Does the Academy selections encourage tanking?

[Frank Grimes]

I was listening to Triple M and they were discussing Fremantle. James Brayshaw came up with a good point which I haven't thought much about. In summary of what he was talking about is Fremantle is going to have to make a decision if it's worth 'boxing on to 9th' or to play the kids for the rest of the year to see what they can do and ensure they get an early draft pick.

He said that if they tank the pick will actually be the pick where they finish on the ladder. If they 'box on' and get say pick 9 then that pick could end up being something like pick 12 or 15 with clubs using their academy selections. The academy selections may have had an unintended consequence for the AFL. The system appears to not only encourage tanking but effectively hinder those who chose to do the right thing and 'box on' and fight their way up the ladder.

 

[Van_Dyke]

It'll be no different than before in regards to having access to these players, under the old system; the only change is what pick they were 'drafted' at. E.g. rather than Mills going down as pick ~16, he'll go down pick 3 or whatever it was.

 

[Power Raid]

I was listening to Triple M and they were discussing Fremantle. James Brayshaw came up with a good point which I haven't thought much about. In summary of what he was talking about is Fremantle is going to have to make a decision if it's worth 'boxing on to 9th' or to play the kids for the rest of the year to see what they can do and ensure they get an early draft pick.

He said that if they tank the pick will actually be the pick where they finish on the ladder. If they 'box on' and get say pick 9 then that pick could end up being something like pick 12 or 15 with clubs using their academy selections. The academy selections may have had an unintended consequence for the AFL. The system appears to not only encourage tanking but effectively hinder those who chose to do the right thing and 'box on' and fight their way up the ladder.

I'm sure Ross will do what is best for the long term. He has the backing of the club with a long term contract

 

[RUNVS]

The talent pool will actually be better. Guys like Mills would not be in the competition without the academy so it means instead of the Swans drafting a Victorian we are drafting a New South Welshman who would not have otherwise of been drafted at all, so it makes the talent pool better for everyone.

 

[smeltitdeltit]

The talent pool will actually be better. Guys like Mills would not be in the competition without the academy so it means instead of the Swans drafting a Victorian we are drafting a New South Welshman who would not have otherwise of been drafted at all, so it makes the talent pool better for everyone.

And the fact that Isaac Heeny gets to Sydney for peanuts is just a nice consequence yeah? we should all be gratefull?
Swans Acadamy benefits us all, its just that some are benefitted more than others....

 

[Lach72]

As if we're going to have to tank.
Sandilands could be done for the year.
Fyfe IS done for the year.
Johnson and Ballantyne now injured.
We won't win a game for a fair while.
Our next 4 weeks suck arse.

But the whole academy system irks me

 

[Tas]

Freo would likely do better if they tank and play the kids instead of giving guys like Mzungu, Mayne and Suban games.

 

[RUNVS]

And the fact that Isaac Heeny gets to Sydney for peanuts is just a nice consequence yeah? we should all be gratefull?
Swans Acadamy benefits us all, its just that some are benefitted more than others....

The rules are different now than they were when Heeney was drafted.

 

[Kwality]

I was listening to Triple M and they were discussing Fremantle. James Brayshaw came up with a good point which I haven't thought much about. In summary of what he was talking about is Fremantle is going to have to make a decision if it's worth 'boxing on to 9th' or to play the kids for the rest of the year to see what they can do and ensure they get an early draft pick.

He said that if they tank the pick will actually be the pick where they finish on the ladder. If they 'box on' and get say pick 9 then that pick could end up being something like pick 12 or 15 with clubs using their academy selections. The academy selections may have had an unintended consequence for the AFL. The system appears to not only encourage tanking but effectively hinder those who chose to do the right thing and 'box on' and fight their way up the ladder.

Next thing will be a claim that growing your list is somehow cheating ... which Academy do you dream are the Dockers getting any form of priority on?
James Brayshaw you say,....

 

[Kwality]

I'm sure Ross will do what is best for the long term. He has the backing of the club with a long term contract

I'd back him to go the Sydney path rebuild.

 

[smeltitdeltit]

Next thing will be a claim that growing your list is somehow cheating ... which Academy do you dream are the Dockers getting any form of priority on?
James Brayshaw you say,....

