , poor games of Mayne,Pearce, Duffield ,the umpires, swirling wind ,nerves,unfamilar with the G and the super unit that Hawthorn is sure drawing a long bow.We were beaten on the day by a better team,time to get over it and I'll see you next GF at the Great Northern:)
Great Northern ,Great Mems and Great company .
Salim did you notice that Hawthorn only played on the members wing when they had the ball going into attack.
I would like to hear from others that noticed this .
It makes a lot of sense when you think about it since the ground is a circle and not oval in shape .
 

freo84

Premiership Player
Joined
Jan 5, 2012
Posts
4,620
Likes
4,526
Location
Perth
AFL Club
Fremantle
#81
BULL S**t only lasts for so long then common sense must prevail .

Watch the game's again and make up your own mind .

I'm not the only one who has similar opinion of the games .

The problem is that some believe that RTB and his band of support coaches don't make mistakes but even RTB will admit to his mistakes .

What makes him one of the best is that he sees them and learns where poorer coaches blame every one else

I have watched the game several (painful) times and I agree with RTB subbing off Clark. He just wasn't doing anything and looked completely out of his depth.

Same amount of scoring shots as the Hawks, but there were about 5 set shots that went out of bounds. I would say that the game was there to be won it was pure execution of basic skills that lost the game not the subbing of Clark. Bailey came off so there was just no need for Clark to be on the ground as well.

Ross makes mistakes - eg the tagging of Matty Stokes instead of Stevie J in the 1st qtr of the Qualifying Final. But he normally would admit them at the end of the game. I haven't heard him say that he thought that the subbing of Clark was a mistake but if you can provide evidence that he did then I will gladly rescind my comments.
 

go_the_dockers

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Sep 11, 2008
Posts
8,700
Likes
5,264
Location
Adelaide
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
Man Utd
#82
I have watched the game several (painful) times and I agree with RTB subbing off Clark. He just wasn't doing anything and looked completely out of his depth.

Same amount of scoring shots as the Hawks, but there were about 5 set shots that went out of bounds. I would say that the game was there to be won it was pure execution of basic skills that lost the game not the subbing of Clark. Bailey came off so there was just no need for Clark to be on the ground as well.

Ross makes mistakes - eg the tagging of Matty Stokes instead of Stevie J in the 1st qtr of the Qualifying Final. But he normally would admit them at the end of the game. I haven't heard him say that he thought that the subbing of Clark was a mistake but if you can provide evidence that he did then I will gladly rescind my comments.
RTB would have loved a KPF who could play a good role along with Pav on the day, unfortunately Clarke was not quiet ready.

This is where Gumbleton and Thorp if we draft him, willl help us out.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

couldhavebeen

Premiership Player
Joined
Jun 6, 2012
Posts
3,888
Likes
3,753
Location
success
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
Perth lyncs
#88
The better team won on the day thats for sure .
The point I'm trying to make and that people maybe missing is that the Senior coach has assistants and they need to perform their job the same as the players .
With an in depth review assistant coaches didn't perform .
RTB and the selectors can only go on form and how his players are responding to the game plan.
The assistant that let RTB and the players down under his coaching was SUMICH IMHO.
His structures and players where not performing and he needed to make some changes \improvements .
The Sydney games first quarter and the GF first quarter showed us that there is a lot more work to be done and that Sumich had not got the job done .
As a reference point you only had to look at his results at West Coast scoring conversions when he was there
 

freo84

Premiership Player
Joined
Jan 5, 2012
Posts
4,620
Likes
4,526
Location
Perth
AFL Club
Fremantle
#89
The better team won on the day thats for sure .
The point I'm trying to make and that people maybe missing is that the Senior coach has assistants and they need to perform their job the same as the players .
With an in depth review assistant coaches didn't perform .
RTB and the selectors can only go on form and how his players are responding to the game plan.
The assistant that let RTB and the players down under his coaching was SUMICH IMHO.
His structures and players where not performing and he needed to make some changes \improvements .
The Sydney games first quarter and the GF first quarter showed us that there is a lot more work to be done and that Sumich had not got the job done .
As a reference point you only had to look at his results at West Coast scoring conversions when he was there

Players were nervous and didn't settle until the 3rd qtr. The coaches can only do so much before it is up to the players to perform. The structures didn't fail the players, the players failed the structures. Plus there were the same amount of scoring shots.
 

manpurple

Club Legend
Joined
Dec 5, 2012
Posts
1,481
Likes
1,024
AFL Club
Fremantle
#90
The better team won on the day thats for sure .
The point I'm trying to make and that people maybe missing is that the Senior coach has assistants and they need to perform their job the same as the players .
With an in depth review assistant coaches didn't perform .
RTB and the selectors can only go on form and how his players are responding to the game plan.
The assistant that let RTB and the players down under his coaching was SUMICH IMHO.
His structures and players where not performing and he needed to make some changes \improvements .
The Sydney games first quarter and the GF first quarter showed us that there is a lot more work to be done and that Sumich had not got the job done .
As a reference point you only had to look at his results at West Coast scoring conversions when he was there
I think that if you look at our forward line before and after the arrival of Sumich you would find that that is not really the case. Granted we have a ways to go but we are a much better forward line since his arrival. Mayne and Walters both vastly improved as a point in case. And even though we had no more tall options in the last two years than in 2011 we can all agree that at least it looks like a structure that can get us to a granny.
Alternatively look at what has transpired at the egirls since he's left. On balance I would say that he has been of immense benifit. I'm not sure he's head coach material but as a forward coach the runs are there.
 

