Does the predictable umpires ball up add to congestion ?

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speedpeck23

All Australian
Jul 20, 2008
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Take a look after a stoppage. The ball goes up, easy for players to anticipate, set plays well constructed, no need for players to spread much as it is obvious where the ball is most likely to be. All add to congestion.

There should be no requirement for the umpire to create a "good" bounce....just make it hit the turf so it can potentially go anywhere just like it does in normal play all over the ground. Players would need to spread and if defending would need to tag the forward.

The ball up is a balls up of the essence of the game.
 

D-N-R

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Apr 4, 2005
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There are arguments both ways, IMO.

Whilst bouncing the ball may make the contest more unpredictable, setting up for the bounce takes more time than stepping in and tossing the ball up. The umpires have to try and get the bounce as equal as possible, even if they don't call it back when it doesn't come off, and doing this simply takes longer. If the ball can be thrown up immediately, the players have less time to set up and may help reduce congestion.

Another advantage of throwing the ball up is that the umpire has his head up all the time. They can keep a better eye on the holding and blocking around the ball up. As the ball goes up more predictably, the ruckmen also get a better chance at tapping it down to their player who can then clear the ball in set plays.

I feel that the game has taken a turn away from the rolling stoppages that marred the game in the early noughties, anyway. There has been an evolution in the way teams play to counteract the pressure tactics employed around ruck contests with quicker ball movement helping open the games up a bit more.

It will be interesting to see how the ban on 3rd man up will affect stoppages, if at all.

I'm not against bouncing the ball in the centre, when setting up for the bounce isn't really an issue. I think it is a great part of our game. I don't think that returning the bounce to other contests is necessarily a good move.
 

speedpeck23

All Australian
Jul 20, 2008
888
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Melbourne
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Hawthorn
There are arguments both ways, IMO.

Whilst bouncing the ball may make the contest more unpredictable, setting up for the bounce takes more time than stepping in and tossing the ball up. The umpires have to try and get the bounce as equal as possible, even if they don't call it back when it doesn't come off, and doing this simply takes longer. If the ball can be thrown up immediately, the players have less time to set up and may help reduce congestion.

Another advantage of throwing the ball up is that the umpire has his head up all the time. They can keep a better eye on the holding and blocking around the ball up. As the ball goes up more predictably, the ruckmen also get a better chance at tapping it down to their player who can then clear the ball in set plays.

I feel that the game has taken a turn away from the rolling stoppages that marred the game in the early noughties, anyway. There has been an evolution in the way teams play to counteract the pressure tactics employed around ruck contests with quicker ball movement helping open the games up a bit more.

It will be interesting to see how the ban on 3rd man up will affect stoppages, if at all.

I'm not against bouncing the ball in the centre, when setting up for the bounce isn't really an issue. I think it is a great part of our game. I don't think that returning the bounce to other contests is necessarily a good move.
Agree arguments go both ways, but I'm advocating that there is no need for the umpire to make the bounce as equal as possible....in fact that it's desirable to make the ball bounce totally randomly. Because it's harder to anticipate the bounce of the ball , gaining possession is more dependant on spreading and individual players reflex response than tactics which deliberately aim to block players run in a ball up.

The ball could be bounced as quickly as a ball up. There would be no need to have the third man up rule as the ball could go anywhere....every player around the bounce has a chance that the ball may come his/her way. Every time there is a stoppage in todays game blocking tactics predominate which feeds congestion.
 

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D-N-R

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Agree arguments go both ways, but I'm advocating that there is no need for the umpire to make the bounce as equal as possible....in fact that it's desirable to make the ball bounce totally randomly.
Not really. If there is a crowd of players around the ball and the umpire grabs the ball and throws it on the ground without setting himself properly, the ball is just as likely to hit one of the players and end up back on the ground with another ball up. It could look farcical at times. If the ruckmen get a better chance of putting the ball in a position that's advantageous to a team mate, teams can work on tactics and set plays to clear the ball quickly from the area, which is what we want. If the bounce becomes more uncertain the ruckmen become bystanders half the time and play becomes chaotic.

Throwing the ball up gives the rucks a chance more often than not and the players know where to run and move to. This kind of play typifies the best football we see now. Hawthorn raised the bar in this regard and other teams are copying - a few of them with former assistants to Clarkson. I think the game is heading in the right direction and we should wait and see.

Because it's harder to anticipate the bounce of the ball, gaining possession is more dependant on spreading and individual players reflex response than tactics which deliberately aim to block players run in a ball up.
Being unable to anticipate the bounce makes taking possession more difficult and would lead to sloppier play. Blocking and holding at stoppages is monitored pretty closely now and umpires can keep more of an eye on it if they throw the ball up. Blocking becomes legal once a player takes possession or the umpire calls play on. The quicker the umpire can get the game started again, the less chance of illegal blocking taking place and throwing the ball up is much quicker than bouncing it.

The ball could be bounced as quickly as a ball up. There would be no need to have the third man up rule as the ball could go anywhere....every player around the bounce has a chance that the ball may come his/her way. Every time there is a stoppage in todays game blocking tactics predominate which feeds congestion.
Bouncing the ball is quite stressful on the body and if it isn't done properly it could lead to injury. The umpires would have to take their time so they didn't get injured.
 

speedpeck23

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[QUOTE="D-N-R, post: 48915223, member: 16683" If there is a crowd of players around the ball and the umpire grabs the ball and throws it on the ground without setting himself properly, the ball is just as likely to hit one of the players .
Being unable to anticipate the bounce makes taking possession more difficult and would lead to sloppier play.
Bouncing the ball is quite stressful on the body and if it isn't done properly it could lead to injury. The umpires would have to take their time so they didn't get injured.[/QUOTE]


Maybe we just play with a round ball. Apologies for the sarcasm but I think the freedom of the bounce at a stoppage and in general play is a key factor in producing a free flowing game. Any rules that try to defy the natural bounce of the ball are counter to the essence of the game. Good to discuss though.
 
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kickazz

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Apr 12, 2010
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Take a look after a stoppage. The ball goes up, easy for players to anticipate, set plays well constructed, no need for players to spread much as it is obvious where the ball is most likely to be. All add to congestion.

There should be no requirement for the umpire to create a "good" bounce....just make it hit the turf so it can potentially go anywhere just like it does in normal play all over the ground. Players would need to spread and if defending would need to tag the forward.

The ball up is a balls up of the essence of the game.
Yep. You speak sense.

It's just that over time we collectively can't seem to handle the odd dodgy bounce
 

Jez1974

Team Captain
Oct 8, 2019
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Take a look after a stoppage. The ball goes up, easy for players to anticipate, set plays well constructed, no need for players to spread much as it is obvious where the ball is most likely to be. All add to congestion.

There should be no requirement for the umpire to create a "good" bounce....just make it hit the turf so it can potentially go anywhere just like it does in normal play all over the ground. Players would need to spread and if defending would need to tag the forward.

The ball up is a balls up of the essence of the game.
Just ball it up quickly as soon as the 3rd bloke goes in to tackle. A la 90s games
 

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