Fremantle finishes last they get pick 1.
fremantle wins the flag they get in real terms 18 + the amount of acadamy and father son bids there are.. eg 5 acadamy and F/S = 18 +5= 23 essentially.
point is the higher you finish, the more diluted your pick is.

 

[Kwality]

Fremantle finishes last they get pick 1.
fremantle wins the flag they get in real terms 18 + the amount of acadamy and father son bids there are.. eg 5 acadamy and F/S = 18 +5= 23 essentially.
point is the higher you finish, the more diluted your pick is.

Always been that way yes/no? Is Freo somehow different because of the academies for the next draft?

 

[smeltitdeltit]

Always been that way yes/no? Is Freo somehow different because of the academies for the next draft?

always been that way yes. the whole point of the op was that academies dilute draft picks the higher you finish = more incentive to tank. therefore freo is better off tanking than finishing 9th (like a few teams) and the relatively new adition of acadamies only makes this more so.

 

[grouse mate]

Academy kids are not available regardless of what pick is used. All the points bidding system does is force the academy clubs to pay full price rather than get them at way unders. Brayshaw proving he is an idiot as most already know. Its actually a better system because the chances of other clubs getting access to these kids has increased.

 

[grouse mate]

always been that way yes. the whole point of the op was that academies dilute draft picks the higher you finish = more incentive to tank. therefore freo is better off tanking than finishing 9th (like a few teams) and the relatively new adition of acadamies only makes this more so.

It hasnt changed anything for non academy clubs. The talent pool available to them is exactly the same.

 

[Parolee]

Surely Carlton and Mebourne have proved that tanking creates a culture of failure and should be avoided at all costs?

 

[nurries]

Surely Carlton and Mebourne have proved that tanking creates a culture of failure and should be avoided at all costs?

We are not tanking we are just s**t

 

[grouse mate]

The talent pool will actually be better. Guys like Mills would not be in the competition without the academy so it means instead of the Swans drafting a Victorian we are drafting a New South Welshman who would not have otherwise of been drafted at all, so it makes the talent pool better for everyone.

Its also changed being able to pick up a kid like Heeney with a late 1st rnder and keep the rest of your picks. Brayshsw is so factually incorrect here it is crazy, and people will believe it.

 

[Tas]

I was listening to Triple M and they were discussing Fremantle. James Brayshaw came up with a good point which I haven't thought much about. In summary of what he was talking about is Fremantle is going to have to make a decision if it's worth 'boxing on to 9th' or to play the kids for the rest of the year to see what they can do and ensure they get an early draft pick.

He said that if they tank the pick will actually be the pick where they finish on the ladder. If they 'box on' and get say pick 9 then that pick could end up being something like pick 12 or 15 with clubs using their academy selections. The academy selections may have had an unintended consequence for the AFL. The system appears to not only encourage tanking but effectively hinder those who chose to do the right thing and 'box on' and fight their way up the ladder.

If you end up with pick 9 you still get a pick 9 type of calibre player that is available, those with academy picks and father son picks who are taken before your pick due to bidding you don't have access to them anyway.

 

[smeltitdeltit]

It hasnt changed anything for non academy clubs. The talent pool available to them is exactly the same.

Really? isaac heeny was available to Carlton was he?

 

[grouse mate]

Really? isaac heeny was available to Carlton was he?

Yor are completely missing the point of the OP.

 

[smeltitdeltit]

Yor are completely missing the point of the OP.

maybe, maybe not. you said the talent pool is exactly the same for the non acadamt clubs.
was heeney available to carlton?

 

[liz]

Really? isaac heeny was available to Carlton was he?

No. Under neither "system". Were it not for the academies, he'd probably be lining up for the Newcastle Knights.

 

[smeltitdeltit]

No. Under neither "system". Were it not for the academies, he'd probably be lining up for the Newcastle Knights.

"probably" doesnt cut it.
if Heeny kiccks the winning goal against hawthorn in the prelim final this year i can console myself with the fact if sydney didnt have him, nobody would??
at the end of the day in an adversarial competition with a draft, one team having access to a pool of players makes a mockery of the system. it is what it is but dont make out like its not an advantage . points system only alleviates it.

 

[grouse mate]

maybe, maybe not. you said the talent pool is exactly the same for the non acadamt clubs.
was heeney available to carlton?

Yep it is exactly the same. Exactly the same as F/S selections, exactly the same as the old scholarship programs that your club participated in quite actively.