Analysis Does Venables remind anyone else of Judd?

Does Venables remind of you of Judd at points?

  • Yes

    Votes: 11 7.5%
  • No

    Votes: 73 49.7%
  • Sort of.

    Votes: 34 23.1%
  • Jack Watts

    Votes: 29 19.7%

  • Total voters
    147

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Watching him at the game Saturday, no doubt about his talent, he just doesn't know where to go to get the ball. Gets caught in no mans land, too close for proper lead, sort of waving hand as he jogs backwards yet not far enough away for kick behind play distance, positioning too close to pack for the spoils etc., not running past wide enough for the overlap. Junk time padded his stats (see Masten, Smith).
Should have picked it up a bit more by now, some guys can just get the ball, some can't.
 

flamingEMBERS

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He is only 20 years of age. I feel he should be rotating up around the ground more and on to the ball even and have some centre bounces. His hands are so clean. See if his production lifts that way.
 

The wily weagle

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I think part of the problem is that he's a mid, being played as a half forward. This has been tried with Redden and Sheed too and the experiment has been a failure.

We seem to have real difficulty with drafting mids, and playing them in the middle. We either draft a mid and expect them to play at half forward, or we draft a half back flanker and try to turn them into a mid.

The first "gimme" game we get I want to see Venebles played on the ball for a game so we can really see what he can do. He played on the ball far more in the JLT series and looked much better doing so.
 

DanWCE

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I think part of the problem is that he's a mid, being played as a half forward. This has been tried with Redden and Sheed too and the experiment has been a failure.

We seem to have real difficulty with drafting mids, and playing them in the middle. We either draft a mid and expect them to play at half forward, or we draft a half back flanker and try to turn them into a mid.

The first "gimme" game we get I want to see Venebles played on the ball for a game so we can really see what he can do. He played on the ball far more in the JLT series and looked much better doing so.
Is he though? He was a flanker in his junior years. The hope was he would transition into a mid.
 

flamingEMBERS

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Is he though? He was a flanker in his junior years. The hope was he would transition into a mid.
Or was he a flanker because there were other players who couldn’t play anywhere else or were better/higher rated than him as a mid. Or was it because he came back from Being injured?
 

HurleyHepsHird

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He was better with longer stints in the midfield during the JLT.

Regardless, HF disposal numbers would be down across the league. The new zones kill one of the major sources of HFF impact, which was as extra bodies flooding the midfield at or after centre bounces.

I imagine it would be a league wide thing, lower disposals and lower tackle numbers. Stacking your forwardline with mids will still have some benefit, as HF will need to do more running and you still have extra midfield rotations, but in other ways, actual specialist forwards may be preferable.
 

Max zero

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He was better with longer stints in the midfield during the JLT.

Regardless, HF disposal numbers would be down across the league. The new zones kill one of the major sources of HFF impact, which was as extra bodies flooding the midfield at or after centre bounces.

I imagine it would be a league wide thing, lower disposals and lower tackle numbers. Stacking your forwardline with mids will still have some benefit, as HF will need to do more running and you still have extra midfield rotations, but in other ways, actual specialist forwards may be preferable.
I do think that is a big part of the issue. He isn't capable of replacing our current top 6 mids due to ability (Yeo, Shuey, Sheed, Gaff) or role (Redden, Hutchings). Our forward line has 3 good smalls and 3 good talls. Venables fills neither of those roles.

With the potential trade in or Cogs or Kelly and the rise of youth (Petruccelle) he really needs to find his role soon.
 

HurleyHepsHird

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I do think that is a big part of the issue. He isn't capable of replacing our current top 6 mids due to ability (Yeo, Shuey, Sheed, Gaff) or role (Redden, Hutchings). Our forward line has 3 good smalls and 3 good talls. Venables fills neither of those roles.

With the potential trade in or Cogs or Kelly and the rise of youth (Petruccelle) he really needs to find his role soon.
It's hurting Ryan a little as well.

If you watch our matches from 2018, he was often the guy first to the stoppage from our forwardline or acted as the handover player if we were close checking a mid/HBF like Sidebottom. This allowed him to get up the ground a bit and be that high HF/wing link in the chain delivering into 50.

I wouldn't be surprised if quite a few of our forwards lose >2 disposals, an i50 and a tackle minimum off their average. It's going to be hard to be that >15 disposal, goal+ a game, 3+ tackle type that the best HFF typically were.
 

Max zero

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It's hurting Ryan a little as well.

If you watch our matches from 2018, he was often the guy first to the stoppage from our forwardline or acted as the handover player if we were close checking a mid/HBF like Sidebottom. This allowed him to get up the ground a bit and be that high HF/wing link in the chain delivering into 50.

I wouldn't be surprised if quite a few of our forwards lose >2 disposals, an i50 and a tackle minimum off their average. It's going to be hard to be that >15 disposal, goal+ a game, 3+ tackle type that the best HFF typically were.
Yeah 6-6-6 is really promoting dedicated roles. You centre clear setup needs absolute gun clearance players and be able to create quality i50s. Your defenders have to be comfortable in 1v1s and capable intercept marks. Your forwards need to have a real goal sense and not just resting midfielders.
 

The Stid

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Both Woosha and Carlton have had / do have Judd mentor young lads (Merrett and Setterfield), so why don’t we? Listening to Kerry on Coast To Coast talk about Judd being a forward as a junior and then coming to West Coast, Juddy taught himself how to find the footy. Imo we should be getting in touch with Judd to be a mentor to Venners.
 
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