Righteo

Purple Campaigner
Joined
Apr 7, 2010
Posts
30,328
Likes
33,758
Location
West
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
Celtics - The Brew Crew
#91
That's poor to blame Sumich IMO, has done well considering what he has to work with.
 

Fred Ziffel

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Apr 26, 2011
Posts
8,984
Likes
8,912
Location
Cockburn W.A
AFL Club
Fremantle
#93
That's poor to blame Sumich IMO, has done well considering what he has to work with.

The recruitment of Sylvia and Gumbleton should work beautifully for Suma. I wouldn't be surprised if Suma had been pushing very strongly for these two particular players.

The forward line has been remarkable for it's glaring void of another KPF size player.
The chance is definitely there now to increase Chris Mayne's output by 25 % alone. Pavlich, too should relish the added support by the Gumbleton inclusion.

For a team that made a Grand Final and knows precisely what went wrong in losing it, to go out and recruit exactly what is required to rectify the problem, within a month, shows the level of professionalism at Fremantle.

Sumich would seem to be the ideal coach to manage our forward line.
There is scope for an additional 80 goals a year in 2014.

and that would be my 3,000 th post.
 

couldhavebeen

Premiership Player
Joined
Jun 6, 2012
Posts
3,888
Likes
3,753
Location
success
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
Perth lyncs
#94
The recruitment of Sylvia and Gumbleton should work beautifully for Suma. I wouldn't be surprised if Suma had been pushing very strongly for these two particular players.

The forward line has been remarkable for it's glaring void of another KPF size player.
The chance is definitely there now to increase Chris Mayne's output by 25 % alone. Pavlich, too should relish the added support by the Gumbleton inclusion.

For a team that made a Grand Final and knows precisely what went wrong in losing it, to go out and recruit exactly what is required to rectify the problem within a month shows the level of professionalism at Fremantle.

Sumich would seem to be the ideal coach to manage our forward line.
There is scope for an additional 80 goals a year in 2014.

and that would be my 3,000 th post.
West coast forward line needed help as well and the number of points kicked had to reflect on Sumich .
The one very positive outcome in Sumich favour was the improved goal kicking of Mayne but success
with one player doesn't mean he is the best possible forward coach .
I hope he proves me wrong and the forward line really performs well which it should do with the experienced players we have recruited .
 

couldhavebeen

Premiership Player
Joined
Jun 6, 2012
Posts
3,888
Likes
3,753
Location
success
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
Perth lyncs
#95
Players were nervous and didn't settle until the 3rd qtr. The coaches can only do so much before it is up to the players to perform. The structures didn't fail the players, the players failed the structures. Plus there were the same amount of scoring shots.
The players would have learnt more from that 1 game than 3 years playing home and away footy
 

couldhavebeen

Premiership Player
Joined
Jun 6, 2012
Posts
3,888
Likes
3,753
Location
success
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
Perth lyncs
#97
Not sure what they would have learned other than "kick straight you bastards"
That pressure causes you to make poor judgement calls and gets you into trouble by making you reactive instead of proactive .

The best footballers thrive on pressure and use it as a positive force others react and just panic until they get an understanding of what's needed ,hence the term in the zone .

The SAS have rigours training of possible recruits to see how they react under extreme pressure .
Football clubs in the past have taken players to SAS training facilities to give them a taste of their training so that they can get an understanding of what is needed to become an elite soldier .
We should ask our no1 ticket holder if he can arrange a training session at Campbell barracks for the boys to have a go .
Now there's a challenge that will sort the boys from the men .
 

mike91

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Mar 13, 2011
Posts
7,953
Likes
9,725
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
Fremantle
#98
The better team won on the day thats for sure .
The point I'm trying to make and that people maybe missing is that the Senior coach has assistants and they need to perform their job the same as the players .
With an in depth review assistant coaches didn't perform .
RTB and the selectors can only go on form and how his players are responding to the game plan.
The assistant that let RTB and the players down under his coaching was SUMICH IMHO.
His structures and players where not performing and he needed to make some changes \improvements .
The Sydney games first quarter and the GF first quarter showed us that there is a lot more work to be done and that Sumich had not got the job done .
As a reference point you only had to look at his results at West Coast scoring conversions when he was there
I personally think our first quarter against Sydney was superb, only thing we did wrong was inaccurate goal kicking, everything else was first class.
 

mike91

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Mar 13, 2011
Posts
7,953
Likes
9,725
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
Fremantle
What was the score line for us in both finals in the first quarter or have you forgotten
In the words of Andrew Gaze, TURN IT UP! Did you even watch that first quarter or did you just look at the stats? We absolutely dominated that quarter. Inaccurate goal kicking isn't Sumich's fault, there's a little word called pressure and believe it or not it gets to players. Mayne was missing easy shots that night, but hey, that must be Sumich's fault. Let's get this straight, are you saying when our forwards miss goals, it's Sumich's fault? So when Mayne missed that goal against Essendon, it wasn't his fault, even though the ball was in his hands and left his boot, it was still somehow Sumich's fault?
 
Top Bottom